Morris "Golden Film" SAE20W/50 Classic Motor oil

[alan_fincher]

I'm not an old enough hand at this to know the history, but from what I can understand from the phone call I had with Morris the other day.

 

There used to be a "Golden Film" range, but that got replaced by other labels, including "Supreme".

 

Now it seems they have decided to drop the Supreme name, and re-introduce a Golden Film.

 

From their web-site all the following claim to be suitable for "marine" use".....

 

Golden Film 10W/40 for Canal Boats (API CC/SF)

 

Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Oil (API SF/CC)

 

Golden Film SAE 30 Classic Oil (API CC/SD)

 

Golden Film SAE 40 Classic Oil (API CC/SD)

 

Golden Film SAE 50 Classic Oil (API CC/SD)

 

All are in plastic containers for a 5 litre size, as you suggest.

 

 

Incidentally, all the above oils, plus SAE20 and SAE10 monogrades of the Golden Film are also sold by them for "Vintage Cars and vans".

[frangar]

I use Morris SAE 20 in my JP2....as recommended by Lister....makes starting easier the SAE 30 and I still get good oil pressure when hot..however my local agricultural merchant does the Morris range cheaper than you can get it from Morris and is a nice bloke to boot!...(HAMS is Mkt Harborough if anyone is interested!!)...Also I quite like to plastic containers..they pour much better!!..

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[alan_fincher]

Right,

 

It seems you get a more accurate answer from Morris if you e-mail them than the rather vague answer I got when I phoned in the query.

 

I have just received this.....

 

Hi Alan

 

We can confirm that our Golden Film Sae 20W/50 meets API SF/CC as quoted on both the website and on our technical data sheet. Unfortunately we had a batch of incorrectly marked labels which is why there is a discrepancy.

 

Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

Regards

 

I'm satisfied, it will be going in!

 

One small point, not that it anything like makes up the cost difference to something like a Morris oil.

 

Some have assumed that the oils like the B&Q "Carlube Daytona" one are being priced by the 5 litres. In fact, according to their web-site the pack size is 4.5 litres, so 10% less than in a "standard" 5 litre can. (So equivalent to about £11.09 for 5 litres, when comparing).

 

(Some of the "Imperialists" might however be happier with that measure, as it is closer to a "real" gallon! ).

[churchward]

Right,

 

It seems you get a more accurate answer from Morris if you e-mail them than the rather vague answer I got when I phoned in the query.

 

I have just received this.....

 

 

 

I'm satisfied, it will be going in!

 

One small point, not that it anything like makes up the cost difference to something like a Morris oil.

 

Some have assumed that the oils like the B&Q "Carlube Daytona" one are being priced by the 5 litres. In fact, according to their web-site the pack size is 4.5 litres, so 10% less than in a "standard" 5 litre can. (So equivalent to about £11.09 for 5 litres, when comparing).

 

(Some of the "Imperialists" might however be happier with that measure, as it is closer to a "real" gallon! ).

Thing is though part of what you are paying for with the Morris oil is that it is a far better refined base oil in the first place than the cheaper stuff like the B&Q offering. Not all oils are equal. I bet the Morris oil smells quite sweet and clear (I have often used the 20W50 classic spec in my Morris') where a lot of cheap oils will smell a bit cooked and unpleasant rather more like a gear oil. This will be the quality of the base oil.

[steamraiser2]

Some of the comments regarding engine oil are a little wide of the mark. Be very careful with the "budget" oils typically sold in the supermarkets. Yes a lot of them do not smell very nice , which is hardly surprising as they are made from recycled oil. Its been centrifuged to remove the particulates but smells because the tars and varnish is still in it. Its a totally false economy to use it. You get what you pay for. Not much for not much!

 

As a general rule modern engines are happy with multigrade oils while vintage motors ,JP Listers etc do not need them , in fact its a bad thing. The older engines without full flow oil filters depend on the particulate settling out into the sump in the form of sludge. Detergent oils are coded by the identifier CE CF etc.. the higher up the alphabet the second letter is the more detergent it is. Detergent oils carry the particulate in it until it can be filtered out by the oil filter. Good with a modern engine but very bad news for an older type as you are carrying the solids around the engine all the time.

 

CC oils are becoming harder to get because they simply are not detergent enough for modern engines. So with a modern engine use the grade recommended by the manufacturer ensuring its a quality oil. The same applies to the mongrades for old engines. Morris Oils are very good, they are specialists in the non mass market oil sector. You can use their oil with confidence. Supemarket oils... don't go there. A pound saved on a cheap oil is a pound wated in the long term.

[DHutch]

Some of the comments regarding engine oil are a little wide of the mark. Be very careful with the "budget" oils typically sold in the supermarkets. Yes a lot of them do not smell very nice , which is hardly surprising as they are made from recycled oil. Its been centrifuged to remove the particulates but smells because the tars and varnish is still in it. Its a totally false economy to use it. You get what you pay for. Not much for not much!

I agree, i have bought some once. It was the cheapest on the shelf at the motorfactors (parkersparts) i was surprised and also sceptically when he said 'you dont want to buy that, its old oil in a new bottle' but the smell on opening is unmistakable.

- Actually i did want to buy it and i was actually almost pleased it was not virgin oil as i only needed a pint to get my (with car) to the westfeild monthly meet 20minutes up the road to the clock at shardlow as although the oil was running low i knew i was going to change the oil that weekend.

 

However i do think its a bit outragious that this isnt stated on the bottle at all anywhere, not even in the small print.

 

 

Daniel

[soldthehouse]

Some of the comments regarding engine oil are a little wide of the mark. Be very careful with the "budget" oils typically sold in the supermarkets. Yes a lot of them do not smell very nice , which is hardly surprising as they are made from recycled oil. Its been centrifuged to remove the particulates but smells because the tars and varnish is still in it. Its a totally false economy to use it. You get what you pay for. Not much for not much!

 

As a general rule modern engines are happy with multigrade oils while vintage motors ,JP Listers etc do not need them , in fact its a bad thing. The older engines without full flow oil filters depend on the particulate settling out into the sump in the form of sludge. Detergent oils are coded by the identifier CE CF etc.. the higher up the alphabet the second letter is the more detergent it is. Detergent oils carry the particulate in it until it can be filtered out by the oil filter. Good with a modern engine but very bad news for an older type as you are carrying the solids around the engine all the time.

 

CC oils are becoming harder to get because they simply are not detergent enough for modern engines. So with a modern engine use the grade recommended by the manufacturer ensuring its a quality oil. The same applies to the mongrades for old engines. Morris Oils are very good, they are specialists in the non mass market oil sector. You can use their oil with confidence. Supemarket oils... don't go there. A pound saved on a cheap oil is a pound wated in the long term.

Good post Ive learnt more from this than reading many others.. thanks

[chas cass]

Good post Ive learnt more from this than reading many others.. thanks

 

found this article whilst running classic motorcycles, not sure if it helps

 

 

Techniques: The Oil Truth

Home -> Tech -> Insider Info ->

 

There are probably more myths and misconceptions about oil and lubrication than any other subject in motorcycling. Gerry Bristow attempts to set straight some of the errors that masquerade as facts...

 

What oil has to do

 

The primary function of oil is to prevent metal to metal contact by introducing a film of oil between the various bearing surfaces, which have many different requirements as far as oil is concerned. Taking a few examples found in a motorcycle engine, there are roller bearings which are virtually frictionless and therefore require little lubrication in the normal sense but benefit from the 'cushioning' effect of the oil film. Roller bearings usually fail by compression fatigue. As the bearing rotates, No gaskets were harmed during the making of this article.the track is being continually loaded and unloaded as the rollers pass along its surface. In a process known as galling, flakes of the surface will eventually separate. Ball bearings suffer the same problem but more so because of the higher loading for a given size and they also have a degree of sliding contact. Ingress of foreign matter in either type of bearing is fatal.

 

More severe conditions occur between the cams and cam followers, where there is high and constantly fluctuating loading and between piston rings and cylinder and valves and guides where the temperature is high. All these situations require a flow of oil rather than high pressure, whereas plain big end bearings and bushes also require pressure to maintain the oil film.

 

Other important functions are heat dispersal and the removal of the products of wear and combustion which are either collected by the oil filter, if fitted, or carried in the oil as microscopic particles too small to cause problems. If they are large enough to be deposited in the sump it's probably too late to be worrying about what kind of oil you're using!

 

Detergency

 

This is probably the most misunderstood of all commonly used terminology. I've always thought that it's an unfortunate choice of name because it conjures up visions of a powerful cleaning action like some household cleaner, whereas all it actually does is prevent microscopic particles from sticking together and forming the dreaded sludge. It won't dislodge great dollops of the stuff and block up the oil ways as is sometimes claimed and anything small enough to pass through the filter is too small to cause damage to bearings etc.

 

The six most important properties of engine oil

 

These are: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (usually referred to as zinc for obvious reasons), and % sulphated ash.

 

ViscosityGoes in clean, comes out dirty...

 

Viscosity is the measure of thickness of the oil. Too low a viscosity and the oil may shear and will lose film strength at high temperatures. If too thick, it will not circulate at low temperatures. The SAE ratings given to oils are numbers assigned by SAE International, formerly the Society of Automotive Engineers. If you look at the graph you will see that they represent a range of viscosities. The 'w' indicates that the viscosity was measured at 32 oF (0 oC) a hangover from the days when a thinner oil was used in winter. Of course no one does that nowadays do they?

 

It's also apparent that two oils labelled 20w-50 can have quite different characteristics according to where in the range their viscosity falls. In the 'good old days' Duckhams Q20-50 was in the middle of the 20w band and the 50 band. Some others were not so honest and a 15w classification was introduced to give the lower viscosity rating more credibility -- or was it so that the major oil companies didn't have to label their oil 20w-50, which to most people meant Duckhams?

 

Another interesting thing to note is what happens at really high temperatures. The 20w-50 oil retains its viscosity much better than a 50 monograde and temperatures in an engine can reach 350 to 400 F, in the piston ring grooves for example.

 

VI and how multigrade works

 

Multigrade graphTo produce a multigrade mineral oil, polymers are added to a light oil, say SAE 20. At low temperatures the polymers are coiled up and do not restrict the flow, but as the temperature rises they unwind so that at 100 oC (212 oF) the viscosity is equivalent to SAE 50. There is more than one way of achieving this result. The best quality base oils have a higher VI, which is the rate at which the oils' viscosity falls as temperature rises within a given temperature range. This means that less polymer is required to achieve the same result. As it's the oil that does the lubricating, not the polymer, this is obviously preferable and as the polymer also degrades in use the less present to start with the better.

 

A good quality engine oil will have a relatively low level of polymers and some synthetic oils have such a high VI that they don't need any. Generally the lower the viscosity of the base oil, the more polymer it requires. 10w-40 needs more than 20w-50 for instance, and polymers can shear and burn, thus creating deposits which can cause valves and piston rings to stick. A good quality oil will typically lose up to 20% of its' viscosity in 1000 miles running, the rate of loss then slows and the life of the oil is about 3000 miles in normal use.

Viscosity rating chart

 

Flashpoint

 

This is the temperature at which combustible vapours are given off. The lower the flash point, the greater the tendency to vapourisation loss at high temperatures and to burn in contact with the hot piston crown, valves etc, resulting in varnish-like deposits. Flash point is measured in degrees F, the higher the better, and needs to be above 400 oF to limit consumption.

 

Pour point

 

This is given as 5 oF above the temperature at which the oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This is very important in winter and additives called pour point depressants are used to increase fluidity at low temperature.

 

% zinc

 

Make sure you get the right pour point.This is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure anti-wear additive. This only comes into play as a last resort when the oil boundary layer has broken down and metal to metal contact occurs. Hopefully this only happens rarely, but when it does the zinc compound combines with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. About 0.11% to 0.12% zinc is the optimum. More is not better, it just lasts longer and excessive concentrations can actually lead to increased wear, the formation of deposits and sparking plug fouling.

 

% sulphated ash

 

This is how much solid material is left when the oil is burned. High ash content forms more sludge and deposits in the engine and causes increased valve wear.

 

Reading the label on the can

 

All of the above values are obtainable from any reputable oil company, but only tell part of the story. The type of base oil used, the type, quality and proportions of additives used are just as important. If you read the small print on a can of engine oil you will find a number of specifications which the oil is designed to meet. The minimum to look for on mineral oil is API SG/CD where API is the American Petroleum Institute, S means it's for petrol engines and G indicates the type of additive package, CD means it's also suitable for some diesels.

 

This is important if you use own brand oils, Tesco, Halfords etc. They're OK but the problem is that they're not always the same -- the business is put out to contract periodically and whoever quotes the best price supplies the next batch. They're supposed to be to the same spec, but who knows?

 

Synthetic oils

 

CB350 not shown.(Only kidding, Paul)These have been developed over the last 30 years initially to cope with the extremes of temperature experienced in high altitude jet engines and space vehicles. They are made from synthetic base fluids -- polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters -- plus an additive package. PAOs are made by chemically inserting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length and shape that remain liquid and slippery under a wide range of conditions. These are combined with esters, which are compounds formed by the reaction of alcohol and certain acids.

 

Synthetic oils have a number of advantages over the old dead dinosaur juice and, used correctly, virtually eliminate wear caused by friction. Partly because they use little or no polymers, they retain their viscosity much longer, have a higher flash point (typically around 500 oF), a lower pour point [around - 60 oF] and, because the esters molecules carry an electrical charge, they cling to the metal surfaces in the engine indefinitely and provide lubrication on start up. There are also none of the waxes and other unwanted constituents found in mineral oil. Unfortunately these desirable qualities come at a price. Synthetics are up to three times the price of conventional oil but can also last three times as long, so the long term cost is not so different, in any case the annual cost of oil is small compared to the total running costs.

 

If Norton recommended 50 grade oil for my dads' 1932 16H, it was because that was the best available at the time. It's not a reason for not using the best available today, and by 1970 they were recommending 20w-50. All the evidence points to the fact that the correct viscosity range for air cooled bike engines is provided by 15w/50 or 20w/50 oil, ( Duckhams Q20-50 was specifically designed for motorcycles, it was only by accident that it was found to benefit cars, but that's another story) and the best and longest lasting protection is provided by synthetic oil.

 

Recommendations

 

First, if you don't already have one, fit a proper filter. If you're worried about maintaining the original appearance, you can hide it in the toolbox.

 

In all the independent tests I've seen nothing has ever beaten Mobil 1. Mobil produce a 20w-50 synthetic oil for bikes called 'Mobil 1 V-Twin' which would be my first choice if I could get it, but it's only available in the US and they don't plan to introduce it in the UK at present. In the UK they sell 'Mobil 1 Racing 4T' which is 15w-50 and is suitable for all air-cooled bikes. It's a pity about the name, which sends the wrong message. There is also Mobil 1 15w-50, which is intended for cars, and is to SJ specification. As most of the motorcycle specific oils on the market are simply relabelled car oil, I'm not bothered about this and after using it for some 5 years in my Commando I'm very pleased with the results.

 

If you wish to change from one kind of oil to another it's not necessary to clean out the engine, unless it's dismantled of course, and don't use flushing oil as it's usually mostly paraffin (kerosene) and no matter how careful you are, some of it will be left in the engine and will contaminate the new oil.

 

Running In

 

If you've just rebuilt your engine and decide to use synthetic oil then don't use it whilst running-in, it will take forever. Better to use a good quality 20w-50 mineral oil for the first 1000 miles or so and then change to synthetic.

 

Additives

 

This is a whole separate subject, but can be dealt with very briefly. Don't! They are designed to make money, not to improve the performance of your oil. There's nothing wrong with that of course if they'd write it on the tin instead of the fictitious claims of less wear, better fuel consumption, success with girls etc.

 

We all want to believe in magic; it's a pity you can't buy it in a tin.

 

Gerry Bristow spent most of his working life in the oil industry, with Duckhams, BP and others.

 

thanks to real classic

 

chas

[journeyperson]

CC oils are becoming harder to get because they simply are not detergent enough for modern engines. So with a modern engine use the grade recommended by the manufacturer ensuring its a quality oil. The same applies to the mongrades for old engines. Morris Oils are very good, they are specialists in the non mass market oil sector. You can use their oil with confidence. Supemarket oils... don't go there. A pound saved on a cheap oil is a pound wated in the long term.

 

It may sound as though I have a vested interest in Carlube or B&Q, which I don't, but I don't think it is universally true that cheap "supermarket oils" are crap. I have used Carlube semi-synthetic oil in my cars for years and I am happy to use their basic Daytona oil in my boat. It smells fine, looks like golden syrup and retains its viscosity well.

Edited January 23, 2010 by journeyperson

[soldthehouse]

found this article whilst running classic motorcycles, not sure if it helps

 

 

Techniques: The Oil Truth

Home -> Tech -> Insider Info ->

 

There are probably more myths and misconceptions about oil and lubrication than any other subject in motorcycling. Gerry Bristow attempts to set straight some of the errors that masquerade as facts...

 

What oil has to do

 

The primary function of oil is to prevent metal to metal contact by introducing a film of oil between the various bearing surfaces, which have many different requirements as far as oil is concerned. Taking a few examples found in a motorcycle engine, there are roller bearings which are virtually frictionless and therefore require little lubrication in the normal sense but benefit from the 'cushioning' effect of the oil film. Roller bearings usually fail by compression fatigue. As the bearing rotates, No gaskets were harmed during the making of this article.the track is being continually loaded and unloaded as the rollers pass along its surface. In a process known as galling, flakes of the surface will eventually separate. Ball bearings suffer the same problem but more so because of the higher loading for a given size and they also have a degree of sliding contact. Ingress of foreign matter in either type of bearing is fatal.

 

More severe conditions occur between the cams and cam followers, where there is high and constantly fluctuating loading and between piston rings and cylinder and valves and guides where the temperature is high. All these situations require a flow of oil rather than high pressure, whereas plain big end bearings and bushes also require pressure to maintain the oil film.

 

Other important functions are heat dispersal and the removal of the products of wear and combustion which are either collected by the oil filter, if fitted, or carried in the oil as microscopic particles too small to cause problems. If they are large enough to be deposited in the sump it's probably too late to be worrying about what kind of oil you're using!

 

Detergency

 

This is probably the most misunderstood of all commonly used terminology. I've always thought that it's an unfortunate choice of name because it conjures up visions of a powerful cleaning action like some household cleaner, whereas all it actually does is prevent microscopic particles from sticking together and forming the dreaded sludge. It won't dislodge great dollops of the stuff and block up the oil ways as is sometimes claimed and anything small enough to pass through the filter is too small to cause damage to bearings etc.

 

The six most important properties of engine oil

 

These are: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (usually referred to as zinc for obvious reasons), and % sulphated ash.

 

ViscosityGoes in clean, comes out dirty...

 

Viscosity is the measure of thickness of the oil. Too low a viscosity and the oil may shear and will lose film strength at high temperatures. If too thick, it will not circulate at low temperatures. The SAE ratings given to oils are numbers assigned by SAE International, formerly the Society of Automotive Engineers. If you look at the graph you will see that they represent a range of viscosities. The 'w' indicates that the viscosity was measured at 32 oF (0 oC) a hangover from the days when a thinner oil was used in winter. Of course no one does that nowadays do they?

 

It's also apparent that two oils labelled 20w-50 can have quite different characteristics according to where in the range their viscosity falls. In the 'good old days' Duckhams Q20-50 was in the middle of the 20w band and the 50 band. Some others were not so honest and a 15w classification was introduced to give the lower viscosity rating more credibility -- or was it so that the major oil companies didn't have to label their oil 20w-50, which to most people meant Duckhams?

 

Another interesting thing to note is what happens at really high temperatures. The 20w-50 oil retains its viscosity much better than a 50 monograde and temperatures in an engine can reach 350 to 400 F, in the piston ring grooves for example.

 

VI and how multigrade works

 

Multigrade graphTo produce a multigrade mineral oil, polymers are added to a light oil, say SAE 20. At low temperatures the polymers are coiled up and do not restrict the flow, but as the temperature rises they unwind so that at 100 oC (212 oF) the viscosity is equivalent to SAE 50. There is more than one way of achieving this result. The best quality base oils have a higher VI, which is the rate at which the oils' viscosity falls as temperature rises within a given temperature range. This means that less polymer is required to achieve the same result. As it's the oil that does the lubricating, not the polymer, this is obviously preferable and as the polymer also degrades in use the less present to start with the better.

 

A good quality engine oil will have a relatively low level of polymers and some synthetic oils have such a high VI that they don't need any. Generally the lower the viscosity of the base oil, the more polymer it requires. 10w-40 needs more than 20w-50 for instance, and polymers can shear and burn, thus creating deposits which can cause valves and piston rings to stick. A good quality oil will typically lose up to 20% of its' viscosity in 1000 miles running, the rate of loss then slows and the life of the oil is about 3000 miles in normal use.

Viscosity rating chart

 

Flashpoint

 

This is the temperature at which combustible vapours are given off. The lower the flash point, the greater the tendency to vapourisation loss at high temperatures and to burn in contact with the hot piston crown, valves etc, resulting in varnish-like deposits. Flash point is measured in degrees F, the higher the better, and needs to be above 400 oF to limit consumption.

 

Pour point

 

This is given as 5 oF above the temperature at which the oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This is very important in winter and additives called pour point depressants are used to increase fluidity at low temperature.

 

% zinc

 

Make sure you get the right pour point.This is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure anti-wear additive. This only comes into play as a last resort when the oil boundary layer has broken down and metal to metal contact occurs. Hopefully this only happens rarely, but when it does the zinc compound combines with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. About 0.11% to 0.12% zinc is the optimum. More is not better, it just lasts longer and excessive concentrations can actually lead to increased wear, the formation of deposits and sparking plug fouling.

 

% sulphated ash

 

This is how much solid material is left when the oil is burned. High ash content forms more sludge and deposits in the engine and causes increased valve wear.

 

Reading the label on the can

 

All of the above values are obtainable from any reputable oil company, but only tell part of the story. The type of base oil used, the type, quality and proportions of additives used are just as important. If you read the small print on a can of engine oil you will find a number of specifications which the oil is designed to meet. The minimum to look for on mineral oil is API SG/CD where API is the American Petroleum Institute, S means it's for petrol engines and G indicates the type of additive package, CD means it's also suitable for some diesels.

 

This is important if you use own brand oils, Tesco, Halfords etc. They're OK but the problem is that they're not always the same -- the business is put out to contract periodically and whoever quotes the best price supplies the next batch. They're supposed to be to the same spec, but who knows?

 

Synthetic oils

 

CB350 not shown.(Only kidding, Paul)These have been developed over the last 30 years initially to cope with the extremes of temperature experienced in high altitude jet engines and space vehicles. They are made from synthetic base fluids -- polyalphaolefins (PAOs) and esters -- plus an additive package. PAOs are made by chemically inserting molecules of ethylene into carbon chains of uniform length and shape that remain liquid and slippery under a wide range of conditions. These are combined with esters, which are compounds formed by the reaction of alcohol and certain acids.

 

Synthetic oils have a number of advantages over the old dead dinosaur juice and, used correctly, virtually eliminate wear caused by friction. Partly because they use little or no polymers, they retain their viscosity much longer, have a higher flash point (typically around 500 oF), a lower pour point [around - 60 oF] and, because the esters molecules carry an electrical charge, they cling to the metal surfaces in the engine indefinitely and provide lubrication on start up. There are also none of the waxes and other unwanted constituents found in mineral oil. Unfortunately these desirable qualities come at a price. Synthetics are up to three times the price of conventional oil but can also last three times as long, so the long term cost is not so different, in any case the annual cost of oil is small compared to the total running costs.

 

If Norton recommended 50 grade oil for my dads' 1932 16H, it was because that was the best available at the time. It's not a reason for not using the best available today, and by 1970 they were recommending 20w-50. All the evidence points to the fact that the correct viscosity range for air cooled bike engines is provided by 15w/50 or 20w/50 oil, ( Duckhams Q20-50 was specifically designed for motorcycles, it was only by accident that it was found to benefit cars, but that's another story) and the best and longest lasting protection is provided by synthetic oil.

 

Recommendations

 

First, if you don't already have one, fit a proper filter. If you're worried about maintaining the original appearance, you can hide it in the toolbox.

 

In all the independent tests I've seen nothing has ever beaten Mobil 1. Mobil produce a 20w-50 synthetic oil for bikes called 'Mobil 1 V-Twin' which would be my first choice if I could get it, but it's only available in the US and they don't plan to introduce it in the UK at present. In the UK they sell 'Mobil 1 Racing 4T' which is 15w-50 and is suitable for all air-cooled bikes. It's a pity about the name, which sends the wrong message. There is also Mobil 1 15w-50, which is intended for cars, and is to SJ specification. As most of the motorcycle specific oils on the market are simply relabelled car oil, I'm not bothered about this and after using it for some 5 years in my Commando I'm very pleased with the results.

 

If you wish to change from one kind of oil to another it's not necessary to clean out the engine, unless it's dismantled of course, and don't use flushing oil as it's usually mostly paraffin (kerosene) and no matter how careful you are, some of it will be left in the engine and will contaminate the new oil.

 

Running In

 

If you've just rebuilt your engine and decide to use synthetic oil then don't use it whilst running-in, it will take forever. Better to use a good quality 20w-50 mineral oil for the first 1000 miles or so and then change to synthetic.

 

Additives

 

This is a whole separate subject, but can be dealt with very briefly. Don't! They are designed to make money, not to improve the performance of your oil. There's nothing wrong with that of course if they'd write it on the tin instead of the fictitious claims of less wear, better fuel consumption, success with girls etc.

 

We all want to believe in magic; it's a pity you can't buy it in a tin.

 

Gerry Bristow spent most of his working life in the oil industry, with Duckhams, BP and others.

 

thanks to real classic

 

chas

 

Excellent stuff and a great platform of knowledge to work from, I have good knowledge in some areas but its the grey areas that let us all down, this article fills them all in ,well done.....

[Keeping Up]

The minimum to look for on mineral oil is API SG/CD where API is the American Petroleum Institute, S means it's for petrol engines and G indicates the type of additive package, CD means it's also suitable for some diesels.

Rather at odds with this thread's aim of finding a decent CC grade oil.

[paradime]

Rather at odds with this thread's aim of finding a decent CC grade oil.

 

If anyone lives in or near the Fens, Witham Oil and Paint in Soham do a 10/30 API CC oil for £13.50 a litre. It's called Qualube Series 1 HD. Not sure if it's a stock item so may need to order it http://www.withamgroup.co.uk/ It's the oil I use.

 

Peter

[ditchcrawler]

If anyone lives in or near the Fens, Witham Oil and Paint in Soham do a 10/30 API CC oil for £13.50 a litre. It's called Qualube Series 1 HD. Not sure if it's a stock item so may need to order it http://www.withamgroup.co.uk/ It's the oil I use.

 

Peter

Or Suffolk as they have an outlet in Lowestoft

[NB Alnwick]

Getting back to the original question, I am sure that Morris 'Golden Film' 20W/50 will be just fine for an older BMC 1500cc/1800cc diesel. Morris Lubricants have a long and excellent track record in providing high quality oils for specialist machinery - I used their products for many years and have never had the slightest reason to doubt any advice they have provided about their products.

[OldGoldy]

Some of the comments regarding engine oil are a little wide of the mark. Be very careful with the "budget" oils typically sold in the supermarkets. Yes a lot of them do not smell very nice , which is hardly surprising as they are made from recycled oil. Its been centrifuged to remove the particulates but smells because the tars and varnish is still in it. Its a totally false economy to use it. You get what you pay for. Not much for not much!.................................

 

 

Techniques: The Oil Truth

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There are probably more myths and misconceptions about oil and lubrication than any other subject in motorcycling. Gerry Bristow attempts to set straight some of the errors that masquerade as facts...

 

What oil has to do.....................................

 

Agree with soldthehouse on this one. It's greatly increased my understanding of lubricants. With the exception of the difference between mineral and synthetic, single and multigrade, 10W-40 and 20W-50, I thought oil was oil was oil.

 

Now I know better - Steamraiser2 and chas cass, thank you both!

[andywatson]

Some of the comments regarding engine oil are a little wide of the mark. Be very careful with the "budget" oils typically sold in the supermarkets. Yes a lot of them do not smell very nice , which is hardly surprising as they are made from recycled oil. Its been centrifuged to remove the particulates but smells because the tars and varnish is still in it. Its a totally false economy to use it. You get what you pay for. Not much for not much!

 

As a general rule modern engines are happy with multigrade oils while vintage motors ,JP Listers etc do not need them , in fact its a bad thing. The older engines without full flow oil filters depend on the particulate settling out into the sump in the form of sludge. Detergent oils are coded by the identifier CE CF etc.. the higher up the alphabet the second letter is the more detergent it is. Detergent oils carry the particulate in it until it can be filtered out by the oil filter. Good with a modern engine but very bad news for an older type as you are carrying the solids around the engine all the time.

 

CC oils are becoming harder to get because they simply are not detergent enough for modern engines. So with a modern engine use the grade recommended by the manufacturer ensuring its a quality oil. The same applies to the mongrades for old engines. Morris Oils are very good, they are specialists in the non mass market oil sector. You can use their oil with confidence. Supemarket oils... don't go there. A pound saved on a cheap oil is a pound wated in the long term.

 

I concur with the above especially the point about care buying cheap oils from supermarket or car parts outlets although some major supermarkets have used some good independent oil makers so watch for the API or CCMG spec.

example:

Sainsbury's at one time used Filtrate which became part of Hunting Lubricants (Comma).

Incidentally they were bought out by Exxon ( Esso.)

-Even in a major retail outlet don't buy any oil without an API, (or CCMG etc) spec.

 

In case it hasn't been mentioned anywhere else a good reason for sticking with the (apparently) low spec CC oils rather than the more recent high detergent oils is as follows:

In a vintage engine which has been run on non detergent oils there will be deposits which remain in place in the engine. Introducing a modern hich detergent oil may dissolve and dislodge deposits which can be carried around, not passing through a filter, untill they lodge elsewhere such as an oilway and block it. this could have serious results.

-Therefore if you have a vintage engine which has always run on CC or similar oil do not change to a modern spec.

[Richard T]

Just picked up on this thread - Morris still sell Magnol 20W50 API CC at £60.80 +VAT delivery is free for orders over £50. It can be found in the Vintage car section of their website see link Morris oilsWe have used this on our boat for several years with no problems. Morris have been very efficint with delivery.

[alan_fincher]

Just picked up on this thread - Morris still sell Magnol 20W50 API CC at £60.80 +VAT delivery is free for orders over £50. It can be found in the Vintage car section of their website see link Morris oilsWe have used this on our boat for several years with no problems. Morris have been very efficint with delivery.

Yes,

 

I saw that.

 

It's not entirely obvious from their site what the difference is between Golden Film 20W-50 and Magnol 20W-50.

 

Both list in the same section, both are API-SF/CC.

 

Very little other data appears for the Magnol.

 

The Magnol comes in cheaper, but I decided I really haven't got the storage for 25 litre cans, and it's more convenient to pay a little more and get it in 5 litre containers.

 

My oil turned up very quickly, courier service.

[Byeckerslike]

Yes,

 

I saw that.

 

It's not entirely obvious from their site what the difference is between Golden Film 20W-50 and Magnol 20W-50.

 

Both list in the same section, both are API-SF/CC.

 

Very little other data appears for the Magnol.

 

The Magnol comes in cheaper, but I decided I really haven't got the storage for 25 litre cans, and it's more convenient to pay a little more and get it in 5 litre containers.

 

My oil turned up very quickly, courier service.

 

I store my 25L can in the LHS swim, just in front of the engine room bulkhead Orkney is a Trad Stern NB.

 

Rob

[David Schweizer]

Yes,

 

I saw that.

 

It's not entirely obvious from their site what the difference is between Golden Film 20W-50 and Magnol 20W-50.

 

Both list in the same section, both are API-SF/CC.

 

Very little other data appears for the Magnol.

 

The Magnol comes in cheaper, but I decided I really haven't got the storage for 25 litre cans, and it's more convenient to pay a little more and get it in 5 litre containers.

 

My oil turned up very quickly, courier service.

I buy my oil from Morris in a 25 ltre drum, and decant it into 5 litre cans which I have collected over the years. One is kept on the boat, and the rest in the garge at home. Simples!

[alan_fincher]

I buy my oil from Morris in a 25 ltre drum, and decant it into 5 litre cans which I have collected over the years. One is kept on the boat, and the rest in the garge at home. Simples!

Fair point - I know I could "decant" but my track record on spillage with that type of operation is not the best.

 

I have no idea though how the Golden Film and the Magnol API-CC 20W-50 oils differ in their blending, or whether anything makes one more suitable for a fairly well worn BMC in a narrowboat than the other.

 

I have used Magnol, previously, (or I think it was Magnol ?). For some reason they choose now not to list it amongst their "marine" engine oils. I suspect either is perfectly OK, but have not put the question to Morris.

 

I think you use the SAE 30 monograde Oil David , (presumably Golden Film rather than Supreme now) ? For that there is a useful saving on buying a 25 litre, rather than 5 times 5 litres. But for some reason they only do the 20W-50 Golden Film as 5 litres, so not an option with that particular blending.

[Tony Brooks]

Fair point - I know I could "decant" but my track record on spillage with that type of operation is not the best.

 

I have no idea though how the Golden Film and the Magnol API-CC 20W-50 oils differ in their blending, or whether anything makes one more suitable for a fairly well worn BMC in a narrowboat than the other.

 

snip

 

Unless Morrises come and tell us my suspicion is there is no difference. One is a trade pack and one retail, but then I am very cynical about anything that smacks of marketing.

[WotEver]

I've often wondered what a glazed bore looks like...

[MoominPapa]

Oooh, my specialist subject! Fiat 127 or Mk1 Panda?

 

 

MP.

 

Edited to add: how the hell did you manage to glaze those? Being Italian, they only go at 5500rpm and wide-open-throttle.

Edited February 4, 2010 by MoominPapa

[Ron Knight]

This link might be of interest...

 

http://www.rgracing.co.uk/Castrol_Classic_Oils.htm