Dispute at Pillings

[MtB]

I notice that no one picked up on the boats and how this is problem impacts on them!

 

I'm picking up on it now, as I have done in occasional past posts.

 

I know it's horribly distressing - I've been evicted from a residential mooring myself long ago - but your distress it has no bearing on the outcome. The lawyers, the law and the money men make no allowances, so it's only a peripheral issue when it come to understanding how this will all pan out. Hence the apparent lack of concern.

 

My concern and sympathy lies with you, but I fear expressing it just gets in the way of figuring out the eventual outcome. And isn't that what you want too? To know how it will resolve?

 

MtB

[jelunga]

Welcome to the forum Retired Lady Unfortunately threads such as this bring forth a plethora of brand new members who may or may not be aliases or buddies of the offending parties - hence the suspicion and mistrust. Please continue to post - and I wish you all the best - it must be a horrible place to be right now.

 

PS had friends who moored at Sawley, not 100% happy but it's a lot better than PL! Not sure whether they have vacancies at the moment though.

Yes Sawley still has lots of vacancies for leisure moorings. But they have got harder about liveaboards. They gave or will soon have a lot of new resi mooring approvals. Same facilities almost as leisure but loaded by about £1000 p.a. Last time J checked.

Their facilities are not bad. My main moans were based on them advertising stuff abd then not doing it. For example they advertised "extensive cctv coverage" this only covered the public area abd their offices and chandlery. Did not cover where most of the long term moorers were.

But staff were plentiful and helpful.

[Alan de Enfield]

Surely the 'gentlemanly' thing to do would be to have a whip round, with everyone giving Paul £1000, he could then pay C&RT

 

Oooops - stupid idea - you have done this once already and the debt is still outstanding.

[jelunga]

Duplicate so deleted

Edited January 25, 2014 by jelunga

[Gatesofrome]

so everyone claims the licence fees back and pays pauls debt ?this will be second time of giving paul the money.

CART then open the Marina to the system and you all have to get Licences ?s

I think this is a no brainer.

I was not thinking of it that way, I was more thinking that CRT would loose the same amount of money again if they block of the marina, if PLM do not pay them as well, how does this make business sense? Edited January 25, 2014 by Gatesofrome

[RLWP]

Thank you and welcome, RetiredLady for a most erudite and helpful posting.

I hope you find somewhere to moor more genial.

The same from me as well. Your report about the situation is very much appreciated

 

Richard

[MtB]

I was not thinking of it that way, I was more thinking that CRT would loose the same amount of money again if they block of the marina, if PLM do ot ay them as well, how does this make business sense?

 

It makes business sense because of the wider picture. CRT must prove to all other marina operators they cannot get away with stiffing CRT for the NAA fees.

 

MtB

[Mike Tee]

This idea of taking over the marina is certainly worth pursuing, but until it is known how the paper trail on the lease works out, and I don't think anybody does know, this could all come to a sticky halt. The Pillings Lock company runs the marina, and it looks like that will continue as a going concern. If the ultimate lease / land owner won't play with anybody other than Steadman / Lillie, or Pillings Lock marina company then it all stops.

However, if it did work, then is probably the best result for all concerned. I guess nobody will know until the assigned liquidator gets his /her hands on the paperwork.

[furnessvale]

I was not thinking of it that way, I was more thinking that CRT would loose the same amount of money again if they block of the marina, if PLM do not pay them as well, how does this make business sense?

By sending a strong message to all the other marina owners who are closely following this saga?

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

(The only trouble with this group is that posts come in that fast, by the time you have typed, 6 other people have given the same answer:-)

Edited January 25, 2014 by furnessvale

[Gatesofrome]

It makes business sense because of the wider picture. CRT must prove to all other marina operators they cannot get away with stiffing CRT for the NAA fees.

 

MtB

True, had not thought of that :-)

[nb Innisfree]

 

It makes business sense because of the wider picture. CRT must prove to all other marina operators they cannot get away with stiffing CRT for the NAA fees.

 

MtB

It would in fact be a sensible investment for CRT.

[nicknorman]

It would be interesting to know the state of play with other marina operators, ie are they up to date with their NAA payments, or are they in arrears but just less so than PLM.

[Gatesofrome]

This idea of taking over the marina is certainly worth pursuing, but until it is known how the paper trail on the lease works out, and I don't think anybody does know, this could all come to a sticky halt. The Pillings Lock company runs the marina, and it looks like that will continue as a going concern. If the ultimate lease / land owner won't play with anybody other than Steadman / Lillie, or Pillings Lock marina company then it all stops.

However, if it did work, then is probably the best result for all concerned. I guess nobody will know until the assigned liquidator gets his /her hands on the paperwork.

Thnak for the advice, i guess we will just have to watch this space and see gow it pans out. All I can say is what a mess, rummer has it, already the moorers are looking into getting licence fees back, who knows what will happen now

[MtB]

Looking on the bright side, for Gatesofrome in particular, gazing into the future in my crystal ball with new batteries fitted I cannot imagine Pilling Lock Marina remaining piled off from the canal network 12 months from now.

 

All that investment will not be allowed to go to waste. A solution will be found.

 

MtB

[Graham Davis]

I was not thinking of it that way, I was more thinking that CRT would loose the same amount of money again if they block of the marina, if PLM do not pay them as well, how does this make business sense?

1/ Are there really enough licence holders in the Marina who pay £180,000 per year to CaRT?

2/ Remember that in the first year of PL paying the NAA he does not pay anything, and in the second year he only was supposed to pay 50%. Only in the third year did he have to pay the full annual amount, so that was a nice little "earner" for him. CaRT have been the biggest financial losers in this, not PL or any of his other companies.

[RLWP]

Thnak for the advice, i guess we will just have to watch this space and see gow it pans out. All I can say is what a mess, rummer has it, already the moorers are looking into getting licence fees back, who knows what will happen now

Presumably, they can't get their license fee back until the boat is removed from CRT waters i.e. After the marina is disconnected

 

Richard

[MtB]

1/ Are there really enough licence holders in the Marina who pay £180,000 per year to CaRT?

2/ Remember that in the first year of PL paying the NAA he does not pay anything, and in the second year he only was supposed to pay 50%. Only in the third year did he have to pay the full annual amount, so that was a nice little "earner" for him. CaRT have been the biggest financial losers in this, not PL or any of his other companies.

 

It's £180k of accumulated debt since the marina began in 2007 (IIRC). Since it opened not a penny of NAA fees have been paid - - - Alledgedly*

 

MtB

Edited January 25, 2014 by Grace & Favour
A single word added*

[Gatesofrome]

I'm picking up on it now, as I have done in occasional past posts.

 

I know it's horribly distressing - I've been evicted from a residential mooring myself long ago - but your distress it has no bearing on the outcome. The lawyers, the law and the money men make no allowances, so it's only a peripheral issue when it come to understanding how this will all pan out. Hence the apparent lack of concern.

 

My concern and sympathy lies with you, but I fear expressing it just gets in the way of figuring out the eventual outcome. And isn't that what you want too? To know how it will resolve?

 

MtB

Sorry to hear you had the experience as well, i do empathise with you. What sort of society can not see the effect the MONEY people have on the individual's who have to suffer, it is pants!

Presumably, they can't get their license fee back until the boat is removed from CRT waters i.e. After the marina is disconnected

Richard

I have not got a clue, just the latest update here!

[gaggle]

Thnak for the advice, i guess we will just have to watch this space and see gow it pans out. All I can say is what a mess, rummer has it, already the moorers are looking into getting licence fees back, who knows what will happen now

What will happen now ? stuck in marina "mud patch" with no way out , maybe a crane can get you out the mud and onto a wagon and put you back on water someplace else and then you can renew the licence ,get out while you can.

[Gatesofrome]

It's £180k of accumulated debt since the marina began in 2007 (IIRC). Since it opened not a penny of NAA fees have been paid. - - Alledgedly*

 

MtB

 

Now I only know a little bit , and his was from the meeting, it seems that there has been some payments, if I remember rightly, we were told £45000 and he ows £16000, I think that was the figue anyway.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Grace & Favour
*Word added

[MtB]

Sorry to hear you had the experience as well, i do empathise with you. What sort of society can not see the effect the MONEY people have on the individual's who have to suffer, it is pants!

 

The best one can do is to learn from the experience. Try to anticipate the potential for these things to happen and avoid getting yourself in the position in the first place.

 

Too late for that in this dispute, but think carefully about the long term. What are you going to do to stop this happening to you again? Learn to be streetwise and head these things off next time. E.g. don't moor in a marina run by a bloke who has only contempt for his moorers, as a first suggestion....

 

The thing is, expressions of empathy don't really help. Or maybe they do....?

 

MtB

[Stilllearning]

It would be interesting to know the state of play with other marina operators, ie are they up to date with their NAA payments, or are they in arrears but just less so than PLM.

Now that would be very interesting indeed.

[Mike Todd]

 

Another point of order m'ud...

 

The 'moorings leaseholders' are nothing of the sort. They are 'car parking space leaseholders', with the benefit of an undefined mooring space too, as I understand it. The car parking spaces are 'estates in land' (provided the leases were drawn up correctly and registered at the LR) so are secure despite the liquidation of the landlord. The status of the associated mooring spaces is much more doubtful.

 

MtB

I have wondered about the LR aspect as that entails Stamp Duty which is not cheap. Has it really been paid?

[Gatesofrome]

What will happen now ? stuck in marina "mud patch" with no way out , maybe a crane can get you out the mud and onto a wagon and put you back on water someplace else and then you can renew the licence ,get out while you can.

If we all leave, then the company will deffinalty not be able to survive? It is one option. Again, the impact this will have in the waterways of, I think about 300 boats coming out together would certainly hit the head lines "300 boats block up British cannals" :-)

[Mike Todd]

I think there is no easy answer, if the fees had been paid to CRT this would have stopped all this distress. I understand the problem Paul had with this is the CRT were in negotiation with him but then just stopped the process and took the action they have now. I have just worked out that if we all got blocked in and claimed our licence fees back it would potentially amount to the debt owed to CRT. So do we all stand together and fight this? Or leave?

 

It is easy for people to judge the moorers here who have been here , some of them for years, this is where their community links have been built and they are being told to leave. Community is so important for support and trust, as we all know. I think that perhaps we should fight this as CRT have the monopoly and we can not even go to another company, ther is no competition so they can charge what they like.

 

We traveled last year some distance and the cannals were badly maintained we struggled with over grown trees and grounded a number of time due to lack of dredging, what do CRT do for the money we pay any way?

It is not as simple as setting the NAA charges against the mooring fees at PLM. What is at risk is the total of all NAA charges from all current and future marinas. If this one gets away with it, why should any others pay?