Pump out

[mayalld]

There do not seem to be many new such service provisions so past ruralised locations seem to mean predominating tanks serviced by road. My experience is that there are insufficient self pump-out opportunities and its sods law that when you absolutely need one its no self pump-out so often necessity means paying whatever at the next marina.

Things have changed in terms of the range of basic services that boaters need and it seems fairly obvious to me that Elsan points are somewhat lacking if they cannot cope with self pump-outs.

Perhaps it is not so odd with most new boats replicating homes that BW has commissioned shower and washing machine blocks here and there since it is catering for the heritage bucket and dump it brigade?

 

There aren't enough elsan facilities for cassette users, and we need them fairly regularly.

 

SPO users have the luxury of a larger tank, and unless they push it to the limit even the less frequent sani stations that they can use ought to be sufficient.

 

We have 2 cassettes. If one is full, and the other has just gone in, and I pass a sani station, I will empty, rather than pushing on. If the SPO user adopts the same strategy....

[sueb]

Considering you can't buy pump out cards anywhere on the western K&A I'm thinking of getting a self pump out sorted at some point.

 

I'll be happily corrected on the above point though.

You will find it difficult to buy pump out cards anywhere which is why we no longer use them.

Sue

[nb Innisfree]

You will find it difficult to buy pump out cards anywhere which is why we no longer use them.

Sue

 

And difficult to find a facility where they can be reliably used, we have some that we have some are over 2yrs old because we are so reluctant to use them and find they don't work or get chewed up + some boat yards don't give a satifactory rinse out so more POs and SPOs are definitely needed especially with increased traffic and hire boats having holding tanks.

[Chertsey]

Ah yes because of course it is only pump out users that ever leave a mess. Crap cassette users always leave the disposal points smelling of roses and so clean you could eat your lunch off of them

 

 

 

Do you pause if another user comes along.

 

Do you stop filling our water tank from the water point if another user comes along?

I would if they only wanted to fill a can.

[deletedaccount]

And difficult to find a facility where they can be reliably used, we have some that we have some are over 2yrs old because we are so reluctant to use them and find they don't work or get chewed up + some boat yards don't give a satifactory rinse out so more POs and SPOs are definitely needed especially with increased traffic and hire boats having holding tanks.

 

The last BW one I used chewed up two cards and gave me half a pump out and now I can't buy cards.

 

Still, £250 for a pump seems a bit much.

[Guest wanted]

Remember the 7 p's, Prior prep and planning prevent poo/pee problems!

[alan_fincher]

But I DO understand. It is all very well BW saying don't use elsan points but many of them used to be suitable for pump outs. BW have just changed their rules and not provided facilities for the boaters paying a licence fee on the system.

So, to re-iterate my previous question, can anybody find BW's "official;" list of which sanitary stations self pump-out is either allowed at, or forbidden at.

 

Are you suggesting BW are just chosing to lock down ones where self PO was allowed, to a "not allowed" situation, simply to be awkward ?

 

Isn't it possible that they are doing it because they belive the use of self PO at those locations is making the facilities unavailable for "cassette" users ?

[Ray]

I concur with Alan. Let's have a list of those places where self pump out is allowed, then we can do as Dave says and (try to) make sure that we don't leave it until the last minute until we empty your tank.

 

We were on the Lee in the Spring. We didn't have any pump out cards because we weren't aware of where they could be obtained. The marinas that we tried were either closed for the weekend or didn't open until Easter. Luckily, the BW office staff at Enfield obliged on Monday morning with a card that they'd retained and we were able to pump out at Stonebridge.

 

How are Continuous Cruisers supposed to keep moving around if there aren't facilities provided during the off season for them to do so? BW have never said that Pump Out systems (of any kind) aren't catered for so IMHO they have an obligation to provide some kind of facility, even if it until caters for those who want to empty their own tanks rather than have them emptied by someone else.

 

I believe that I'm right in saying that EA and the Thames provide free pump out facilities. Why don't BW?

 

Would it be practical for BW to modify those sanitary stations that can accommodate pump outs so that they all have a standard fitting. Anyone wanting to pump out then connects their system to the fitting and either manually or electrically pumps their tank out as required. That should avoid the elsan point being defaced, so to speak. I would have thought that, with a little ingenuity, it should be possible to design a connector that more or less eliminates the risk of "spillage".

 

Is it impossible from some bright spark to develop an add-on to the self pump out kit that allows people to pump part of their tank's content into a otherwise sealed container (in an emergency) that can then be emptied at a Sanitary station? Correctly designed it could have an integral storage space for stowing the pump out equipment when not in use. Perhaps a plastic container with a moveable false bottom. Remove the PO kit to increase the capacity of the container. The effulent is pumped via a connector on the container into a rubber (or similar) pouch/sack/bag that expands to fill the container's space as the content of the bag increases. The "bag" is then emptied at the Sanitary station and the PO kit stowed away afterwards.

[Madmark62]

You will find it difficult to buy pump out cards anywhere which is why we no longer use them.

Sue

 

You can buy them online from Waterscape, we have just purchased some this week.

[Naughty Cal]

You can buy them online from Waterscape, we have just purchased some this week.

 

You can buy them from any of the lock keepers on the Trent and Ouse.

[blodger]

You can buy them from any of the lock keepers on the Trent and Ouse.

We have a collection, never the right one, or enough, or the reader will not read or chews up; So I am wary of adding to the collection.

On the canals as has been said the sanitary stations are few and far between. I prefer to moor where I can away from so called "Visitor Moorings" identifiable by mooring time restrictions and usually surrounded by the debris of life. Mooring elsewhere and walking the dog one often encounters a hedgeback where it is evident from the smell etc someone has unburdened their cassette.

I fear that without increased relevant provision that those with the ability to self pump-out will join that 'brigade'

[blackrose]

But I DO understand. It is all very well BW saying don't use elsan points but many of them used to be suitable for pump outs. BW have just changed their rules and not provided facilities for the boaters paying a licence fee on the system.

I haven't a local elsan point.

Sue

 

If the elsan points in question used to allow self pump outs and BW have changed the rules it may be due to an increased use of self-pumpouts at these places, which then renders them unsuitable. Rules are always subject to change. If anyone feels that adequate facilities are not provided then they should take the matter up with BW, but this does not give anyone the right to flout the rules because they happen not to agree with them.

Edited February 17, 2010 by blackrose

[sueb]

You can buy them online from Waterscape, we have just purchased some this week.

This is not a lot of help for continuous cruisers. The whole system of availability and suitability of disposal facilities needs sorting but BW are not interested.

Sue

[blodger]

If the elsan points in question used to allow self pump outs and BW have changed the rules it may be due to an increased use of self-pumpouts at these places, which then renders them unsuitable. Rules are always subject to change. If anyone feels that adequate facilities are not provided then they should take the matter up with BW, but this does not give anyone the right to flout the rules because they happen not to agree with them.

I do not see that BW has a right to willy nilly change the "rules" or should I say guidance. Over the years BW seems to have gotten away with a bit too much in terms of re-interpretation of its Byelaws as epitomised by its trying to define continuos cruising in terms of mooring duration and lock miles per period of time.

Improvement work may be needed rather than bolting the door to one set of users!

[mayalld]

I do not see that BW has a right to willy nilly change the "rules" or should I say guidance. Over the years BW seems to have gotten away with a bit too much in terms of re-interpretation of its Byelaws as epitomised by its trying to define continuos cruising in terms of mooring duration and lock miles per period of time.

Improvement work may be needed rather than bolting the door to one set of users!

 

I'm not sure that this has even the slightest relevance to bye-laws and the like.

 

Back when pleasure boating took off, BW provided a network of sanitary stations which would allow for the disposal of bucket and chuck-it loo contents.

 

In due course, as the hire market grew, there was a pressure from that market for a different type of toilet, and the pump-out came into being. Nobody expected BW to provide for this new facility. The hire firms wanted them, so they provided the infrastucture at base, and made reciprocal arrangements for away from base pump-out.

 

As time went on, some private boats went this way too, and paid for the services of the private infrastructure.

 

Then we arrived at the point where some boaters decided that they didn't want to pay for pump-outs and would use a self pump-out kit. They started pumping out into facilities that had never been intended for that purpose, and weren't up to the job, and eventually BW had to start labelling them as such.

 

At no point has BW ever said that it would set up a network of locations for SPO. The fact that some boaters took it upon themselves to appropriate a facility provided for a different purpose for that purpose doesn't suddenly oblige BW to upgrade the network of sanitary stations.

[blodger]

I'm not sure that this has even the slightest relevance to bye-laws and the like.

 

Back when pleasure boating took off, BW provided a network of sanitary stations which would allow for the disposal of bucket and chuck-it loo contents.

 

In due course, as the hire market grew, there was a pressure from that market for a different type of toilet, and the pump-out came into being. Nobody expected BW to provide for this new facility. The hire firms wanted them, so they provided the infrastucture at base, and made reciprocal arrangements for away from base pump-out.

 

As time went on, some private boats went this way too, and paid for the services of the private infrastructure.

 

Then we arrived at the point where some boaters decided that they didn't want to pay for pump-outs and would use a self pump-out kit. They started pumping out into facilities that had never been intended for that purpose, and weren't up to the job, and eventually BW had to start labelling them as such.

 

At no point has BW ever said that it would set up a network of locations for SPO. The fact that some boaters took it upon themselves to appropriate a facility provided for a different purpose for that purpose doesn't suddenly oblige BW to upgrade the network of sanitary stations.

I do not disagree with your analysis. It is someone else's assertion that 'Elsan's which were SPO OK no longer are via notices and not because they are tanks that could be swamped. I am saying that I can quite believe that BW would do it for no good reason other than some Elsans are and were already appropriately so noticed.

I do not think BW is any better or worse than its ilk. It has made some forays into satisfying customers. One of its problems is that it does not often see itself as being obligated to move towards meeting the wants or needs of its customers. The obligation is to give consideration to the latter in conducting its affairs.

It was only in the 60s as steam gave way to motor that foreign going ships stopped discharging toilets onto the wharves they were using. I recall 'thunderboxes' having to be used on the Great Lakes because of this. There seems to be a great love still for thunderboxes on the canals but I suspect pump-out tanks exist in equal number.

You seem to be saying that BW need only cater for the thunderboxes. Of course they are also providing electric card pump-outs at rare locations and in their marinas. I cannot see what you have against SPO and consideration being given by BW in its facilities provision to accommodate it where economically feasible.

[Madmark62]

This is not a lot of help for continuous cruisers. The whole system of availability and suitability of disposal facilities needs sorting but BW are not interested.

Sue

 

Why?

Do you have no internet connection? Obviously you do, so that is not the answer.

Have yo got no address that the cards can be posted to? Nah 1 cant be that because you can arrange to have them delivered to any post office you want.

[sueb]

Why?

Do you have no internet connection? Obviously you do, so that is not the answer.

Have yo got no address that the cards can be posted to? Nah 1 cant be that because you can arrange to have them delivered to any post office you want.

Yes I can order one/several but I then have to sort out an address for it to be sent to. I then have to go to that address, which I may or may not go past depending where I cruise to. I will continue to use my self pump out rather than be reliant on the vagaries of BW and the postal system. The cards should be for sale near to the pumpout points

Sue

[blodger]

Yes I can order one/several but I then have to sort out an address for it to be sent to. I then have to go to that address, which I may or may not go past depending where I cruise to. I will continue to use my self pump out rather than be reliant on the vagaries of BW and the postal system. The cards should be for sale near to the pumpout points

Sue

I know BW needs to recover the costs over time and even make a profit from its electric card pump-out provision which many want and are happy with but surely they can still do this whilst making provision (a connection to the drains)alongside and elswhere for self pump-out afficianados?

I think at Thrup you can do it

[blackrose]

I do not see that BW has a right to willy nilly change the "rules" or should I say guidance.

 

Of course they have the right to set and change the rules - they are the body who administer large sections of the network!

 

At one time I daresay, those on boats were permitted to discharge their waste directly into the waterway. As the number of boats increased rules on this were implemented and then modified.

 

If someone today tried to justify dumping their waste into the waterway on the basis that it used to be permitted, we would all be rightly outraged.

Edited February 18, 2010 by blackrose

[mayalld]

I do not disagree with your analysis. It is someone else's assertion that 'Elsan's which were SPO OK no longer are via notices and not because they are tanks that could be swamped. I am saying that I can quite believe that BW would do it for no good reason other than some Elsans are and were already appropriately so noticed.

I do not think BW is any better or worse than its ilk. It has made some forays into satisfying customers. One of its problems is that it does not often see itself as being obligated to move towards meeting the wants or needs of its customers. The obligation is to give consideration to the latter in conducting its affairs.

It was only in the 60s as steam gave way to motor that foreign going ships stopped discharging toilets onto the wharves they were using. I recall 'thunderboxes' having to be used on the Great Lakes because of this. There seems to be a great love still for thunderboxes on the canals but I suspect pump-out tanks exist in equal number.

You seem to be saying that BW need only cater for the thunderboxes. Of course they are also providing electric card pump-outs at rare locations and in their marinas. I cannot see what you have against SPO and consideration being given by BW in its facilities provision to accommodate it where economically feasible.

 

I don't have anything in particular against SPO (although it does make me smile that having gone for a pump-out, often citing the advantages of not carrying cassettes of crap to the elsan, people then find room to stow yards of crap encrusted pipe).

 

I'm fairly sure that there are some elsan points that have been designated as not suitable for no particular reason. I'm also sure that there are many where SPO used to be OK when only a small number were doing it, but increasing use of SPO has meant that the facility was being overwhelmed. What are BW to do if a particular facility will cope with a couple of SPO a week, but it is being used daily and overwhelming the system?

[blodger]

Of course they have the right to set and change the rules - they are the body who administer large sections of the network!

 

At one time I daresay, those on boats were permitted to discharge their waste directly into the waterway. As the number of boats increased rules on this were implemented and then modified.

 

If someone today tried to justify dumping their waste into the waterway on the basis that it used to be permitted, we would all be rightly outraged.

Exactly. The provision and accompanying 'rules' and guidance need to reflect modern, current and future relevant usage. Not be stuck in the past

[Scooby]

Well maybe i am one of the lucky ones but we have a pumpout toilet with electric flush, i have blocked it once and thats cos the wife used wrong toilet roll, since then we have used it 4 months, it lasts about 8 weeks before emptying it, so you put £500 a year lol, mine costs £60 a year, so if you think i am going to consider carrying 2 cassettes down the towpath to empty twice a week or do 6 pumpouts for the sake of saving £60 you must be mad..its like being at home you use it you flush it, it doesnt smell and after emptying just put a bit of blue stuff in and thats me done for another 2 months, SIMPLES.....EEK

[Guest wanted]

Exactly. The provision and accompanying 'rules' and guidance need to reflect modern, current and future relevant usage. Not be stuck in the past

 

Changing rules won’t alter the fact that some of the elsan points can’t cope with SPO

The rules are there to protect the infrastructure that has obviously become inadequate. More strategic pump outs and or dedicated SPO points are what we need.

[blodger]

Well maybe i am one of the lucky ones but we have a pumpout toilet with electric flush, i have blocked it once and thats cos the wife used wrong toilet roll, since then we have used it 4 months, it lasts about 8 weeks before emptying it, so you put £500 a year lol, mine costs £60 a year, so if you think i am going to consider carrying 2 cassettes down the towpath to empty twice a week or do 6 pumpouts for the sake of saving £60 you must be mad..its like being at home you use it you flush it, it doesnt smell and after emptying just put a bit of blue stuff in and thats me done for another 2 months, SIMPLES.....EEK

I have nothing against thunderboxes; that's what I had on my old Springer.

This boat has a pump-out which is fine but I do not like being ripped off to empty it. BW's pump-out facilities used to be reasonable but they have hiked the charges so as not to be in competition wuth their own and other marinas.

 

On this thread I am defending self pump-out as an option.

 

I was stuck for a period with gearbox failure with an overflowing toilet/pump-out fermenting in hot weather. I bought a basic SPO manual kit thereafter because I never wanted to be stuck that way again.

 

It is worth carrying it around for that eventuality in my view. Naturally, I had hoped that in time the 200.00 or so cost would be recovered by not having to be dependent on Marina PO.

 

However, the opportunities for SPO are few and far inbetween and the odd occasion I have been able to use it one does encounter hostility from other services users, mainly cassette emptiers strangely, that it does not impede anyway other than my boat is where it has to be for hose connection.

 

It is also a struggle to find effective tie places for restrait ropes in the cubicles so that the operation can be clean, safe & single handed. Again, BW could help there if it wanted to.

 

I hope BW monitors this site for ideas to improve its performance and customer satisfaction. I wonder what will rteplace lock bollarding?