Proposed Marina Onley

[Tuscan]

I am backing it on the strength that I dont see any valid reasons to object to it

 

Meadowland is a natural habitat, of course, but its not rare, there is plenty of it left all round and to a certain extent every little bit of grass is a natural habitat.

 

And its not exactly like we are alking about building a shopping centre is it?

 

The commercially motivated opposition to the marina, on the other hand, makes me want to actively support it... especially when said commercially motivated operators take to the media in the name of boaters to denounce congestions etc.

 

that really grates me!

 

 

 

I can't see a real reason to object, competition will either drive price down or facilities up . If all the boats in the existing marinas all came out at the same time there would be grid lock but we all know this doesn't happen. I don't lke the vested interest of the opponents .

[carlt]

Meadowland is a natural habitat, of course, but its not rare, there is plenty of it left all round

Really?

 

Meadowland is disappearing rapidly as any land that is "economically unviable" for agriculture, in Northants, gets a distribution shed built on it or a dirty great hole dug to store boats.

 

As farming methods develop more and more meadowland is turned over to arable to try to squeeze the last drop of subsidy out.

 

What isn't rare is brownfield land, of which there is plenty canalside, where a marina would be beneficial to the environment.

[Djuwenda]

but the vast majority of the proposed site is over land thats in agriculural use?

[David Mack]

What isn't rare is brownfield land, of which there is plenty canalside, where a marina would be beneficial to the environment.

 

OK Carl, just to put you on the spot.

 

Can you give us a few examples of brownfield land alongside the canal, of shape/size suitable for marina development, and in an area where there is likely to be sufficient demand for mooring at a price which would make the marina development commercially viable?

[RLWP]

That marina that has been approved up by Hawkesbury junction is brown field

 

Richard

[scrumpylurcher]

I can't see a real reason to object, competition will either drive price down or facilities up . If all the boats in the existing marinas all came out at the same time there would be grid lock but we all know this doesn't happen. I don't lke the vested interest of the opponents .

 

Would this be similar to the argument put forward for bigger and better supermarkets and out of town shopping.

[Tuscan]

Would this be similar to the argument put forward for bigger and better supermarkets and out of town shopping.

 

 

No idea

[Graham and Jo]

There is a new application in for a 200 berth marina nearby. It is on the Hillmorton side of Normans Bridge on the towpath side. See DA/2012/0743 on the Daventry planning system. Hopefully this is a pdf of the plan. Cheers Graham

Edited October 31, 2012 by Graham and Jo

[Ally]

Did any one else read the letter in towpath talk, from the manager of a certain marina on the Soar about this (who I believe was at the 'demonstration' probably)........

..and did anyone else see the 'alternative view' letter suggesting a big new marina could be built on the Soar, and that competition is a good thing? Classic.

What some marina's don't 'get' is, other local marinas to them are full, many with waiting lists, yet they wonder why they are half empty.........could there be a story there?

Edited October 31, 2012 by Ally

[churchward]

Really?

 

Meadowland is disappearing rapidly as any land that is "economically unviable" for agriculture, in Northants, gets a distribution shed built on it or a dirty great hole dug to store boats.

 

As farming methods develop more and more meadowland is turned over to arable to try to squeeze the last drop of subsidy out.

 

What isn't rare is brownfield land, of which there is plenty canalside, where a marina would be beneficial to the environment.

It would be good to use more brownfield land. The excuse often is that it is more expensive to use it but it would be good for authorities to encourage it more and use greenfield less.

[Ray T]

Daventry District Council have given planning aproval for the marina at Onley.

 

????? I can't wait to see marina prices come down?????

Edited November 1, 2012 by Ray T

[Tuscan]

Daventry District Council have given planning aproval for the marina at Onley.

 

????? I can't wait to see marina prices come down?????

 

 

 

 

 

Be interesting if ths one , Barby and Hawkesbury get built to see what happens to pricing. If marina pricing comes down will CRT bring down on line mooring reserve pricing or just remove them.

[boathunter]

Let me guess. Remove them.

They seem to have a policy of over-pricing. My guess is this is so they can then say after a couple of years they're not needed and clear up the canal sides. I am a cynic though.

[MtB]

Daventry District Council have given planning aproval for the marina at Onley.

 

????? I can't wait to see marina prices come down?????

 

This seems INSANE, when viewed in conjunction with all the other the new marina capacity currently being built and/or planned.

 

I think it's an overhang from a few years ago when new boats were flooding onto the cut (if that's an appropriate term). My estimate is that the likes of Liverpool boats et al, along with a myriad smaller and bespoke builders were between them launching maybe 30 new boats a week for all the years of the housing boom, and a large proportion of new boats were funded by housing equity withdrawal/profit taking. This lead to massive take-up of marina space and entrepreneurs all over the place saw this and started drawing up plans for new marinas.

 

Now the property market has slumped, the torrent of new-build boats has stemmed, but the financial commitment and timescales involved in drawing up the plans means it still makes sense to follow through and make the applications. How many more will get built is anyone's guess. Probably lots of businessmen look at Braunston, Wigrams etc and simply add up X hundreds of empty boats each paying £2.5k a year for tying to a pontoon and think "Yes I'll have some of THAT please!", whilst failing to appreciate that the supply of new boats has recently dried up.

 

The other POV is that these PP applicants foresee the recession ending soon, the housing market kicking off again, and a new batch of builders starting up and filling up all this new marina capacity. I can imagine that happening. Big commercial risk though, building a marina, and having it sit there virtually empty for a few years while we all wait for a new wave of wealth to fund the next boom in narrowboat building....

 

In addition, I wonder how many of these new berths will end up being 'off-the-radar' residential once the dust has settled, and how many will remain rigidly enforced leisure only.

 

And yes I can imagine BW taking away a large chunk of online moorings, about which I'm ambivalent. Miles of boats moored online ARE a bloody nuisance when you're in a hurry to get somewhere

 

I think it's time to add up some figures. let's do a list of the new capacity built or planned since, say, when Liverpool Boats going to the wall. I'll have a bash to start it off:

 

Barby 150? (150 boats being my estimate, probably wrong!)

Hawkesbury 300?

Cropredy 300?

Onley 500?

Hilmorton 200

Droitwich Spa 250

 

I think there are more I've left out. This can only mean downward pressure on mooring costs in the near and medium term. Also a Good Thing in my view. Seeing the list, now wonder Posh Tim is running scared.

 

Mike

[Tuscan]

This seems INSANE, when viewed in conjunction with all the other the new marina capacity currently being built and/or planned.

 

I think it's an overhang from a few years ago when new boats were flooding onto the cut (if that's an appropriate term). My estimate is that the likes of Liverpool boats et al, along with a myriad smaller and bespoke builders were between them launching maybe 30 new boats a week for all the years of the housing boom, and a large proportion of new boats were funded by housing equity withdrawal/profit taking. This lead to massive take-up of marina space and entrepreneurs all over the place saw this and started drawing up plans for new marinas.

 

Now the property market has slumped, the torrent of new-build boats has stemmed, but the financial commitment and timescales involved in drawing up the plans means it still makes sense to follow through and make the applications. How many more will get built is anyone's guess. Probably lots of businessmen look at Braunston, Wigrams etc and simply add up X hundreds of empty boats each paying £2.5k a year for tying to a pontoon and think "Yes I'll have some of THAT please!", whilst failing to appreciate that the supply of new boats has recently dried up.

 

The other POV is that these PP applicants foresee the recession ending soon, the housing market kicking off again, and a new batch of builders starting up and filling up all this new marina capacity. I can imagine that happening. Big commercial risk though, building a marina, and having it sit there virtually empty for a few years while we all wait for a new wave of wealth to fund the next boom in narrowboat building....

 

In addition, I wonder how many of these new berths will end up being 'off-the-radar' residential once the dust has settled, and how many will remain rigidly enforced leisure only.

 

And yes I can imagine BW taking away a large chunk of online moorings, about which I'm ambivalent. Miles of boats moored online ARE a bloody nuisance when you're in a hurry to get somewhere

 

I think it's time to add up some figures. let's do a list of the new capacity built or planned since, say, when Liverpool Boats going to the wall. I'll have a bash to start it off:

 

Barby 150? (150 boats being my estimate, probably wrong!)

Hawkesbury 300?

Cropredy 300?

Onley 500?

Hilmorton 200

Droitwich Spa 250

 

I think there are more I've left out. This can only mean downward pressure on mooring costs in the near and medium term. Also a Good Thing in my view. Seeing the list, now wonder Posh Tim is running scared.

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

Kilworth on Leicster section approved earlier this year 150? My mooring has just gone up for next year !!

[matty40s]

Kilworth on Leicster section approved earlier this year 150? My mooring has just gone up for next year !!

 

......well they do have to spend more on advertising to attract the new customers.......

[GUMPY]

Kilworth on Leicster section approved earlier this year 150? My mooring has just gone up for next year !!

That must hurt after the years of mooring with Mickey.

[Ronniesonic]

This seems INSANE, when viewed in conjunction with all the other the new marina capacity currently being built and/or planned.

 

I think it's an overhang from a few years ago when new boats were flooding onto the cut (if that's an appropriate term). My estimate is that the likes of Liverpool boats et al, along with a myriad smaller and bespoke builders were between them launching maybe 30 new boats a week for all the years of the housing boom, and a large proportion of new boats were funded by housing equity withdrawal/profit taking. This lead to massive take-up of marina space and entrepreneurs all over the place saw this and started drawing up plans for new marinas.

 

Now the property market has slumped, the torrent of new-build boats has stemmed, but the financial commitment and timescales involved in drawing up the plans means it still makes sense to follow through and make the applications. How many more will get built is anyone's guess. Probably lots of businessmen look at Braunston, Wigrams etc and simply add up X hundreds of empty boats each paying £2.5k a year for tying to a pontoon and think "Yes I'll have some of THAT please!", whilst failing to appreciate that the supply of new boats has recently dried up.

 

The other POV is that these PP applicants foresee the recession ending soon, the housing market kicking off again, and a new batch of builders starting up and filling up all this new marina capacity. I can imagine that happening. Big commercial risk though, building a marina, and having it sit there virtually empty for a few years while we all wait for a new wave of wealth to fund the next boom in narrowboat building....

 

In addition, I wonder how many of these new berths will end up being 'off-the-radar' residential once the dust has settled, and how many will remain rigidly enforced leisure only.

 

And yes I can imagine BW taking away a large chunk of online moorings, about which I'm ambivalent. Miles of boats moored online ARE a bloody nuisance when you're in a hurry to get somewhere

 

I think it's time to add up some figures. let's do a list of the new capacity built or planned since, say, when Liverpool Boats going to the wall. I'll have a bash to start it off:

 

Barby 150? (150 boats being my estimate, probably wrong!)

Hawkesbury 300?

Cropredy 300?

Onley 500?

Hilmorton 200

Droitwich Spa 250

 

I think there are more I've left out. This can only mean downward pressure on mooring costs in the near and medium term. Also a Good Thing in my view. Seeing the list, now wonder Posh Tim is running scared.

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike- Hawkesbury actually 2x applications in. The one on the redundant Golf Course on the Cov side awaiting final approval, the other on the Oxford side still in early stages, so potentially even more berths.

 

Putting to one side the 'market forces' will prevail argument, I agree with what you say wholeheartedly. Assuming all planned apps get the go ahead there will be Marina's go belly up as there are not enough boats to fill the berths even at reduced rates. Therefore, what happens to the derelict Marina's?

 

Look at Barby. Friendly Mr McMaster couldn't even afford to build the bloody thing let alone fill it!

 

Or, will there come a time in the near future where nearly all of the online moorings are got rid of & people have to keep there boat in a Marina?

Those remaining being tied into leases etc.

 

I hope C&RT act wisely.

[boathunter]

I think that's the natural progression ... at which point it will be "somebody else" responsible for stopping people living aboard and CART will get their way while avoiding the flack...

[Dominic M]

Hi Mike- Hawkesbury actually 2x applications in. The one on the redundant Golf Course on the Cov side awaiting final approval, the other on the Oxford side still in early stages, so potentially even more berths.

 

Putting to one side the 'market forces' will prevail argument, I agree with what you say wholeheartedly. Assuming all planned apps get the go ahead there will be Marina's go belly up as there are not enough boats to fill the berths even at reduced rates. Therefore, what happens to the derelict Marina's?

 

Look at Barby. Friendly Mr McMaster couldn't even afford to build the bloody thing let alone fill it!

 

Or, will there come a time in the near future where nearly all of the online moorings are got rid of & people have to keep there boat in a Marina?

Those remaining being tied into leases etc.

 

I hope C&RT act wisely.

My first thought is who would invest in building a marina in that area today? Most existing marinas within a 15 mile radius of Braunston are unable to fill all their spaces. The proposed one at Hillmorton originally gained planning consent in 2008. The owners have had to reapply to extend the permission as the original consent was about to expire and nothing had happened, because they couldn't (or didn't) raise the money to build it.

 

A similar boom occurred with golf courses a decade or more ago. Farmers, encouraged to diversify, were sold the idea of building 18 holers where previously there had been something pointless like a dairy herd, or wheat or barley. Nowadays you can get amazingly cheap deals I am told by golfers, because there are many more golf courses than there are sufficient people wanting to play on them. So what will happen when some of these marinas go belly up? Perhaps European and Regional Funding will be made available to encourage hapless marina owners to diversify into, let me see, ooh, perhaps farming. Yup, 70 million people, they need to eat.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Therefore, what happens to the derelict Marina's?

 

<snip>

 

they become valuable reservoirs of water for the rest of the system

 

Richard

[MtB]

they become valuable reservoirs of water for the rest of the system

 

Richard

 

Or they become 'nature reserves' and boat movements are banned/limited for fear of disturbing the 'nature'.

 

Something like this appears to have already happened at Froud's bridge on the K&A. The inner basin is only available to moorers who don't plan to actually take their boats in and out of the marina, apparently, as it disturbs the wildlife! I had to double check it wasn't 1st April when I was told this...

 

Mike

[Djuwenda]

I like all these options...

 

marina underused, some or all of it is returned to wildlife, and still acts as a reservoir to help water levels.

 

underused and sold off at a lower price, maybe a chance for boating clubs to be created, set up a little club house and create a nice atmoshpere for a group of people, think earslon motoryachting club type of thing...

 

marina being sucessful, again dont have a poblem with that, if people have set up heir business plan correctly, worked hard and invested money, all I can hope is thy see a return for their work ad risk.

 

A big hole in the ground isnt realy that much of a problem, I like water. If its not used it become marshland, I like that too...