Morris "Golden Film" SAE20W/50 Classic Motor oil

[alan_fincher]

OK,

 

Having struggled to buy a suitable API-CC 20W/50 Oil locally, or in several chandlers, I decided to go for a large bulk buy from Morris Lubricants.

 

Online their web-site includes....

 

Morris Lubricants Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil Link

 

which shows the API spec as API SF/CC

 

However, on arrival the gallon containers do not mention marine or diesel applications, (though the word "agricultural" is in the list along with motor cycles and cars), and the container only says

 

Performance Level: API SF/SD.

 

I rang Morris, and the nice man says not to worry, it is fine for compression as well as spark ignition, and it's just they don't put the rating for compression ignition on the packaging.

 

Should I be worried, or can I happily treat my BMC 1800 to a nice refill with "Golden Film" 20W/50 ?

 

(I'm not interested in debates about whether my engine needs a 20W/50 API-CC - I have decided it does - I just want to be sure this is one!)

[journeyperson]

I can't help with the Morris oil, but when you have talked about finding API-CC 20w/50 oil in the past I have suggested Carlube Daytona from B&Q. Have you been unable to find it or do you consider it unsuitable?

 

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...amp;x=5&y=7

Edited January 19, 2010 by journeyperson

[Tony Brooks]

OK,

 

Having struggled to buy a suitable API-CC 20W/50 Oil locally, or in several chandlers, I decided to go for a large bulk buy from Morris Lubricants.

 

Online their web-site includes....

 

Morris Lubricants Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil Link

 

which shows the API spec as API SF/CC

 

However, on arrival the gallon containers do not mention marine or diesel applications, (though the word "agricultural" is in the list along with motor cycles and cars), and the container only says

 

Performance Level: API SF/SD.

 

I rang Morris, and the nice man says not to worry, it is fine for compression as well as spark ignition, and it's just they don't put the rating for compression ignition on the packaging.

 

Should I be worried, or can I happily treat my BMC 1800 to a nice refill with "Golden Film" 20W/50 ?

 

(I'm not interested in debates about whether my engine needs a 20W/50 API-CC - I have decided it does - I just want to be sure this is one!)

 

 

Alan,

 

I notice a lot of the 12W50 oils no longer show the API C rating on the packaging but I suspect that the SF specification is very similar to the specifications for CC but we need someone from the oil industry to confirm that - not just point to the publicly available API listing.

 

Being Morris I suspect their chap is correct but when we start looking at "Formula 1" oils is Supermarkets I am not so sure.

 

Personally I would ask for a letter to that effect .

 

With the increasing difficulty of finding CC rated oil, a gift of a load of CE 15W40 oil plus the assurances about CF given on here by someone who seems to have technical knowledge of the industry I have been trialling 15W40 CF and so far - touch wood - no signs of problems, but early days yet.

[alan_fincher]

I can't help with the Morris oil, but when you have talked about finding API-CC 20w/50 oil in the past I have suggested Carlube Daytona from B&Q. Have you been unable to find it or do you consider it unsuitable?

 

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...amp;x=5&y=7

I've been unable to find it, so far, (in multiple B&Q stores).

 

B&Q's web-site indicated the Watford store should have had stock when we visited, but they said they do not stock it.

 

It's since been suggested it's not found in a motoring section, but I would have expected them to know if they stocked it, wherever it was on the shelves.

[journeyperson]

I've been unable to find it, so far, (in multiple B&Q stores).

 

B&Q's web-site indicated the Watford store should have had stock when we visited, but they said they do not stock it.

 

It's since been suggested it's not found in a motoring section, but I would have expected them to know if they stocked it, wherever it was on the shelves.

 

I always find it in the gardening section. I think they expect it to be used in lawnmowers.

[andywatson]

OK,

 

Having struggled to buy a suitable API-CC 20W/50 Oil locally, or in several chandlers, I decided to go for a large bulk buy from Morris Lubricants.

 

Online their web-site includes....

 

Morris Lubricants Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil Link

 

which shows the API spec as API SF/CC

 

However, on arrival the gallon containers do not mention marine or diesel applications, (though the word "agricultural" is in the list along with motor cycles and cars), and the container only says

 

Performance Level: API SF/SD.

 

I rang Morris, and the nice man says not to worry, it is fine for compression as well as spark ignition, and it's just they don't put the rating for compression ignition on the packaging.

 

Should I be worried, or can I happily treat my BMC 1800 to a nice refill with "Golden Film" 20W/50 ?

 

(I'm not interested in debates about whether my engine needs a 20W/50 API-CC - I have decided it does - I just want to be sure this is one!)

 

I'd trust the bloke from Morris's.

 

Their base oil is likely to be good quality.

 

My logic is this.

In the days of "simpler" oils (such as this one) the additive packs were not so different bewteen compression and spark ignition engines.

It's only the last few years where higher performance engines, low viscosity oils and extended service intevals have dictated sophisticated additive packs that the two duties (and hence specs of c and s) have diverged significantly.

 

EDIT I'd be inclined to put this in and stick with it.

A more likely mismatch would be if you put in a modern diesel specific oil with a high detergent content.

Edited January 19, 2010 by andywatson

[GUMPY]

I'm confused by the need for 10w30 15w40 etc.

In all my engines Ford, Faryman and Beta I use SAE30 this is available in CC without a problem.

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/...p;idProduct=165

I cant see the need for using a multigrade at all as sae30 is good from 0 - 30deg

The API rating is most important in older engines.

Can anyone give me a valid reason to change when SAE30 is fine for UK temperatures.

[andywatson]

I'm confused by the need for 10w30 15w40 etc.

In all my engines Ford, Faryman and Beta I use SAE30 this is available in CC without a problem.

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/...p;idProduct=165

I cant see the need for using a multigrade at all as sae30 is good from 0 - 30deg

The API rating is most important in older engines.

Can anyone give me a valid reason to change when SAE30 is fine for UK temperatures.

 

I can't.

Older engines are fine on monogrades.

I run mine on straight 30.

 

I'd guess that the recent wide multigrade "spreads" eg 0-50+ have been developed as (expensive) synthetic oils with sophisticated additives have been demanded by fuel economy (less circulating friction in the engine) whilst still retaining some viscosty at high temperatures.

[Tony Brooks]

I'm confused by the need for 10w30 15w40 etc.

In all my engines Ford, Faryman and Beta I use SAE30 this is available in CC without a problem.

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/...p;idProduct=165

I cant see the need for using a multigrade at all as sae30 is good from 0 - 30deg

The API rating is most important in older engines.

Can anyone give me a valid reason to change when SAE30 is fine for UK temperatures.

 

 

If the manufacturer/mariniser says that an SAE 30 oil is OK then its OK as long as you are basing its use on the engine room temperature and not the outside air temperature. I am sure my cruiser stern engine room gets well above 30C working hard on a hot day.

 

As far as I can see the main advantage of a multi-grade oil e.g. 15W40 is that it will make it marginally easier for the engine to crank when cold so cold starting should be improved - even if it only reduces the cranking current.

 

The majority of modern engines seem to specify a multi-grade in their manuals but that may simply reflect the base engine manufacturers' specification where they will also be more concerned about fuel economy than we probably are.

 

The API spec is important for ALL engines because it describes how the oil will perform, apart from a possible (not certain) bore glazing issue that probably is only a real concern on inland boats I would suggest that the older engines are the ones that API specs are least important for. That is as long as the inside of the engine is reasonably clean.

[GUMPY]

If the manufacturer/mariniser says that an SAE 30 oil is OK then its OK as long as you are basing its use on the engine room temperature and not the outside air temperature. I am sure my cruiser stern engine room gets well above 30C working hard on a hot day.

 

As far as I can see the main advantage of a multi-grade oil e.g. 15W40 is that it will make it marginally easier for the engine to crank when cold so cold starting should be improved - even if it only reduces the cranking current.

 

The majority of modern engines seem to specify a multi-grade in their manuals but that may simply reflect the base engine manufacturers' specification where they will also be more concerned about fuel economy than we probably are.

 

The API spec is important for ALL engines because it describes how the oil will perform, apart from a possible (not certain) bore glazing issue that probably is only a real concern on inland boats I would suggest that the older engines are the ones that API specs are least important for. That is as long as the inside of the engine is reasonably clean.

 

Nothing there that convinces me I need to change especially as I have no way of knowing the state of the oilways so will stick with SAE30 CC as recommended by Beta (they do also say 15w40 but still a CC).

Interestingly enough Nanni spec 15W40 CD for the same base engine.

[steelaway]

Nothing there that convinces me I need to change especially as I have no way of knowing the state of the oilways so will stick with SAE30 CC as recommended by Beta (they do also say 15w40 but still a CC).

Interestingly enough Nanni spec 15W40 CD for the same base engine.

 

Hi

 

I think lots of people getting a bit annal with regards to NB oil.

I can understand a motorcycle engine revving to 14,000 rpm, with all its tiny oil ways needing some thing special.

I have had many racing engines and they have needed an oil that was over £20 A LITRE!

These are industrial engines with huge oil ways, revving to 2,500 rpm.

To the furums knowledge - when was the last time any engine has had to be stripped because of a glazed bore - seriusly I am interested

 

Alex

[the grinch]

morris 20w50 is all my boat engine ever had (lister HA2) after a few tries with other grades i found it smoked less and stayed hot rather than overheated.

 

edit to say: i used to get it at Fenny on the oxford!

Edited January 19, 2010 by hamsterfan

[journeyperson]

Hi

 

I think lots of people getting a bit annal with regards to NB oil.

I can understand a motorcycle engine revving to 14,000 rpm, with all its tiny oil ways needing some thing special.

I have had many racing engines and they have needed an oil that was over £20 A LITRE!

These are industrial engines with huge oil ways, revving to 2,500 rpm.

To the furums knowledge - when was the last time any engine has had to be stripped because of a glazed bore - seriusly I am interested

 

Alex

 

I've often wondered what a glazed bore looks like and after a lot of searching I managed to find an example.

 

http://www.thistlewoods.net/images/john_major.jpg

[churchward]

OK,

 

Having struggled to buy a suitable API-CC 20W/50 Oil locally, or in several chandlers, I decided to go for a large bulk buy from Morris Lubricants.

 

Online their web-site includes....

 

Morris Lubricants Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil Link

 

which shows the API spec as API SF/CC

 

However, on arrival the gallon containers do not mention marine or diesel applications, (though the word "agricultural" is in the list along with motor cycles and cars), and the container only says

 

Performance Level: API SF/SD.

 

I rang Morris, and the nice man says not to worry, it is fine for compression as well as spark ignition, and it's just they don't put the rating for compression ignition on the packaging.

 

 

Should I be worried, or can I happily treat my BMC 1800 to a nice refill with "Golden Film" 20W/50 ?

 

(I'm not interested in debates about whether my engine needs a 20W/50 API-CC - I have decided it does - I just want to be sure this is one!)

 

 

Tough luck about the API debate as I am interested.

 

However API SF/SD is only as Morris have said the spark ignition spec of the oil however most oil of that level is dual purpose and so SF is fine in our kind of diesel engines such as the BMC and will comply with the compression spec CC you will often see an oil quoted as API SF/CC on the label. The Morris folk are unlikely to give duff advice and there is nothing wrong with this oil if you want API CC spec.

 

Personally for a diesel engine particularly starting from cold in this weather I would prefer a 10W 40 viscosity, Morris do that in Golden film API CC spec too although a bit more expensive. However if your engine is particularly "slack" a 20W50 may be more suitable.

 

 

Hi

 

I think lots of people getting a bit annal with regards to NB oil.

I can understand a motorcycle engine revving to 14,000 rpm, with all its tiny oil ways needing some thing special.

I have had many racing engines and they have needed an oil that was over £20 A LITRE!

These are industrial engines with huge oil ways, revving to 2,500 rpm.

To the furums knowledge - when was the last time any engine has had to be stripped because of a glazed bore - seriusly I am interested

 

Alex

Very rare on any diesel engine of any use these days with modern oils and fuel. What often folk confuse as bore glazing is simple bore wear after long engine hours/mileage which is really bore polishing not bore glazing. Glazing happens when the engine is new and will coat over the cross hatching of the bore honing.

Edited January 19, 2010 by churchward

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Very rare on any diesel engine of any use these days with modern oils and fuel. What often folk confuse as bore glazing is simple bore wear after long engine hours/mileage which is really bore polishing not bore glazing. Glazing happens when the engine is new and will coat over the cross hatching of the bore honing.

 

I have a strange feeling of deja-vu...

 

Richard

[steelaway]

More info ..................................Oil Bible

 

Alex

[bottle]

Nothing there that convinces me I need to change especially as I have no way of knowing the state of the oilways so will stick with SAE30 CC as recommended by Beta (they do also say 15w40 but still a CC).

Interestingly enough Nanni spec 15W40 CD for the same base engine.

 

Just to say that, Beta now recommend API CF for their latest engines.

[churchward]

I have a strange feeling of deja-vu...

 

Richard

Yeah, I have had that before too!

 

Just to say that, Beta now recommend API CF for their latest engines.

Yes they do, same as Kubota did all along. In essance it helps with the emmissions rating of the engine.

[GUMPY]

To the furums knowledge - when was the last time any engine has had to be stripped because of a glazed bore - seriusly I am interested

 

5 years ago I changed my engine as it was cheaper than rebuilding it.

It had been use as a battery charger for 4 years by the previous owner, not a good thing to do with a 6cyl 120hp ford!

[David Schweizer]

I've been unable to find it, so far, (in multiple B&Q stores).

B&Q's web-site indicated the Watford store should have had stock when we visited, but they said they do not stock it.

 

It's since been suggested it's not found in a motoring section, but I would have expected them to know if they stocked it, wherever it was on the shelves.

They had about ten 5ltr containers of the stuff at the Trowbridge branch yesterday, £9.98 each. Mind you, judging from the amount of dust on the containers, they have been in the warehouse for a long time.

Edited January 20, 2010 by David Schweizer

[Mukiwa]

Golden Film 10W/40 for Canal Boats

Golden Film SAE 10W/40 is a high quality multigrade engine oil designed for use in canal boats.

The additive level has been chosen and optimised to prevent bore glazing or bore polishing, whilst keeping engine components clean and protecting them from wear and corrosion.

The SAE 10W/40 classification makes the lubricant suitable for use in all canal boat engines where a SAE 15W/40 may be required. SAE 10W/40 will flow more rapidly at low temperatures providing improved component protection.

 

 

 

Performance Level API CC/SF

 

The above is a direct quote from the Morris Lubricants website.

[alan_fincher]

Golden Film 10W/40 for Canal Boats

 

Performance Level API CC/SF

 

The above is a direct quote from the Morris Lubricants website.

Yes, aware of that thanks!

 

In fact I'm talking about the 20W/50, rather than the 10W-40, which although it is not explicitly badged as "for Canal Boats, still appears in the "Marine section", (as well as other categories like vintage cars).

 

For that the site says:

 

Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil is specialist high quality, low detergent/dispersant multigrade lubricant. This oil is suitable for use in naturally aspirated four stroke petrol and diesel engines.

 

Applications

Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil is recommended for use in veteran, classic and vintage cars, motorcycles, commercial vehicles and tractors, where engine design and tolerances prohibit the use of modern high additive level oils. Modern dispersant additives keep combustion chamber contamination suspended in the lubricant, allowing full flow cartridge filters to remove it. Early oil filtration, usually in the form of a mesh gauze or strainer, is not efficient enough to remove this suspended material. Golden Film SAE 20W/50 Classic Motor Oil is a low dispersant oil and allows the suspended matter to drop harmlessly into the sump.

The multigrade properties of Golden Film SAE 20W/50 provide improved cold start circulation whilst maintaining good working oil pressure.

 

Performance Levels

API SF/CC

 

I'm quite happy with all that.

 

But the containers supplied actually say

 

Performance Level API SF/SD

 

My query is simply that the on-line stuff mentions an API-CC (i.e. compression diesel) spec, but that the container sent to me omits it, and has no reference to use in diesels at all.

 

People seem to be agreeing that I should not be concerned about that, I think, but I'm a cautious type, so may try further contact with Morris, to see if they'll write it down for me!

[DHutch]

If you want to spend money on an 20W/50 i buy Valvoline VR1 for the kitcar.

Cert'ed to API SM/SL/SJ/SH/CD and they also do a SAE 30, 40 and 50 which meet the same as well as come synthetic oils that are nearly twice the price per litre and come in the infamous modern 4l gallons rather than 5l. Certainly good and thick when you pour it out.

 

But no, i have to say i would say stick it in.

Morris are fairly good, odd its not on the packaging, but if its on the website and the man on the phone says its i have to admit i would be happy with that and just run with it could just be a typo on the label.

 

 

Daniel

[furnessvale]

I can't help with the Morris oil, but when you have talked about finding API-CC 20w/50 oil in the past I have suggested Carlube Daytona from B&Q. Have you been unable to find it or do you consider it unsuitable?

 

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...amp;x=5&y=7

 

I ran the Petter PD2 on Alton for 13 years on 20/50 from the local car spares shop. Not the very cheapest. I lashed out and paid £5 to £6 a gallon! Never had problems despite intensive use. I don't know what Brian uses now in her but the engine is still going after 16 years and God knows how many more with Narrow Boat Trust before me.

 

George ex nb aAlton retired

[David Schweizer]

I have aways used Morris Supreme 30, which has now disapeared from their range. When I spoke to them recently, they advised me that it had been re-branded as Golden Film but was exactly the same oil, ie SAE 30 API/CC, I have not bought any yet as I buy it in bulk but I assume that the new name and dropping the API Rating coincides with the "horrible" new plastic containers. It will be interesting to see if the API/CC rating appears on the 25 litre drums.

 

Perhaps we should try and persuade Morris to re label the containers in the interest of consumer confidence. (and return to traditional re-usable Metal containers!)