Dispute at Pillings

[MtB]

in response to many previous comments, yes there are stop planks (or were) on site, the entrance has the facility to replace them (earlier I stated I removed them to fill the basin in March 2007), pl has 8.6% approx. shares in all companies, plus a loan deal with the steadmans (who the last I heard, live in London and keep well in touch with goings on at plm) that, as long as he keeps up the repayments, entitles him to a further 16.3% approx.

Are you following this?'cos I will be asking questions later!

With regard to any future developments, I would be delighted to help all I can to sort out this mess.

 

I wonder if you might be the ideal person to help the moorers form a consortium and put forward an attractive offer to the liqudators...

 

MtB

[Paul G2]

 

One key thing that i don't think has been mentioned yet in all this 'recovery plan' discussion is the attitude of the majority shareholders who i believe are some people called the Steadmans. I think they are the shareholders of QMH and i suspect therefore that the freehold ownership rests with them.

 

I think any rescue plan would need them onside to be credible long term. But from what JLillie says earlier they appear to be enthusiastic about the management abilities of PLillie.

And of course, being the effective maj shareholders of QMP; they will be the ones putting the company into CVL

 

My understanding about the Steadman's is the same as yours.

 

I have read in this thread, and I think it was from John Lillie (not really sure), that the Steadmans are fairly wealthy and that the marina is kind of a sideline to them. People like that, as a rule, do not like to have their reputations tarnished by ne'er-do-wells like Paul Lillie. Unless P.Lillie has some kind Svengali relationship with the Steadmans, you would think they would be glad to be rid of him. If they do have a close personal relationship with him, they might even yearn for a court order removing him from their business affairs.

 

Keep in mind, too, that there is the possibility, however slight, that the Steadmans could be sanctioned and that they could be precluded from holding directorships and that tends to put a serious crimp in the lifestyle and often the income of people like the Steadmans.

[sueb]

The local council have a problem with throwing residential boaters out as all you say is well if I cannot live on my boat what accommodation do you have for me as I am homeless.

But you can live on your boat. Just not in that marina. I don't believe the council will help unless it offers b&b accommodation.

Edited January 25, 2014 by sueb

[SoosieQ]

I wonder if you might be the ideal person to help the moorers form a consortium and put forward an attractive offer to the liqudators...

 

MtB

Excellent idea....but hasnt John said hes banned from the site for some time? Maybe he can run the group at a distance

And create a new management team

[MtB]

 

Keep in mind, too, that there is the possibility, however slight, that the Steadmans could be sanctioned and that they could be precluded from holding directorships and that tends to put a serious crimp in the lifestyle and often the income of people like the Steadmans.

 

Indeed, and for this reason they might yet still write out a cheque to CRT in an attempt to clear this mess up, although I think it is too late for that now. The fan has finally been hit.

 

Maybe this time, they've had enough of being used as a resource have decided to draw a line...

 

MtB

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[RLWP]

And no you can't have your soap box back!!

 

 

Carry on, you are doing fine

 

Richard

[stickleback]

 

Excellent idea....but hasnt John said hes banned from the site for some time? Maybe he can run the group at a distance

And create a new management team[/quote

 

But will such a ban be relevant after they've been liquidated?

[LoneWolf]

 

I don't think that's right - I think it's the directors who do that - who ever that may be...

 

 

http://uk.practicallaw.com/7-502-2748?service=dispute

 

"A company goes into CVL if its members pass a special resolution for its winding up, with a majority of at least 75%"

 

ooh and this is interesting too (from the same link)

 

"When a company goes into CVL, the directors' powers automatically cease, except so far as the company's creditors sanction their continuance (section 103, IA 1986 )."

[johnlillie]

yes we are barred from the site or contact with the directors/customers of plm, but I tend to think that after that rant where he referred me to Afghanistan, all bets are off, so maybe I can do what I please with impunity.

[carpet wallah]

Is all the stuff about long leases and who owns what down to a certain amount of supposition?

As far as I can make out, the freehold of the marina is with QMP and NOT QMH.

Mr Steadman has mortgages over all of the 3 involved companies, but in respect of QMH and and PLM it only refers to shares, dividends etc. The mortgage over QMP is specifically over "The Site of Pillings Lock Marina, Flesh Hovel ........ Leicestershire, registered under title numbers LT101348 and LT76019".

If I'm correct, it may change some of the scenarios that are being dreamed up on here.

I assume Mr Steadman will be the preferential creditor by virtue of his legal charge on a fixed asset, well in front of CRT.

I imagine that the asset will have to be realised by the liquidator and CRT any other creditors paid after Mr Steadman has got his invested money back. Unless, of course, I've got it all wrong.............

[Pigeon eye]

 

Carry on, you are doing fine

 

Richard

To hell with the Sheriff, get me a rope, we're going to have a hangin!! Tee haaaaa

[johnlillie]

oh, and the steadmans are/were very wealthy, when they offered to put up the mortgage to buy the site, they acted as though it was small potatoes!

[LoneWolf]

You type faster than me!

 

 

From the bits and pieces of liquidation law and business law that have been posted here, it appears the Paul Lillie could be held personally liable for damages. It would not be unreasonable then for the liquidator, or whoever makes those kind of decisions, to make him surrender his interest in QMH as settlement.

 

I'm not convinced (by what's been posted here) that there is a case for wrongful trading. One would have to see the accounts & other info to make any judgement on that.

How long ago was the court case where the £180k debt was decided? i cant remember

 

 

Indeed, and for this reason they might yet still write out a cheque to CRT in an attempt to clear this mess up, although I think it is too late for that now. The fan has finally been hit.

 

Maybe this time, they've had enough of being used as a resource have decided to draw a line...

 

MtB

 

I dont think it is too late (yet) - 3rd Feb it will be though

[Thorfast]

yes we are barred from the site or contact with the directors/customers of plm, but I tend to think that after that rant where he referred me to Afghanistan, all bets are off, so maybe I can do what I please with impunity.

 

Barred how? Legally, or just told to pi$$ off.

[Stilllearning]

Is all the stuff about long leases and who owns what down to a certain amount of supposition?

As far as I can make out, the freehold of the marina is with QMP and NOT QMH.

Mr Steadman has mortgages over all of the 3 involved companies, but in respect of QMH and and PLM it only refers to shares, dividends etc. The mortgage over QMP is specifically over "The Site of Pillings Lock Marina, Flesh Hovel ........ Leicestershire, registered under title numbers LT101348 and LT76019".

If I'm correct, it may change some of the scenarios that are being dreamed up on here.

I assume Mr Steadman will be the preferential creditor by virtue of his legal charge on a fixed asset, well in front of CRT.

I imagine that the asset will have to be realised by the liquidator and CRT any other creditors paid after Mr Steadman has got his invested money back. Unless, of course, I've got it all wrong.............

Yes the Steadmans do appear to be the great big unknown quantity in all this.

While it is fun and interesting to speculate as we all are doing, it seems likely that none of us will know much more until the liquidator's meeting.

[SoosieQ]

yes we are barred from the site or contact with the directors/customers of plm, but I tend to think that after that rant where he referred me to Afghanistan, all bets are off, so maybe I can do what I please with impunity.

And im confident you would receive a great deal of backing

Excellent idea....but hasnt John said hes banned from the site for some time? Maybe he can run the group at a distance

And create a new management team[/quote

 

But will such a ban be relevant after they've been liquidated?

 

 

 

Not sure....i suppose it depends if its the liquidated company that barred him or one of the others?

[MtB]

 

I'm not convinced (by what's been posted here) that there is a case for wrongful trading. One would have to see the accounts & other info to make any judgement on that.

How long ago was the court case where the £180k debt was decided? i cant remember

 

 

I dont think it is too late (yet) - 3rd Feb it will be though

 

I meant it's too late for a cheque from the Steadmans to save the NAA being revoked. CRT have had enough of being jerked around by Lillie and have decided it is going to stop being a marina. There's no going back on that, it's done.

 

They 'might' change their minds with someone else at the helm.

 

MtB

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Pigeon eye]

yes we are barred from the site or contact with the directors/customers of plm, but I tend to think that after that rant where he referred me to Afghanistan, all bets are off, so maybe I can do what I please with impunity.

I've got a couple of "Exocets"going cheap!

[LoneWolf]

 

I meant it's too late for a cheque from the Steadmans to save the NAA being revoked. CRT have had enough of being jerked around by Lillie and have decided it is going to stop being a marina. There's no going back on that, it's done.

 

They 'might' change their minds with someone else at the helm.

 

MtB

 

yes, that's what i meant.

 

Come 3rd feb the steadmans could throw up their hands in dismay at what their trusted manager has been up to and vote not to go into CVL but to inject some cash into the business instead. Pay CaRT what they owe it and sign a new NAA

 

I have some new spectacles can you tell what colour they are?

[johnlillie]

^{barred as part of the settlement to get our own money back, the second time was what is known in legal circles as a tomlin agreement, which came in to force when he the lost the case over the £7k he owed me, it came into force in June 2010. By the way, instead of paying me, which he ended up having to do, his legal costs exceeded £8.5k, so the whole episode cost him, including court fee of £800, over £16k. And this is just one of many cases he has contested and lost,so that's probably where most of the profits went}

[MtB]

 

yes, that's what i meant.

 

Come 3rd feb the steadmans could throw up their hands in dismay at what their trusted manager has been up to and vote not to go into CVL but to inject some cash into the business instead. Pay CaRT what they owe it and sign a new NAA

 

I doubt CRT sign a new NAA with the same company that goaded them so badly they revoked the existing one. It's possible I suppose if the terms were right, like paying off all the existing debt and lodging a further sum as security against future missed payments.

 

What would probably happen though is the new money would land in the bank account and Mr Lillie would use it to buy himself another Maserati.

 

MtB

[Pigeon eye]

^{barred as part of the settlement to get our own money back, the second time was what is known in legal circles as a tomlin agreement, which came in to force when he the lost the case over the £7k he owed me, it came into force in June 2010. By the way, instead of paying me, which he ended up having to do, his legal costs exceeded £8.5k, so the whole episode cost him, including court fee of £800, over £16k. And this is just one of many cases he has contested and lost,so that's probably where most of the profits went}

How very true John.

He must have spent thousands of the boat owners money in court, sooner or later it has to stop though.

And yes you would make an excellent person to help form a new consortium.

You are fair and hard working and have forgotten more about boating than most of us know.

We all know that PLM could and should have been a gold mine if it had been run correctly and honestly

[LoneWolf]

 

I doubt CRT sign a new NAA with the same company that goaded them so badly they revoked the existing one. It's possible I suppose if the terms were right, like paying off all the existing debt and lodging a further sum as security against future missed payments.

 

What would probably happen though is the new money would land in the bank account and Mr Lillie would use it to buy himself another Maserati.

 

MtB

 

Well CaRT should make their decisions on whats best for the waterways and be pragmatic about the future in my opinion

 

It's a very unlikely scenario though as you said.

 

now why would someone want two Maseratii?

[Stilllearning]

Mrs Stilllearning is having great fun, researching on www.companiesintheuk.co.uk and coming up with all sorts of info on P Lillie's business dealings. All in the public domain too.

[Midnight Rider]

 

I doubt CRT sign a new NAA with the same company that goaded them so badly they revoked the existing one. It's possible I suppose if the terms were right, like paying off all the existing debt and lodging a further sum as security against future missed payments.

 

What would probably happen though is the new money would land in the bank account and Mr Lillie would use it to buy himself another Maserati.

 

MtB

Is it not part of PL's cunning plan that CaRT cannot refuse the new company an agreement?

 

I find the shadowy Steadmans involvement strange. Unless they have things tied up so that they can't lose, why aren't they more high profile & trying to sort things out?