New Hep20 plumbing fittings

[David Schweizer]

As I may need to make a minor alteration to the plumbing on Helvetia in the near future, I visited my local plumbing merchant this morning, only to discover that the grey Hep20 screwed fixings are no longer available, and have been replaced by a new type, which looks the same as those produced by every other manufacturer.

 

I know that Hep20 plumbing is not universally popular, but it has always been a firm favorite for boat fitters, probably because of it's easy ability to be dismantled and altered when neccessary. Admittedly the later versions with plastic grab rings were not compatible with the earlier metal grab ring types, but each type was compatible with the several styles within the two grab ring types, and they could all be dismantled easily by unscrewing the fitting.

 

The new type is not comptible with anything, and cannot be disassembled without the small special tool which will almost certainly be impossible to find when it is needed. I wonder why Hepworths (or should I now call them Wavin as they seem to have bought out Hepwroths) have decided to produce a clone of the competition rather than maint their own unique identity.

 

The local merchant has already run out of the older type and the local Chandlery only has a few 22mm fittings left. At the moment most fittings can still be found on eBay etc, but how long before it becomes impossible to maintain an older Acorn/Hep20 system?

 

And they call it Progress!!!

Edited January 3, 2013 by David Schweizer

[celiaken]

As I may need to make a minor alteration to the plumbing on Helvetia in the near future, I visited my local plumbing merchant this morning, only to discover that the grey Hep20 screwed fixings are no longer available, and have been replaced by a new type, which looks the same as those produced by every other manufacturer.

 

I know that Hep20 plumbing is not universally popular, but it has always been a firm favorite for boat fitters, probably because of it's easy ability to be dismantled and altered when neccessary. Admittedly the later versions with plastic grab rings were not compatible with the earlier metal grab ring types, but each type was compatible with the several styles within the two grab ring types, and they could all be dismantled easily by unscrewing the fitting.

 

The new type is not comptible with anything, and cannot be disassembled without the small special tool which will almost certainly be impossible to find when it is needed. I wonder why Hepworths (or should I now call them Wavin as they seem to have bought out Hepwroths) have decided to produce a clone of the competition rather than maint their own unique identity.

 

The local merchant has already run out of the older type and the local Chandlery only has a few 22mm fittings left. At the moment most fittings can still be found on eBay etc, but how long before it becomes impossible to maintain an older Acorn/Hep20 system?

 

And they call it Progress!!!

My heating system was built using the grey 22m pipe and fittings, had one leak at a joint and was able to undo the grey t piece but could not cure the leak. The replacement white fitting was all I could buy, but after installation the fitting leaked within its own moulding. this could not be cured so all was taken apart again and the fitting was replaced by the plumbers merchant, who said that this was not the first one he has returned.

[Higgs]

I like Hep2o, too. It may be to reduce manufacturing costs. Fewer parts, less plastic, trade preference?

[Theo]

The most recent Hep2O fittings that I have bought were white and rather slimmer than the old grey ones. They have the advantage that, with a special and cheap tool, they are fully removeable. Dismanling the grey ones allowed you to undo the joint but you couldn't remove the grab ring without cutting the pipe and sliding the ring off the newly cut end. I must say that I find the new ones rather better.

 

Nick

[Nine of Hearts]

...but you couldn't remove the grab ring without cutting the pipe and sliding the ring off the newly cut end.

 

You give up too easily. I've prised grab rings off on both the old and new versions. Pipe gets scratched a bit, but I've not had any leaks.

[dor]

Didn't Hepworths buy out one of their competitors? Perhaps they are now making both types on the same machines.

[dmr]

I believe the new fittings will fit the old pipe and vice versa.

The new fittings are less chunky and white so should look better in a house, and also because you can't take them to bits you can't leave any bits out (a couple of the grey ones on our boat were missing the grab ring).

A tool was really required to remove the old ones too (to get the grab ring off) so I suppose the new ones are better in every way.

But I still prefer the old ones, they look more functional and boaty!

 

........Dave

[Higgs]

Bet you've all left the odd insert out and had to strip a joint or two after emptying the system again.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Higgs

[GUMPY]

However the new fittings retain the sleeve when you take them off a piece of pipe, makes transvfering them from plastic to copper pipe interesting.

Screwfix do an old hep20 clone in grey, or at least they did a month ago.

[alan_fincher]

Dismanling the grey ones allowed you to undo the joint but you couldn't remove the grab ring without cutting the pipe and sliding the ring off the newly cut end.

You are describing the old type grey ones, (where incidentally you never needed to cut the pipe, because if you were prepared to sacrifice the metal grab ring, it was possible to nip them off with a pair of cutters, leaving the pipe fine for reuse at its current length).

 

The latter style grey ones used instead a green plastic grab ring, with metal teeth inset in them, which are fully demountable and reusable with a cheap tool.

 

That said, some preferred the design of the earlier grey ones, because in the demountable type the sealing O-ring lies beyond the grip ring as you insert the pipe, so you are potentially trying to get it to seal against pipe that may have had its outside scored up as it passed through the grab ring. That said, I have never had a problem with any kind of leaks from either of those grey types.

 

I'm not familiar with the latest white product, but it will be a shame if it becomes difficult to get spares for the"grey" fittings.

[jonathanA]

good riddance I say - totally unconvinced about fittings that need a special tool and if you read the instructions require you buy a new 'fitting kit' (grab ring and bits) each time you assemble/disassemble which are never as available as the fittings. sounds to me like Hepworths/Wavin are just catching up with the rest of market such as John Guest, floplas etc... all of whom I would use in preference to Hep20 speaking as a DIYer, but thats my opinion and I fully respect other peoples right to have a different one...

[David Schweizer]

good riddance I say - totally unconvinced about fittings that need a special tool and if you read the instructions require you buy a new 'fitting kit' (grab ring and bits) each time you assemble/disassemble which are never as available as the fittings. sounds to me like Hepworths/Wavin are just catching up with the rest of market such as John Guest, floplas etc... all of whom I would use in preference to Hep20 speaking as a DIYer, but thats my opinion and I fully respect other peoples right to have a different one...

Would you care to explain, as your statement makes no sense ( well at least not to me). Good riddance to what? the old type?, or the new type? as it is only the latest incarnation that requires a tool to dismantle.

 

The old type of fitting did not need any sort of tool to dismantle it and did not need a new fitting kit to re assemble it unless you were not going to use the pipe at the same length,as you merely used the old screw ring to attatch the new fitting. if you required a diffeent length, you cut the pipe to the length required and pushed all the components backwards to release them. If you did have to remove the grab ring using cutters as suggested by Alan, new ones were readily available as a spare.

 

I agree with your suggestion that the latest version is merely copying the competition, none of which I personally like for reasons already explained in my OP., and which is why I am upset about the change. Fortunately I have a good stock of spare rings and washers which should see me out, and quite a few spare fittings, although very few of the later plastic grab ring type.

Edited January 3, 2013 by David Schweizer

[andywatson]

I have used speedfit and am currently using both types of Hep2o.

My thoughts are:

 

The grab ring remover for the old system costs pence as does the release tool for the new fittings so cost is not an issue.

Speedfit doesn't need a remover but ideally you need to buy collets which stop accidental release on one version - another version has a twistlock.

(I use a cable tie if it's critical and I don't have collets handy)

 

The new Hep system has one big disadvantage over the old one where the fitting can be split.

To get the fitting release tool onto the fitting you need about 15mm for exposed pipe stuck out of the fitting.

 

If you have a fitting close to another eg on a calorifier tapping or immediately after a bulkhead you cannot get the release tool on.

I will need to trash a fitting for this very reason.

 

I have managed to release a fitting by pressing the release ring with 2 small screwdrivers diametrically opposite each other.

You need 3 hands though.

 

Of course the fact that new Hep fittings don't come apart means they can hardly be opened for a look then put back wrongly and fail by stealth. It does happen.

Edited January 3, 2013 by andywatson

[bag 'o' bones]

There are 80,000 + licensed premises in the UK. A large percentage of them serving draught beer. Beer dispense systems are required to carry liquids, gas and compressed air depending on the set-up. They are all plumbed in John Guest.

[n.b.Goldie]

There are 80,000 + licensed premises in the UK. A large percentage of them serving draught beer. Beer dispense systems are required to carry liquids, gas and compressed air depending on the set-up. They are all plumbed in John Guest.

 

Another vote for John Guest.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[the grinch]

and another vote AGAINST speedshite seen too many failed fittings and similar with Hep2poo

 

personally I have found polyplumb and plumbfast far better for longevity.

[nicknorman]

and another vote AGAINST speedshite seen too many failed fittings and similar with Hep2poo

 

personally I have found polyplumb and plumbfast far better for longevity.

Failed in what way exactly? Moulding split? Pipes pulled out? Just leaking a bit? Frost rupture?

[the grinch]

discolouration followed by crumbling of fitting usually followed by water everywhere!! thats speedshite

grip rings failing is a regular proplem with hep poo.

[bizzard]

Extraordinary.

[nicknorman]

discolouration followed by crumbling of fitting usually followed by water everywhere!! thats speedshite

grip rings failing is a regular proplem with hep poo.

Do you think the discolouration is eg caused by UV degradation, contamination from solvents, fuel etc, or just ageing in a benign environment? Or too high a temperature?

[David Schweizer]

and another vote AGAINST speedshite seen too many failed fittings and similar with Hep2poo

personally I have found polyplumb and plumbfast far better for longevity.

If you trawl the plumbing forums, there are several reports of the plastic grip rings on the later type of Hep20 fittings disintegrtating and leaking. Whether the probem is due to poor fitting or the material failing is not clear, but it is a known fault, which is probabluy why they have returned to all metal grip rings in the latest incarnation, which in my experience do not fail.

[AndrewIC]

When the new style white Hep2o came out I got a 15mm "sample pack" direct from the manufacturer for free, which included one elbow, about 6in of pipe, and, importantly, the new blue dismantling tool. No idea whether that offer is still on though, I think there was a website to request the pack.

 

I seem also to recall that the grey Hep2o came in two versions with plastic grab rings - green and white, but I could be making this up... There was a plastic tool available to remove the grab ring from the pipe, but with care it would be done by hand or with a bit old card rolled round the pipe. The new style seems overly complex.

[bizzard]

Maybe Polyplumb is more tolerant to bad workmanship.

I've always found on boats at any rate that with whatever make of plastic pipe systems and mixtures 'of' are used, apart from frost damage failures are almost always caused by bad fitting workmanship. Pipes not cut accurately to length and badly cut, pipes forced at angles into fittings possibly causing leaks or cracked fittings because of stress. Failures are almost always stress related!!! STRESS!!!!!!! bad workmanship, Botched!!. In my lowly experience and opinion anyway.

[bowten]

Maybe Polyplumb is more tolerant to bad workmanship.

I've always found on boats at any rate that with whatever make of plastic pipe systems and mixtures 'of' are used, apart from frost damage failures are almost always caused by bad fitting workmanship. Pipes not cut accurately to length and badly cut, pipes forced at angles into fittings possibly causing leaks or cracked fittings because of stress. Failures are almost always stress related!!! STRESS!!!!!!! bad workmanship, Botched!!. In my lowly experience and opinion anyway.

And you would be right bizzard.

[bizzard]

And you would be right bizzard.