Pump out

[BeninReading]

Afternoon all,

 

I tried to pump out by toilet tank at the weekend (with two children on board) and without much success (to cries of 'the poo machine has broken'!!). I suspect that there was a blockage in the suction pipe (I was using a dodgy BW one) - maybe because my girlfriend uses lots of loo paper (yes, I use the poor quality stuff) and doesn't drink enough!. I am considering buying a self-pump out machine (cheaper in the long run, more reliable etc). I have the following questions for my immediate dilemma and for the longer term:

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

 

Once again,

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and help.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

[Bullfrog]

Afternoon all,

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

 

Try commas instead

 

David

[CJR]

Afternoon all,

 

I tried to pump out by toilet tank at the weekend (with two children on board) and without much success (to cries of 'the poo machine has broken'!!). I suspect that there was a blockage in the suction pipe (I was using a dodgy BW one) - maybe because my girlfriend uses lots of loo paper (yes, I use the poor quality stuff) and doesn't drink enough!. I am considering buying a self-pump out machine (cheaper in the long run, more reliable etc). I have the following questions for my immediate dilemma and for the longer term:

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

 

Once again,

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and help.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

 

 

Hi Ben

We have a self pump out which is nearly a neccesity here as 'proper' pump outs are sometimes few and far between. Hubby is out at the mo, so will come back to you later with our details...he is becoming a bit of an expert on poo topics! (see other thread on General Boating 'one job ...' - don't know how to put the link in!)

[Guest wanted]

No idea about self pump outs, but you should find lots of advice on pump outs using the search (some of it is even useful )

 

we had a problem with our tank clogging up but all is now, er, free! (Alan's advice worked for us, Bio marine)

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27183

[mayalld]

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

 

Fit a cassette loo instead.

 

{sits in comfy chair with bag of popcorn}

[blackrose]

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

Some of the new biological additives are pretty good. (Odorloss, etc.)

 

 

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

I used to have a manually operated self-pump out kit - bloody horrible things they are too! I really didn't like having to store exposed shit hoses and no matter how much you rinse the gear out it drips diluted shit all over the place when you're putting it away and it stinks. But then I don't like pump out toilets partly for the reasons you describe, which is why I got a cassette on my second boat. Just a personal opinion though.

 

You also need to bear in mind where you are pumping out to. Self-pump outs are prohibited at lots of elsan points.

Edited February 15, 2010 by blackrose

[luctor et emergo]

Why do it yourself, if you can let somebody else do it for you?

 

 

If the boat passes the survey, I'm hoping to be up and running on the K&A in about a month or so (paper work and red tape pemitting).

 

[Bill]

Ben,

 

I have a self pump out and the following tale may be of use. Where I am (Chelmer & Blackwater) there used to be few facilities for pump out so I bought one of the hand pump jobbies from Lee Sanitation (not cheap).

 

As my holding tank is close to 100 gals you soon end up with arms like popeye. I use bio-magic in the holding tank and it breaks down the loo paper and other stuff to a very thin slurry (I have a mascerator loo). Looking at what was being sucked out the tank (via the sight glass) there did not seem to be much in the way of large solids (all small stuff).

 

So I decided to modify the pump and add a small petrol semi trash pump (which can easily shift 100 + litres a minute) after the hand pump.

 

Now I just connect the hoses, use the hand pump to prime the suction side, start the motor, a couple of minutes later all is empty. Works like a charm. The hand pump and semi trash are all mounted on a board with quick release fittings for the suction and discharge hoses so it is easy to store. Due to the nature of the Lee sanitation hand pump the suction keeps the valves open whilst the other pump does its stuff so there is no need for bypasses or anything.

 

Works for me.

 

Bill

[alan_fincher]

so I bought one of the hand pump jobbies from Lee Sanitation (not cheap).

What a great name for it!

[RLWP]

Afternoon all,

 

I tried to pump out by toilet tank at the weekend (with two children on board) and without much success (to cries of 'the poo machine has broken'!!). I suspect that there was a blockage in the suction pipe (I was using a dodgy BW one) - maybe because my girlfriend uses lots of loo paper (yes, I use the poor quality stuff) and doesn't drink enough!. I am considering buying a self-pump out machine (cheaper in the long run, more reliable etc). I have the following questions for my immediate dilemma and for the longer term:

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

 

Once again,

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and help.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

 

Using dodgy BW pump-out machines is a skill! Be aware that there are a few common faults:

1. eating your card and not working (Booo!)
   
2. Frozen suction pipe (rare problem)
   
3. Poor seal between pump-out nozzle and boat fitting (common)
   

 

Problem three we usually solve by wrapping a surgical rubber glove* around the nozzle to get a good seal. Lee sanitation make an adapter that seals onto the pipe of the nozzle.

 

Richard

 

*we have a box of them

[debbifiggy]

Afternoon all,

 

I tried to pump out by toilet tank at the weekend (with two children on board) and without much success (to cries of 'the poo machine has broken'!!). I suspect that there was a blockage in the suction pipe (I was using a dodgy BW one) - maybe because my girlfriend uses lots of loo paper (yes, I use the poor quality stuff) and doesn't drink enough!. I am considering buying a self-pump out machine (cheaper in the long run, more reliable etc). I have the following questions for my immediate dilemma and for the longer term:

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

 

Once again,

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and help.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

 

Please bear in mind that most elsan units are totally unsuitable for using your self pumpout kit as they are on cesspits that need to be pumped out. There's also a lack a suitable sewers close enough to the canal.

 

D

[nb Innisfree]

Using dodgy BW pump-out machines is a skill! Be aware that there are a few common faults:

1. eating your card and not working (Booo!)
   
2. Frozen suction pipe (rare problem)
   
3. Poor seal between pump-out nozzle and boat fitting (common)
   

 

Problem three we usually solve by wrapping a surgical rubber glove* around the nozzle to get a good seal. Lee sanitation make an adapter that seals onto the pipe of the nozzle.

 

Richard

 

*we have a box of them

 

Or a styrofoam cup with the bottom cut off

[Naughty Cal]

Please bear in mind that most elsan units are totally unsuitable for using your self pumpout kit as they are on cesspits that need to be pumped out. There's also a lack a suitable sewers close enough to the canal.

 

D

 

So what is the difference between 10 boat owners emptying crap boxes and 1 boat owner doing a self pump out?

[mayalld]

So what is the difference between 10 boat owners emptying crap boxes and 1 boat owner doing a self pump out?

 

The sheer quantity of effluent that is passed into the tank in a day

[mrsmelly]

Afternoon all,

 

I tried to pump out by toilet tank at the weekend (with two children on board) and without much success (to cries of 'the poo machine has broken'!!). I suspect that there was a blockage in the suction pipe (I was using a dodgy BW one) - maybe because my girlfriend uses lots of loo paper (yes, I use the poor quality stuff) and doesn't drink enough!. I am considering buying a self-pump out machine (cheaper in the long run, more reliable etc). I have the following questions for my immediate dilemma and for the longer term:

 

1) Why am I using so many brackets (when writing)

2) Is there anything I can do (apart from adding more liquid/hand removing the more solid material) to enable me to empty the tank? Maybe a chemical?

3) Does anyone have experience of self-pump out machines? Where is the best place to buy them? Best type? Other tips...etc.

 

Once again,

 

Thanks in advance for any comments and help.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

[Naughty Cal]

The sheer quantity of effluent that is passed into the tank in a day

 

But if it is a storage tank it will be emptied when full. It shouldnt matter if 10 self pump outs or 100 crap cases are emptied into it, its still the same amount of poo.

[RLWP]

But if it is a storage tank it will be emptied when full. It shouldnt matter if 10 self pump outs or 100 crap cases are emptied into it, its still the same amount of poo.

 

In civil engineering terms, it's a litres per second problem, not a total number of litres one.

 

Richard

[Lady Muck]

So what is the difference between 10 boat owners emptying crap boxes and 1 boat owner doing a self pump out?

 

Believe me, it always, always blocks our elsan point. I don't know or care how, it just does.

[Naughty Cal]

In civil engineering terms, it's a litres per second problem, not a total number of litres one.

 

Richard

 

Turn the pump down

[blackrose]

Turn the pump down

 

Most shit pumps don't have an adjustment for rate of flow and even if they did, most users would need to turn it up to full in order to get the maximum amount of suction to ensure the tank emptied properly.

 

What amazes me is that you can buy a little self-pump out kit possibly with an attached motor which is very reliable, yet these big heavy-duty pump out units that BW install by the side of the canal tend to go wrong on a weekly basis. I realise that the latter is doing a lot more work, but still, you'd think they'd be fit-for-purpose?

Edited February 15, 2010 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

But if it is a storage tank it will be emptied when full. It shouldnt matter if 10 self pump outs or 100 crap cases are emptied into it, its still the same amount of poo.

But in general pump-out users produce far more sewage, for the same number of toilet "visits", as most PO toilets use far more flush water per "visit", than you do on a cassette.

 

Also anyone emptying a cassette is usually watching the operation close to, (hopefully), whereas many of the self pump-out mob seem to be pumping a handle some distance from the disposal point, and will not necessarily see they are causing a problem before they have caused the problem.

 

(I've had the misfortune to visit one of the stations near where LM moors after it had received some abuse - not nice. )

[mayalld]

But if it is a storage tank it will be emptied when full. It shouldnt matter if 10 self pump outs or 100 crap cases are emptied into it, its still the same amount of poo.

 

OK, lets look at what you are proposing.

 

In the first instance, let us assume that the facility is indeed connected to a cess-pit (which isn't actually the case, but we'll leave that for point 2).

 

If self pump-out users empty into it, it is going to need emptying 10 times as often, and that costs money, and simply isn't affordable. If self pump-out users use the facility, it will very likely spend many weeks out of action every year because it is full. This isn't going to worry the users who filled it up. They have holding tanks, and don't need an opportunity to empty every couple of days.

 

The provision is there to provide an adequate number of stations for the elsan users, and an adequate (but lesser) number for those who only need to empty every couple of weeks.

 

Secondly, most (almost all) sani stations that aren't on mains drainage are NOT on cess pits, they are on septic tanks.

 

A septic tank is actually a mini treatment plant that sediments and cleans the sewage, and discharges adequately clean water into the environment, leaving the remaining sludge to be emptied fairly infrequently.

 

A septic tank can only actually properly treat a certain amount of sewage. It isn't a case of fill it 10 times as fast, empty it 10 times as often, it is a case of "exceed the capacity of the system, and it isn't going to work at all".

 

So, if you have a septic tank system that needs emptying every 6 months, and you overload it, you turn it into a cess pit with a very limited capacity, that might need emptying every two days.

[Naughty Cal]

Just pump it into the canal then, cut the middle man out

[GUMPY]

Self pump out always reminds me of this:

 

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.rec.wa...9f80af0956df3a8

 

reproduced below:

 

Today I am mainly wearing....... SH*T

 

Well not actually me but Mr Helpful. I now have to moderate my language as

one of my nieces (in law) has joined my news group. I will however try to

maintain some humour.

 

I have often been told that my humour is a bit on the 'toilet' side so I

thought "why not talk toilets" it's a bit like lets talk dirty.

 

Toilets are not the normal thing one would bring up in general conversation

unless you live on a narrow boat. This normally revolves around questions

like "where's the nearest sanitary station (nothing to do with ladies

depositories I am afraid)" or "where is the nearest pumpout"?

 

There are two types of toilets on narrow boats, a cassette type the same as

is often found on modern touring caravans (often referred to as a Porta

Poti) or a pumpout toilet which is what we have. The most common type of the

latter is known as a 'drop through' toilet, use your imagination. It's

actually very clean to use and not a bit smelly. Now about every 10 days we

have to take the boat to a pumpout station to have the tank emptied. This

involves a big tube being attached to the boat and then the toilet waste is

sucked out, not a pleasant task. This on average costs about £10, that's

about £500 a year to use the toilet!

 

Now we get onto the my title for today. To save money one can buy a DIY

pumpout kit. AHA now we get down to it. Well what you do is find a sanitary

station, the use of which is free, connect a thick pipe to the boat and to a

big hand pump, another soft, flat pipe, rather like a firemans hose, is

connected to the other end of the pump which is then rolled out and is

shoved down the bowl in the sanitary station. These sanitary stations are

really a normal toilet bowl like you have at home and instead of a chain to

pull you flush it with a hose pipe provided after emptying the contents of

your cassette down there. They are either in a small room or have a small

brick wall round them. So, having bought the kit and put it altogether off

we go to a sanitary station for our first, free, DIY pumpout.

 

We moor up and I connect it all up, roll out the flat pipe and stick it down

the bowl, return to the boat and start to pump, after a very short time you

should feel the pump 'bit' as the waste starts to go through I am told. Now

it should be kept in mind that a chemical is involved here, rather like what

is used in Porta Poti's it breaks down 'solid' matter and toilet paper so

what you end up with is, yes you have probably guessed it, liquid sh*t

(that's pooh to you, Jessica). Now these sanitary stations are normally near

locks or a special mooring, in this case it is at Braunston. Because

Braunston is the canal capital of the world everyone visits it mostly to

walk along, ask silly questions like "is that a narrow boat" or to 'bog'

through your windows to see what your boat is like. Now in this game you

always get the "You don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like

this" type of Mr Helpful.

 

So this guy comes along, Mr Helpful, sees what I am doing as I am pumping

away like mad waiting for it to 'bit' he follows the blue pipe along to the

sanitary station and starts looking down the bowl where my pipe is going

with the 'aim' of telling me when the muck has reached the bowl. Now what I

didn't realise is the force at which this pump works, apparently it can push

water up about 10 metres through it's 50mm pipe so we are talking a fair

pressure here. The pump 'bits' I pump like mad and then there is a scream

and Mr Helpful comes running back to me with the end if the pipe in his

hand, liquid sh*t spurting 2 metres in the air all over him and anything

else its pointed at shouting STOP PUMPING you idiot.

 

Apparently what had happened is the force of the muck coming out the pipe

was so much that it propelled the pipe straight out the bowl, he tried to

push it back down but the pipe being very soft and flexible was totally

uncontrollable. The result is rather like trying to hold a very slippery

snake that's intent on biting you. Well you can imagine the state of poor Mr

Helpful, there he stands covered from head to foot in horrible, smell gooey,

brown pooh, there was only one thing to do so I promptly got hold of the

water hose and turned it on him to rinse him down and then suggest he A)

sees a doctor and minds his own business in future. As for me, well I

have now made a wire frame up rather like you have on the waste pipe of a

washing machine so I can hook the pipe over the bowl and hold it in place.

[RLWP]

Turn the pump down

 

Now you are making the right kind of suggestions.

 

Richard

 

(Happy pump-out owner)