Pump out

[mayalld]

Until BW see fit to completely ban the use of self pump out kits, and where there are no signs stating that they can not be used, then the users of self pump out kits are doing nothing wrong.

 

Well, leaving aside the cases where they spray shit liberally around the sani-station, then that is correct.

 

However, that isn't what you previously said.

 

When you were told that most sanitary stations are NOT suitable (and that is the case, most sanitary stations are marked as not suitable), you mouthed off in your usual ill-informed way that you couldn't see why it should be a problem.

 

When in a hole dearie....

[alan_fincher]

My impression is that more of the sanitary stations we use are marked as "unsuitable" than "suitable", (or are unmarked), (my experience being to the southern half of the network).

 

However, in keeping with my usual success at searching Waterscape.com, I can't actually find the published list, (God knows why people say "search" on here is crap - try "Waterscape"!).

 

Can anybody actually find a BW list of stations deemed to be suitable, (or, of course, unsuitable).

 

I have certainly seen ones marked as "unsuitable" being used for self pump-out, but admit that as I don't enjoy such arguments, I would usually shy away from challenging somebody on the point.

 

EDIT:

 

I must admit, where it is not presenting a hazard to do so, I prefer to see people doing self pump-out by lifting a suitable sewage manhole, rather than by monopolising an Elsan facility for large amounts of time, (unless they are prepared to pause whilst someone does a quick cassette emptying).

Edited February 16, 2010 by alan_fincher

[magnetman]

My impression is that more of the sanitary stations we use are marked as "unsuitable" than "suitable", (or are unmarked), (my experience being to the southern half of the network).

 

However, in keeping with my usual success at searching Waterscape.com, I can't actually find the published list, (God knows why people say "search" on here is crap - try "Waterscape"!).

 

Can anybody actually find a BW list of stations deemed to be suitable, (or, of course, unsuitable).

 

I have certainly seen ones marked as "unsuitable" being used for self pump-out, but admit that as I don't enjoy such arguments, I would usually shy away from challenging somebody on the point.

 

specially if they've got a hose with organic byproduct materials coming out of it under pressure

[Naughty Cal]

Well, leaving aside the cases where they spray shit liberally around the sani-station, then that is correct.

 

Ah yes because of course it is only pump out users that ever leave a mess. Crap cassette users always leave the disposal points smelling of roses and so clean you could eat your lunch off of them

 

I must admit, where it is not presenting a hazard to do so, I prefer to see people doing self pump-out by lifting a suitable sewage manhole, rather than by monopolising an Elsan facility for large amounts of time, (unless they are prepared to pause whilst someone does a quick cassette emptying).

 

Do you pause if another user comes along.

 

Do you stop filling our water tank from the water point if another user comes along?

[alan_fincher]

specially if they've got a hose with organic byproduct materials coming out of it under pressure

I could always sneak back at night, and top up their fresh water (or diesel) tank from a filled cassette!

[jenlyn]

I could always sneak back at night, and top up their fresh water (or diesel) tank from a filled cassette!

 

attaches night site to outlet pipe, in readiness for night visitor

[alan_fincher]

Do you stop filling our water tank from the water point if another user comes along?

It is accepted that you may have to wait for water points, and at busy locations there are very often multiple taps that allow several boats to be filling at once.

 

Sanitary stations, in my experience, only ever have the one "facility".

 

I don't think it's unfair to say that the intention of these things was to support pump-out boats - they were clearly first introduced for "Elsan" style users.

 

There are also far less sanitary stations than water points.

 

Also most narrow boats can hold weeks worth of fresh water, but it is very difficult to last anything like as long with an "Elsan" without being able to empty.

 

If water points are busy, you can usually wait until you find one that isn't. Not anything like the same flexibility with loo emptying.

[Naughty Cal]

It is accepted that you may have to wait for water points, and at busy locations there are very often multiple taps that allow several boats to be filling at once.

 

Sanitary stations, in my experience, only ever have the one "facility".

 

I don't think it's unfair to say that the intention of these things was to support pump-out boats - they were clearly first introduced for "Elsan" style users.

 

There are also far less sanitary stations than water points.

 

Also most narrow boats can hold weeks worth of fresh water, but it is very difficult to last anything like as long with an "Elsan" without being able to empty.

 

If water points are busy, you can usually wait until you find one that isn't. Not anything like the same flexibility with loo emptying.

 

No but you can wait until the current user is finished.

[mayalld]

Ah yes because of course it is only pump out users that ever leave a mess. Crap cassette users always leave the disposal points smelling of roses and so clean you could eat your lunch off of them

 

Well done!

 

You have worked out that you were on the ropes over the whole septic tank issue, and moved on to a new front in the discussion.

 

It is indeed true that cassette users can (and sometimes do) leave a sani station in a mess.

 

However, it is difficult to imagine how it would be possible for even the most determined cassette wielding maniac to deliberately make as much mess as can be made if a self pump-out hose comes adrift and starts spraying everywhere.

 

I couldn't coat the ceiling if I tried. A self pump-out kit can do it without even trying at all

[nb Innisfree]

Just curious but doesn't chemicals such as toilet blue affect the efficiency of a septic tank?

[deletedaccount]

Considering you can't buy pump out cards anywhere on the western K&A I'm thinking of getting a self pump out sorted at some point.

 

I'll be happily corrected on the above point though.

[magnetman]

Its interesting to see how a change in usage patterns on the cut ie a move towards more residential use and 'floating apartment' style boats has begun to put pressure on the (free) services which were originally provided as an aid to holiday makers. The water points and sanitary stations were never intended to handle the volumes which they are required to do by full time residential boaters. its simple.

 

its blatant that sanitary stations are designed for ELSAN type use why would ELSAN be such a generic term otherwise?

 

Pump-out is and has always been a competely different kettle of fish and sanitary stations simply should not be used by those wanting to empty a half a ton of waste in one go.

 

The obvious solution is to simply restrict use to the facilities by adding timers and sliding hatches so if you want to use the thing for more than 5 minutes you PAY. You get a smart card with your license which allows you to use water and sewerage facilities for a REASONABLE AVERAGE then you PAY.

 

simple, otherwise we have a problem.

 

same goes for the water.

[mayalld]

Just curious but doesn't chemicals such as toilet blue affect the efficiency of a septic tank?

 

I believe that they can have some effect, and that the capacity of a tank used for elsan disposal is less than the same tank used for handling untreated sewage.

 

At many older sani-stations one can still see notices from the 1970s instructing that only formaldehyde based chemicals (Elsan Blue is formaldehyde based) are allowed, and that Creosote (phenolic) based chemicals are not.

 

Whlist I am not aware of phenol based chemical toilet fluid being used these days, I presume that this means that the bacteria can survive formaldehyde but not phenol.

[Naughty Cal]

Its interesting to see how a change in usage patterns on the cut ie a move towards more residential use and 'floating apartment' style boats has begun to put pressure on the (free) services which were originally provided as an aid to holiday makers. The water points and sanitary stations were never intended to handle the volumes which they are required to do by full time residential boaters. its simple.

 

its blatant that sanitary stations are designed for ELSAN type use why would ELSAN be such a generic term otherwise?

 

Pump-out is and has always been a competely different kettle of fish and sanitary stations simply should not be used by those wanting to empty a half a ton of waste in one go.

 

The obvious solution is to simply restrict use to the facilities by adding timers and sliding hatches so if you want to use the thing for more than 5 minutes you PAY. You get a smart card with your license which allows you to use water and sewerage facilities for a REASONABLE AVERAGE then you PAY.

 

simple, otherwise we have a problem.

 

same goes for the water.

 

Sounds like a good plan to me

[jenlyn]

Its interesting to see how a change in usage patterns on the cut ie a move towards more residential use and 'floating apartment' style boats has begun to put pressure on the (free) services which were originally provided as an aid to holiday makers. The water points and sanitary stations were never intended to handle the volumes which they are required to do by full time residential boaters. its simple.

 

its blatant that sanitary stations are designed for ELSAN type use why would ELSAN be such a generic term otherwise?

 

Pump-out is and has always been a competely different kettle of fish and sanitary stations simply should not be used by those wanting to empty a half a ton of waste in one go.

 

The obvious solution is to simply restrict use to the facilities by adding timers and sliding hatches so if you want to use the thing for more than 5 minutes you PAY. You get a smart card with your license which allows you to use water and sewerage facilities for a REASONABLE AVERAGE then you PAY.

 

simple, otherwise we have a problem.

 

same goes for the water.

 

aye lad, the worlds a changing . . . . . . . . . . but shit happens

[WotEver]

jabsco pump (£90) wire and switch (£10) collapsable pipe (£18) 40 litre aqua roll (£29), no mess and no different to emptying a cassette!!

Actually, it's very different to emptying a cassette. It's more akin to emptying 50 cassettes plus another 50 full of water all at the same time.

[GUMPY]

Just curious but doesn't chemicals such as toilet blue affect the efficiency of a septic tank?

 

The first sensible answer here!

I doubt if BW have any systems that are connected to Septic Tanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank

The Blue in any toilet system even a cassette will stop a septic tank working.

 

However I think that there are quite a few cess pits where the blue will not be a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cess_pit

The only problem that could be caused in a cess pit is that BW dont empty it often enough.

[jenlyn]

Actually, it's very different to emptying a cassette. It's more akin to emptying 50 cassettes plus another 50 full of water all at the same time.

 

hmmm, maths not your subject at school then?

[Naughty Cal]

Actually, it's very different to emptying a cassette. It's more akin to emptying 50 cassettes plus another 50 full of water all at the same time.

 

Some very small crap cassettes around then

[nb Innisfree]

Was talking to a guy who said he was taken to task by a BW employee over using a self p/o at Nantwich as it was a septic tank, he had to lift the sewer cover to show him it was mains drainage.

Edited February 16, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[jenlyn]

Was talking to a guy who said he was taken to task by a BW employee over using a self p/o at Nantwich as it was a septic tank, he had to lift the sewer cover to show him it was mains drainage.

 

BW, aint they the cream,eh?

[tosher]

More importantly BW need to work to remove the "discrimination" so that more Elsan points can be used by self pump-outs. That is, wherever possible, sceptic tanks be replaced by sewer connection or/and make more provision for self pump-out where easier to do so. Do not expand the BW electric card charge pump-out in competition with marinas!?

 

 

Well said that man, untill the above happens the current situation will remain no matter how long and hard we "discuss it" on this forum. The pump out brigade will be unhappy that they can't dispose of their effluent, which they pay to do in their liecence fee, and the cassette brigade will be unhappy that they cannot dispose of their effluent, which they pay to do in their liecence fee, because the the sani-stations are all being filled up by the pump out brigade. Somewhere, sometime common sence must prevail!!!!! tosher

[mayalld]

Well said that man, untill the above happens the current situation will remain no matter how long and hard we "discuss it" on this forum. The pump out brigade will be unhappy that they can't dispose of their effluent, which they pay to do in their liecence fee, and the cassette brigade will be unhappy that they cannot dispose of their effluent, which they pay to do in their liecence fee, because the the sani-stations are all being filled up by the pump out brigade. Somewhere, sometime common sence must prevail!!!!! tosher

 

But the pump out brigade CAN dispose of their effluent, they just cannot do so at ALL sanitary stations.

 

That shouldn't be a problem, because they don't need to pump out nearly as often as cassettes need to be emptied.

[blodger]

Oh, for pities sake!

 

I'm fairly sure that BW would never install a septic tank if a mains sewer was an option!

 

As far as I can see, given the frequency with which self pump-out users need a facility, there is an adequate provision for self pump-out.

 

There do not seem to be many new such service provisions so past ruralised locations seem to mean predominating tanks serviced by road. My experience is that there are insufficient self pump-out opportunities and its sods law that when you absolutely need one its no self pump-out so often necessity means paying whatever at the next marina.

Things have changed in terms of the range of basic services that boaters need and it seems fairly obvious to me that Elsan points are somewhat lacking if they cannot cope with self pump-outs.

Perhaps it is not so odd with most new boats replicating homes that BW has commissioned shower and washing machine blocks here and there since it is catering for the heritage bucket and dump it brigade?

[sueb]

So you've agreed with someone else who doesn't understand! The issue is not frequency of use, it's about quantities of waste at any one time - I thought this was already explained quite clearly in several posts?

 

Your post also ignores previous points made (one by BW staff), that many elsan points are unsuited for self-pump outs and this is not permitted. If it is permitted at your local elsan point then fine, but we can't have people making up their own rules and then trying to justify this by saying they're paying for it. Yes you're paying for it and it's available for your use on the basis that you use it in conjunction with the appropriate equipment.

 

It's up to each owner to decide what equipment to have on their boat and that doesn't make it ok for owners of certain equipment to abuse facilities for which their equipment was not designed.

But I DO understand. It is all very well BW saying don't use elsan points but many of them used to be suitable for pump outs. BW have just changed their rules and not provided facilities for the boaters paying a licence fee on the system.

I haven't a local elsan point.

Sue