Can you hand pump waste??

[Nickhlx]

I like the term "Inconsiderate Floater".... sort of sums it up perfectly !

 

Nick

[Naughty Cal]

It is the amount at one time that is the problem for me. I had to wait 20 mins at the Elsan at Anderton while some inconsiderate boater used his self pumpout.

 

Would you have had a different view if say 10 people where queing to use the elsan with cassettes in hand?

[alan_fincher]

Would you have had a different view if say 10 people where queing to use the elsan with cassettes in hand?

I suppose the difference is that what Cotswoldman says is something that actually happens, whereas as your hypothetical situation never does.

 

I can get worked up about things that do happen, but tend not to bother about things I know never will - like "what happens if the QE2 beats you to the water point?"

[barge sara]

I can afford a pumpout which is why I bought a pumpout kit. More boats are coming onto the system it is about time BW provided some more facilities. Has anyone found facilities locked so only moorers can use them?

Sue

 

Given that we are plunging into a period of major public sector cuts, any expectation that public money will be spent on new sanitary facilities for a handful (comparatively) of boaters, is doomed to disapointment.

 

I really would expect no new infrastructure over the next few years unless you are prepared to pay for it.

[nb Innisfree]

I don't see why P/O users should be treated any different to cassette users. If free P/O points can't be supplied why should free Elsan points be any different? Why not have a card system same as P/Os? They could be set to provide usage for, say, £1 to equal a P/O. That way P/O users aren't subsidising cassette users, seems quite fair to me.

[barge sara]

I don't see why P/O users should be treated any different to cassette users. If free P/O points can't be supplied why should free Elsan points be any different? Why not have a card system same as P/Os? They could be set to provide usage for, say, £1 to equal a P/O. That way P/O users aren't subsidising cassette users, seems quite fair to me.

 

Defintely fair, but would probably have the same effect as charging for refuse disposal - fly tipped elsan contents....

[Naughty Cal]

Defintely fair, but would probably have the same effect as charging for refuse disposal - fly tipped elsan contents....

 

Has the charge on pump out users resulted in fly tipping pump out contents?

[nb Innisfree]

Defintely fair, but would probably have the same effect as charging for refuse disposal - fly tipped elsan contents....

 

True but the same could be said for self P/Os ?

[frangar]

It is the amount at one time that is the problem for me. I had to wait 20 mins at the Elsan at Anderton while some inconsiderate boater used his self pumpout.

 

As I said in my earlier post we always stop, clean the sluice down and let anyone who is waiting to empty a cassette do so.....Although Anderton has a self op pump out machine like all the other BW owned self pumpouts it never seems to work....

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Artimis]

By law, a landlord must supply sanitary facilities and it must be included in the rent amount, not an additional cost.

If BW are locking certain points or not providing for the needs of pumpouts, this must be a breach of the law

 

Why should pump out pay when casettes dont?

 

Its no good claiming elsans deposit less in the sewer because they empty more often. Overall the contents quantity will be the same for both types, so why should a self pump out pay to empty and why should they be restricted?

[alan_fincher]

Overall the contents quantity will be the same for both types,....................

 

Actually, being pedantic, I'd say "Not true".

 

Cassette toilets are generally designed to use far less flush water per using than that used by a typical loo attached to a pump-out system.

 

Maybe not in every case, but I'd say that a typical pump-out installation has to dispose of far more (albeit more dilute) effluent for the same amount of "usage".

 

(So by inference the storage tanks on "Elsan" facilities that are not connected to a sewer, and have to be emptied by tanker, are more likely to fill up quickly if the sewage in them originates from boats that use more flush water).

Edited June 11, 2010 by alan_fincher

[WotEver]

By law, a landlord must supply sanitary facilities and it must be included in the rent amount, not an additional cost.

If BW are locking certain points or not providing for the needs of pumpouts, this must be a breach of the law

Why? BW are not my landlord. I own my own boat, I don't rent it off BW.

 

Tony

[Artimis]

Why? BW are not my landlord. I own my own boat, I don't rent it off BW.

 

Tony

 

BW charge you to use the waterway though. For that, they should provide equal access to sanitation facilities

[carlt]

BW charge you to use the waterway though. For that, they should provide equal access to sanitation facilities

They do. If you choose to have the added luxury of an enhanced toilet system that isn't compatible with the basic facilities provided, then you need to pay extra.

 

Everybody can use the bucket and chuck it facilities provided. It is a matter of personal choice, if you choose to use a system that requires an enhanced service.

[Artimis]

They do. If you choose to have the added luxury of an enhanced toilet system that isn't compatible with the basic facilities provided, then you need to pay extra.

 

Everybody can use the bucket and chuck it facilities provided. It is a matter of personal choice, if you choose to use a system that requires an enhanced service.

 

 

Once upon a time, there was a council run refuse tip and eventually it became full and had to close. It was an informal place where anyone could take their house or garden rubbish and it was open from 7am till 6pm every day.

 

When it closed, a new high tech sorting depot was opened many miles away, with so many jobs worth managers strutting round in flashy coats and hard hats, telling people what they couldnt tip anymore and making life hard for all.

 

Soon the hedge rows, lanes and gateways were filling up with fly tipped rubbish and even rats were becoming more numerous.

The 'letters to the editor' section of the local paper was full of questions as to why all the fly tipping was happening.

 

It certainly doesnt take a blind man on a galloping horse to see whats going on. Just simple cause and effect.

[carlt]

Once upon a time, there was a council run refuse tip and eventually it became full and had to close. It was an informal place where anyone could take their house or garden rubbish and it was open from 7am till 6pm every day.

 

When it closed, a new high tech sorting depot was opened many miles away, with so many jobs worth managers strutting round in flashy coats and hard hats, telling people what they couldnt tip anymore and making life hard for all.

 

Soon the hedge rows, lanes and gateways were filling up with fly tipped rubbish and even rats were becoming more numerous.

The 'letters to the editor' section of the local paper was full of questions as to why all the fly tipping was happening.

 

It certainly doesnt take a blind man on a galloping horse to see whats going on. Just simple cause and effect.

Can't see the relevance.

 

Fly tipping is a perennial problem that has been much reduced, now that councils are actually encouraging people to use public recycling depots.

 

Are you suggesting that landfill is preferable to recycling?

 

I, personally, know of one incidence of someone pumping their shit tank out into a BW dumb barge but I would guess that the ocurrence is far rarer than fly tipping, even though the enhanced self-pumpout facilities suggested do not exist. Surely we'd already be on the slippery slope, you seem to be alluding to?

Edited June 11, 2010 by carlt

[cotswoldsman]

BW charge you to use the waterway though. For that, they should provide equal access to sanitation facilities

 

In that case someone who has a permanent mooring and never moves should not have to pay for a licence or certainly not the part to cover maintenance of locks. When you buy your boat you have the choice of pump out or casette in the knowledge that BW provide in the main facilities for cassettes. At least you are agreeing that the facilities are only meant for cassettes.

[nb Innisfree]

Can't see the relevance.

 

Fly tipping is a perennial problem that has been much reduced, now that councils are actually encouraging people to use public recycling depots.

 

Are you suggesting that landfill is preferable to recycling?

 

I, personally, know of one incidence of someone pumping their shit tank out into a BW dumb barge but I would guess that the ocurrence is far rarer than fly tipping, even though the enhanced self-pumpout facilities suggested do not exist. Surely we'd already be on the slippery slope, you seem to be alluding to?

 

[Artimis]

In that case someone who has a permanent mooring and never moves should not have to pay for a licence or certainly not the part to cover maintenance of locks. When you buy your boat you have the choice of pump out or casette in the knowledge that BW provide in the main facilities for cassettes. At least you are agreeing that the facilities are only meant for cassettes.

 

No because a moored boat is still using the water. But to install facilities that only cater for part of the community seems like stupidity to me.

[carlt]

But to install facilities that only cater for part of the community seems like stupidity to me.

They should replace all the narrow locks with wide ones immediately! (Bangs fist on table, for added dramatic effect).

[Naughty Cal]

They should replace all the narrow locks with wide ones immediately! (Bangs fist on table, for added dramatic effect).

 

I agree, where do i sign up?

[cotswoldsman]

No because a moored boat is still using the water. But to install facilities that only cater for part of the community seems like stupidity to me.

 

I can't get my boat down the Huddersfield Canal they should lengthen all the locks actually they should lengthen the canl locks so that 70ft boats can use all the system they pay for.

[frangar]

As this thread proves everything thats wrong about web forums......I'm off to actually cruise my boat!!!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

(Oh and heaven forbid my engine smokes a bit as well.....but I suppose others want that banned as well....)

[Natalie Graham]

But then why did BWB first install Elsan disposal points? If people chose to have a different system than a galvanised bucket and an entrenching tool then it was up to them to find somewhere suitable to empty it and it was not BWB's responsibility to provide them with facilities to empty their new-fangled chemical toilets.

[magpie patrick]

But then why did BWB first install Elsan disposal points? If people chose to have a different system than a galvanised bucket and an entrenching tool then it was up to them to find somewhere suitable to empty it and it was not BWB's responsibility to provide them with facilities to empty their new-fangled chemical toilets.

 

I don't know but Elsan poinst have been around a long time, the origonal Nicholsons in 1971 list their locations. I recall early hire boats where the loo was basically a bucket with a loo seat, but blue was still used. Dad usually found an elsan point although on one holiday we were off the beaten track on the air and calder and couldn't.

 

I think it was part of the move to get rid of sea toilets from canals