Pump out

[Naughty Cal]

Well maybe i am one of the lucky ones but we have a pumpout toilet with electric flush, i have blocked it once and thats cos the wife used wrong toilet roll, since then we have used it 4 months, it lasts about 8 weeks before emptying it, so you put £500 a year lol, mine costs £60 a year, so if you think i am going to consider carrying 2 cassettes down the towpath to empty twice a week or do 6 pumpouts for the sake of saving £60 you must be mad..its like being at home you use it you flush it, it doesnt smell and after emptying just put a bit of blue stuff in and thats me done for another 2 months, SIMPLES.....EEK

 

You pay to empty yours.

 

Ours lasts just over a month and then it is time for a quick trip onto the tidal trent where we can empty it free of charge. Best of both worlds

[magpie patrick]

Some very small crap cassettes around then

 

errr no, some very large holding tanks

 

Ripple has two, each approx 20 cubic feet, round figures say 40 cubic feet or 4 cubic metres. A cubic metres is 1000 litres by volume, and if it's sewage weights well over a tonne.

 

The list gets unacceptable if they are both full!

[blodger]

I have nothing against thunderboxes; that's what I had on my old Springer.

This boat has a pump-out which is fine but I do not like being ripped off to empty it. BW's pump-out facilities used to be reasonable but they have hiked the charges so as not to be in competition wuth their own and other marinas.

 

On this thread I am defending self pump-out as an option.

 

I was stuck for a period with gearbox failure with an overflowing toilet/pump-out fermenting in hot weather. I bought a basic SPO manual kit thereafter because I never wanted to be stuck that way again.

 

It is worth carrying it around for that eventuality in my view. Naturally, I had hoped that in time the 200.00 or so cost would be recovered by not having to be dependent on Marina PO.

 

However, the opportunities for SPO are few and far inbetween and the odd occasion I have been able to use it one does encounter hostility from other services users, mainly cassette emptiers strangely, that it does not impede anyway other than my boat is where it has to be for hose connection.

 

It is also a struggle to find effective tie places for restrait ropes in the cubicles so that the operation can be clean, safe & single handed. Again, BW could help there if it wanted to.

 

I hope BW monitors this site for ideas to improve its performance and customer satisfaction. I wonder what will rteplace lock bollarding?

I do not worry too much about the hostility; You seem to get it anyway if the water tank takes too long to fill! If the tank is pretty empty and/or pretty low water pressure I have done the self pump-out and stowed it away again concurrently! Hence, I do not think SPO is as irritating at Sanitary Stations as is being made out.

[Naughty Cal]

errr no, some very large holding tanks

 

Ripple has two, each approx 20 cubic feet, round figures say 40 cubic feet or 4 cubic metres. A cubic metres is 1000 litres by volume, and if it's sewage weights well over a tonne.

 

The list gets unacceptable if they are both full!

 

The post you have quoted was in reply to Wotever, who claims that emptying any pump out toilet is akin to emptying 50 crap cassettes plus 50 crap cassettes of water. Obviously not true.

 

Our black water tank is 16 gallons or around 72 litres, which if we use Wotevers sums would equate to a crap cassette of .72 litres. Better not use it after going the pub Wotever

[magpie patrick]

The post you have quoted was in reply to Wotever, who claims that emptying any pump out toilet is akin to emptying 50 crap cassettes plus 50 crap cassettes of water. Obviously not true.

 

Our black water tank is 16 gallons or around 72 litres, which if we use Wotevers sums would equate to a crap cassette of .72 litres. Better not use it after going the pub Wotever

 

errr yes, you want more than a milk bottle available after a night in the poob

[Scooby]

You pay to empty yours.

 

Ours lasts just over a month and then it is time for a quick trip onto the tidal trent where we can empty it free of charge. Best of both worlds

 

well £60 a year is hardly breaking the bank eh, does yours have a proper flush?

[jenlyn]

well £60 a year is hardly breaking the bank eh, does yours have a proper flush?

 

mine has electric flush, even has trace heating on the seat, like to be comfy when reading the posts . . . heh heh

[nb Innisfree]

errr no, some very large holding tanks

 

Ripple has two, each approx 20 cubic feet, round figures say 40 cubic feet or 4 cubic metres. A cubic metres is 1000 litres by volume, and if it's sewage weights well over a tonne.

 

The list gets unacceptable if they are both full!

 

Anorak here, 40 cu ft = 1.16 cu mtrs = 250 gal = 1125 lts =2500lbs = 1.16 tons = 1.111 tonnes

[blackrose]

Exactly. The provision and accompanying 'rules' and guidance need to reflect modern, current and future relevant usage. Not be stuck in the past

 

Agreed, but you said you weren't sure if BW had the right to change the rules. If not BW then who should keep the rules relevant? You've got to have some body or organisation charged with setting and maintaining the rules. If individual boaters are allowed to decide which rules they want to follow and which they don't, then we end up with anarchy.

Edited February 18, 2010 by blackrose

[Naughty Cal]

well £60 a year is hardly breaking the bank eh, does yours have a proper flush?

 

No. It draws water from the river so we dont use that and instead give it a quick squirt with the jet wash shower to rinse.

 

You can get an electric flush version of the same loo, however our friends have that one and it fills the tank in no time at all.

 

Edit to add: £60 better off spent in the pub

Edited February 18, 2010 by Phylis

[WotEver]

The post you have quoted was in reply to Wotever, who claims that emptying any pump out toilet is akin to emptying 50 crap cassettes plus 50 crap cassettes of water. Obviously not true.

Of course, that should have read 50 cassettes of water and poo; a total of 50 cassettes, not a total of 100 cassettes.

 

The fact that you have a tiny crap tank doesn't mean that everyone else does, Phylis, as Patrick has already covered.

 

Tony

[Scooby]

No. It draws water from the river so we dont use that and instead give it a quick squirt with the jet wash shower to rinse.

 

You can get an electric flush version of the same loo, however our friends have that one and it fills the tank in no time at all.

 

Edit to add: £60 better off spent in the pub

 

Thats funny, you actually use shower to rinse bowl out, errr hope you dont touch anything down the pan or you could end up washing yourself in it. i have what was invented many many moons ago called a button to press,

 

Well i wouldnt swap my pumpout loo for shower rinsing and twice as much trips to the pumpout spot for one night in the pub,

[luctor et emergo]

errr no, some very large holding tanks

 

Ripple has two, each approx 20 cubic feet, round figures say 40 cubic feet or 4 cubic metres. A cubic metres is 1000 litres by volume, and if it's sewage weights well over a tonne.

 

The list gets unacceptable if they are both full!

 

 

4 cubic meters times 1000 liters?? That would be 4000 liters... That is one holding tank, Patrick.... no argument about the list.

[Naughty Cal]

Thats funny, you actually use shower to rinse bowl out, errr hope you dont touch anything down the pan or you could end up washing yourself in it. i have what was invented many many moons ago called a button to press,

 

Well i wouldnt swap my pumpout loo for shower rinsing and twice as much trips to the pumpout spot for one night in the pub,

 

The shower neednt go anywhere near the loo. Its powerful enough to spray it from where it is normally stashed.

 

The "pump out spot" is the tidal trent, we go on a regular basis anyway so iti snt an uneccesary journey. Id rather spend my £60 in the pub and have a good night out.

[luctor et emergo]

Anorak here, 40 cu ft = 1.16 cu mtrs = 250 gal = 1125 lts =2500lbs = 1.16 tons = 1.111 tonnes

 

 

That is still one hell of a holding tank. where do you fit that, other than under the floor, instead of ballast? I mean, that is the equivalent of an IBC container.

 

 

The shower neednt go anywhere near the loo. Its powerful enough to spray it from where it is normally stashed.

 

The "pump out spot" is the tidal trent, we go on a regular basis anyway so iti snt an uneccesary journey. Id rather spend my £60 in the pub and have a good night out.

 

 

I hope you pick the outgoing tide....

 

:lol:

[Scooby]

The shower neednt go anywhere near the loo. Its powerful enough to spray it from where it is normally stashed.

 

The "pump out spot" is the tidal trent, we go on a regular basis anyway so iti snt an uneccesary journey. Id rather spend my £60 in the pub and have a good night out.

 

i can go out too cos i have more than £60 to spend lol,

 

and for £10 every 2 months and the convenience of it all to me is brilliant, shame they dont do doggy toilets the same, cos the 12 week old puppy is like a wee machine...i think he would fill it up in a week..

[Scooby]

The shower neednt go anywhere near the loo. Its powerful enough to spray it from where it is normally stashed.

 

The "pump out spot" is the tidal trent, we go on a regular basis anyway so iti snt an uneccesary journey. Id rather spend my £60 in the pub and have a good night out.

 

i can go out too cos i have more than £60 to spend lol,

 

and for £10 every 2 months and the convenience of it all to me is brilliant, shame they dont do doggy toilets the same, cos the 12 week old puppy is like a wee machine...i think he would fill it up in a week..

[blodger]

Agreed, but you said you weren't sure if BW had the right to change the rules. If not BW then who should keep the rules relevant? You've got to have some body or organisation charged with setting and maintaining the rules. If individual boaters are allowed to decide which rules they want to follow and which they don't, then we end up with anarchy.

 

To clarify, I said that BW should not change its rules 'willy nilly' by which I mean not without (for) good evidential reasons and these days, after consultation.

 

I have not grasped how to insert quotes but I was looking back through this thread. You expressed a view that more SPOing rendered Elsans no longer suitable for SPO hence the withdrawing them from that availability. Is this mere conjecture or have you reached that conclusion on the basis of some knowledge?

 

Mayallid seems quite clear that 'suitable' Elsans have been made 'unsuitable' by the simple affixing of notices to that effect.

 

I cannot comprehend why an increasing SPO use renders SPO unsuitable or has moved BW to append such notices though I obviously take on board that Elsan Points were not designed for SPO and leave much to be desired in that direction without repeating previous posts. Is it just successful lobbying by cassetters?

Edited February 18, 2010 by blodger

[magpie patrick]

That is still one hell of a holding tank. where do you fit that, other than under the floor, instead of ballast? I mean, that is the equivalent of an IBC container.

 

I made a mistake in my sums, dividing by the squared factor rather than the cubed, BUT it is still well over a tonne of sewage when full...

 

It was designed for a crew of eight not to need a pump out for two weeks

 

The tanks run (1) from under the loo to under the "vanity unit" in the middle cabin and (2) from under the loo to under the "vanity unit" in the back cabin and then under the double bed.

 

Thanks to tanks like mine, some marinas start charging extra after the first fifteen minutes pumping.

[magnetman]

I made a mistake in my sums, dividing by the squared factor rather than the cubed, BUT it is still well over a tonne of sewage when full...

 

It was designed for a crew of eight not to need a pump out for two weeks

 

The tanks run (1) from under the loo to under the "vanity unit" in the middle cabin and (2) from under the loo to under the "vanity unit" in the back cabin and then under the double bed.

 

Thanks to tanks like mine, some marinas start charging extra after the first fifteen minutes pumping.

 

 

why don't they charge from start to finish? would make more sense.

 

In fact you could even charge for pumping out porta-elsans it'd only take a few seconds, maybe 25p?. on the other hand someone who wanted to pump a ton of 'recycled tesco products' might get charged £25 which would seem only fair as they have 100 times as much product in their tank......

 

they do diesel like that. seems sort of sensible.

[alan_fincher]

Anorak here, 40 cu ft = 1.16 cu mtrs = 250 gal = 1125 lts =2500lbs = 1.16 tons = 1.111 tonnes

 

What density are you using for the contents ?

 

If it were water, surely 1 cubic metre would be one metric tonne.

 

So 1.16 cu mtrs ought to be 1.16 tonnes ?

 

Have you used a hydrometer to mesure the specify gravity of your holding tank ?

[Keeping Up]

I hate tonnes. They're the same as tons, except that they're foreign.

[jelunga]

I hate tonnes. They're the same as tons, except that they're foreign.

No they are not. 1 tonne =1000kg.

1 ton = 1016kg.

 

So it can be seen that a (long) ton does not equal a tonne.

 

Tonnes are very useful. For example there are 34,722.222222222222222222222222222 shhets of SRA2 100gsm paper in a tonne. (.45x.64 x 100gsm= 28.8 kg/1000 sheets. 1000kg /28.3 = 34.722 sheets per tonne) A quite simple calculation. Now try that using imperial units - takes a long tme!.

 

That is why the paper trade went metric before almost every other lne of business.

 

Sorry for spilling mostakes - too mus vine.

 

Keeth

[Keeping Up]

No they are not. 1 tonne =1000kg.

1 ton = 1016kg.

I'm an Engineer not a physicist. I don't do that many decimal places.

[mayalld]

To clarify, I said that BW should not change its rules 'willy nilly' by which I mean not without (for) good evidential reasons and these days, after consultation.

 

I have not grasped how to insert quotes but I was looking back through this thread. You expressed a view that more SPOing rendered Elsans no longer suitable for SPO hence the withdrawing them from that availability. Is this mere conjecture or have you reached that conclusion on the basis of some knowledge?

 

Mayallid seems quite clear that 'suitable' Elsans have been made 'unsuitable' by the simple affixing of notices to that effect.

 

I cannot comprehend why an increasing SPO use renders SPO unsuitable or has moved BW to append such notices though I obviously take on board that Elsan Points were not designed for SPO and leave much to be desired in that direction without repeating previous posts. Is it just successful lobbying by cassetters?

 

To be clear on this;

 

I am satisfied that in most cases the "Unsuitable for SPO" means that the sanitary station is genuinely unsuitable. I do, however, accept that there will be some cases where BW have made a sani-station no-SPO for other reasons.

 

As to why increasing SPO use increases the number of sanitary stations that are unsuitable for SPO.....

 

Apart from those sanitary stations that are connected to particularly small septic tanks, most sanitary stations CAN cope with the overload caused by the occasional self pump-out.

 

When SPO was a rarity, and the sani station got such a load once a week, it could cope. As SPO becomes more widespread, and we move towards one a day, it can no longer cope.

 

What are BW supposed (realistically) to do? The sanitary station can only accomodate one SPO a week, and 7 people want to do a SPO. It isn't going to work, so they prohibit SPO.