Thames at Easter ?

[alan_fincher]

Still at the planning stage, but we are toying with a whiz around the Thames Ring at Easter. This is strictly limited to the 2-week school holiday as OH teaches. In fact I may also have to be elsewhere for a day of it, but that's another story, other than we probably need to base the trip on a maximum of 15 days.

 

We are looking for advice on the Thames section, which neither of us has ever done.

 

Lack of time, (and a VHF licence), rules out Limehouse, so can we skip all the stuff about "go for it, you'll find it a boating highlight", as, put simply, we can't (this time! )

 

So, firstly, do we go clockwise, (Brentford to Oxford) or anti-clockwise (Oxford to Brentford). Other commitments mean our preference might be to come downstream, so off at Brentford, and back up the GU, but what are the pros and cons of each direction. We are not the most powerful boat around, so would definitely be slower if pushing against a current. I have heard the left turn into Brentford from the Thames is easy to miss, but I suspect that's scaremongers ?

 

And what about mooring. Ideally we'll need to put in long days, but I have heard if you don't moor on some bits by mid afternoon, then it gets hard to find somewhere ?

 

So all advice and tips very welcome.

 

We do have anchor, and life-jackets, but, as I said, no VHF. (Fifty foot narrowboat - elderly BMC 1800 engine.)

 

Alan

[Proper Job]

Still at the planning stage, but we are toying with a whiz around the Thames Ring at Easter. This is strictly limited to the 2-week school holiday as OH teaches. In fact I may also have to be elsewhere for a day of it, but that's another story, other than we probably need to base the trip on a maximum of 15 days.

 

We are looking for advice on the Thames section, which neither of us has ever done.

 

Lack of time, (and a VHF licence), rules out Limehouse, so can we skip all the stuff about "go for it, you'll find it a boating highlight", as, put simply, we can't (this time! )

 

So, firstly, do we go clockwise, (Brentford to Oxford) or anti-clockwise (Oxford to Brentford). Other commitments mean our preference might be to come downstream, so off at Brentford, and back up the GU, but what are the pros and cons of each direction. We are not the most powerful boat around, so would definitely be slower if pushing against a current. I have heard the left turn into Brentford from the Thames is easy to miss, but I suspect that's scaremongers ?

 

And what about mooring. Ideally we'll need to put in long days, but I have heard if you don't moor on some bits by mid afternoon, then it gets hard to find somewhere ?

 

So all advice and tips very welcome.

 

We do have anchor, and life-jackets, but, as I said, no VHF. (Fifty foot narrowboat - elderly BMC 1800 engine.)

 

Alan

I've done it more than a few times. I have to say, my preference is to come up the Thames. That said, with the Easter floods, it will probably be better to run down with the stream. The left hand turn in to Brentford is an easy one (not quite so with Limehouse !).

 

14 days is and easy target, allthough you may have to do a few long days.

 

We did have a few problems mooring later on in the day, but that is only at the popular spots.

 

The downside to going anti-clockwise is the climb up out of London on the GU. Unless you can pair up with someone (shouldn't be to difficult to find an innocent hireboat at Easter), the locks can be hard work. Its a lot easier to come down (mt personal opinion). That said, as your limited to the Easter break, do you have sufficent child labour?

 

Its a good trip.

[Derek Porteous]

Still at the planning stage, but we are toying with a whiz around the Thames Ring at Easter. This is strictly limited to the 2-week school holiday as OH teaches. In fact I may also have to be elsewhere for a day of it, but that's another story, other than we probably need to base the trip on a maximum of 15 days.

 

We are looking for advice on the Thames section, which neither of us has ever done.

 

Lack of time, (and a VHF licence), rules out Limehouse, so can we skip all the stuff about "go for it, you'll find it a boating highlight", as, put simply, we can't (this time! )

 

So, firstly, do we go clockwise, (Brentford to Oxford) or anti-clockwise (Oxford to Brentford). Other commitments mean our preference might be to come downstream, so off at Brentford, and back up the GU, but what are the pros and cons of each direction. We are not the most powerful boat around, so would definitely be slower if pushing against a current. I have heard the left turn into Brentford from the Thames is easy to miss, but I suspect that's scaremongers ?

 

And what about mooring. Ideally we'll need to put in long days, but I have heard if you don't moor on some bits by mid afternoon, then it gets hard to find somewhere ?

 

So all advice and tips very welcome.

 

We do have anchor, and life-jackets, but, as I said, no VHF. (Fifty foot narrowboat - elderly BMC 1800 engine.)

 

Alan

 

We have done it anti-clockwise. I can't remember any obvious "no-go" areas as far as mooring is concerned, and we always found a space which was in high season, so this early on you should have your pick! (famous last words..).

 

The turn off to Brentford is obvious and easy, so you should have no problem there, just take the lockkeepers' advice on the timing of the tidal passage.

 

Have a great trip, Alan. We certainly enjoyed this part of our round trip from Ripon a couple of years ago.

 

Derek

[alan_fincher]

Thanks Steve,

 

Very helpful.

 

For people with no River knowledge though, can you please expand on "Easter floods" ? How much of a problem is excess water around Easter, please ?

 

We are not too easily scared of the approaching 60 or so locks to climb from Brentford to Tring summit, though I'll admit on those locks downhill always does seem a bit easier. Not too many hire boats make it down this way, BTW. The only hire base left is at Leighton Buzzard, and they seem to largely do short hirings, rather than weeks or fortnights these days.

 

I must admit I'm more concerned about congestion at popular spots, (I haven't been on the Southern Oxford since the 1970s), than I am worried about nobody to share with on the less used bits.

 

I also need to look at licensing options - I suspect I'm in for a shock!

 

Alan

[Bones]

Thanks Steve,

 

Very helpful.

 

For people with no River knowledge though, can you please expand on "Easter floods" ? How much of a problem is excess water around Easter, please ?

 

We are not too easily scared of the approaching 60 or so locks to climb from Brentford to Tring summit, though I'll admit on those locks downhill always does seem a bit easier. Not too many hire boats make it down this way, BTW. The only hire base left is at Leighton Buzzard, and they seem to largely do short hirings, rather than weeks or fortnights these days.

 

I must admit I'm more concerned about congestion at popular spots, (I haven't been on the Southern Oxford since the 1970s), than I am worried about nobody to share with on the less used bits.

 

I also need to look at licensing options - I suspect I'm in for a shock!

 

Alan

 

Well, if there is a lot of rain, the river goes up, and then it becomes un navigable - like it is now....

[Proper Job]

Thanks Steve,

 

Very helpful.

 

For people with no River knowledge though, can you please expand on "Easter floods" ? How much of a problem is excess water around Easter, please ?

 

We are not too easily scared of the approaching 60 or so locks to climb from Brentford to Tring summit, though I'll admit on those locks downhill always does seem a bit easier. Not too many hire boats make it down this way, BTW. The only hire base left is at Leighton Buzzard, and they seem to largely do short hirings, rather than weeks or fortnights these days.

 

I must admit I'm more concerned about congestion at popular spots, (I haven't been on the Southern Oxford since the 1970s), than I am worried about nobody to share with on the less used bits.

 

I also need to look at licensing options - I suspect I'm in for a shock!

 

Alan

Alan

 

My 'Easter Floods' bit is more of a flippant comment. Sod's law says that if the weathers going to be bad, it'll be at Easter etc. The Thames isn't the big dangerous river that many people make it out to be. It's fairly predictable and well managed as far as rivers go. If there has been a lot of rain prior to your river leg of the journey, contact your local lock keeper. Contrary to some people's opinion, they do know what they are talking about, and will advise you accordingly.

 

The Southern Oxford shouldn't give you any problems as far as mooring is concerned. I found the lower end of the GU a problem, with most of the 24/24 hour etc moorings taken up by fairly permanent looking craft. That was back in 2006 when I was last down there and things may have changed.

 

edited to say: don't forget the river sections of the Southern Oxford. The river Cherwell crosses it at Aynho and there's river section from Bakers to Shipton. Only an issue if there's been a lot of rain or, as per currently, meltwater

Edited February 16, 2009 by Proper Job

[grahoom]

could be useful for you

 

http://riverconditions.visitthames.co.uk/

 

good to monitor the stream conditions on the Thames.

[Dominic M]

I've done it both ways on a number of occasions over the years. Both are a great trip. It is quicker (obviously) going downstream on the Thames - as for Easter floods, well who knows? I think for the last two years March and April have been no problem - it was the summer months that were a wash out.

 

As others have said, Teddington to Brentford is no problem. I never missed the turning to find myself in Den Haag by accident. Which is a pity, because there are some great fish restaurants there. In fact I think that the Thames between Teddington and Brentford is fascinating - although it is now very much a part of London, you can still clearly see the core that was the riverside villages of Twickenham, Richmond, Kew and Chiswick from when they were out in the countryside. And in between the grounds of several grand houses - Marble Hall and Orleans House at Twickenham, the green slopes of Richmond Hill with the Star and Garter at the top, and Syon House.

 

Enjoy!

Edited February 16, 2009 by Dominic M

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Have done it both ways several times, it's definately easier on the boat, engine and gearbox going down stream on the Thames, especially if the gearbox is old. We did it in two weeks, I can give a breakdown of hours etc if you want. Mooring was generally OK, and only had to pay once in 30 years.

 

Thames and floods - it's generally very well managed, but take local advice I found the EA phone line on flood conditions totally useless when we went upstream in 2007.

 

Lots of locks electrified but others can be hand operated out of hours. Some electric ones tend to not work due to an electrical fault at times, which can negate early starts.

 

Section from Teddington to Brentford good, but you have to catch the tide. Turn into Brentford easy. We went onto Limehouse once (in 1996) - exciting in a 30ft boat.

 

Leo.

[Hazza]

As said downstream is the way to go. It's quicker otherwise no other advantage. I suggest you go out of the Oxford through Dukes Cut as the canal to Isis Lock is pretty uninspiring and the HQ of the "Slow Down" brigade. Actually beware of them along the southern section of the canal - clearly nothing better to do.

 

If the Thames is a bit high be careful through bridges and on corners. You will find that you are being swept down faster than you think. Downstream of the lock at Sonning is a good example.

 

Moorings along the Thames are good and shouldn't be a problem at Easter. You will have to pay for most town moorings and some farmer's fields.

[blackrose]

My advice is to keep an eye on the weather forecasts. Some friends of mine neglected to do this and went out to Hampton Ct last week before all that snow melted and the floods started. They've been trapped there for the last week fending off the bank with scaffolding poles, unable to get off their boat and told not to attempt to move by the EA. People have been bringing them food and passing it over to them in landing nets!

[mrsmelly]

Still at the planning stage, but we are toying with a whiz around the Thames Ring at Easter. This is strictly limited to the 2-week school holiday as OH teaches. In fact I may also have to be elsewhere for a day of it, but that's another story, other than we probably need to base the trip on a maximum of 15 days.

 

We are looking for advice on the Thames section, which neither of us has ever done.

 

Lack of time, (and a VHF licence), rules out Limehouse, so can we skip all the stuff about "go for it, you'll find it a boating highlight", as, put simply, we can't (this time! )

 

So, firstly, do we go clockwise, (Brentford to Oxford) or anti-clockwise (Oxford to Brentford). Other commitments mean our preference might be to come downstream, so off at Brentford, and back up the GU, but what are the pros and cons of each direction. We are not the most powerful boat around, so would definitely be slower if pushing against a current. I have heard the left turn into Brentford from the Thames is easy to miss, but I suspect that's scaremongers ?

 

And what about mooring. Ideally we'll need to put in long days, but I have heard if you don't moor on some bits by mid afternoon, then it gets hard to find somewhere ?

 

So all advice and tips very welcome.

 

We do have anchor, and life-jackets, but, as I said, no VHF. (Fifty foot narrowboat - elderly BMC 1800 engine.)

 

Alan

 

Hi

 

I work with a hire fleet on the Thames if ur bmc is in reasonable order it will have no problem going either way u wish. The Thames is one of the easier rivers on our system and fairly well managed but does go up and down like a yo yo and can flood remarkably quickly at ANY time of the year. You will enjoy it. The best advice I can give is to ring the guys on the locks directly on each stretch u intend to use they know more than any office walla and will give u good advice, their tel numbers are easily obtained I suggest u keep them in ur phones contact list for easy access whilst on the river.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[steelaway]

Hi

 

I work with a hire fleet on the Thames if ur bmc is in reasonable order it will have no problem going either way u wish. The Thames is one of the easier rivers on our system and fairly well managed but does go up and down like a yo yo and can flood remarkably quickly at ANY time of the year. You will enjoy it. The best advice I can give is to ring the guys on the locks directly on each stretch u intend to use they know more than any office walla and will give u good advice, their tel numbers are easily obtained I suggest u keep them in ur phones contact list for easy access whilst on the river.

 

Regards

 

Tim

 

 

Maybe it was just me but I found the lock after Teddington confusing.

It wasn't obvious that you dont use this lock and you can go through one of the gated bridges

Was it just me?

 

Alex

[Neil TNC]

Maybe it was just me but I found the lock after Teddington confusing.

It wasn't obvious that you dont use this lock and you can go through one of the gated bridges

Was it just me?

 

Alex

 

Richmond sluices, with the lock beside are a half tide weir, so weir gates are in position bewtween the arches from half ebb to the first half of flood tide. The lockies at Teddington will know the tides and will not let you out at such a time that the weir will be up. They will also probably have more idea of when Thames Lock at Brentford is open than BW! The lights on the arches to be used for navigation are not that obvious, as the orange lamp for OK, is...well on the red side of orange!

[alan_fincher]

Many thanks to all those who have responded, and the (almost!) always helpful advice.

 

Well, if there is a lot of rain, the river goes up, and then it becomes un navigable - like it is now....

 

And that from the person who has objected to patronising posts! It seems those with doctorates may have lost sight of what those without are capable of grasping!

 

Only joking, but for the avoidance of doubt, I was not aware that Easter is a particularly bad time for high water levels, but do know rivers rise and fall.....

 

 

The Southern Oxford shouldn't give you any problems as far as mooring is concerned. I found the lower end of the GU a problem, with most of the 24/24 hour etc moorings taken up by fairly permanent looking craft. That was back in 2006 when I was last down there and things may have changed.

 

I can't say we have ever had issues on the GU, even if venturing in to London, (although Brentford might have been a bit more interesting, had we not had the offer to breast up with Blackrose.

 

But we do tend to just go bankside where it suits us, which is seldom on recognised visitor moorings. My only irritation going South of Berkhamsted, is that piling hooks are seldom an option, and we usually have to drive stakes in.

 

could be useful for you

 

http://riverconditions.visitthames.co.uk/

 

good to monitor the stream conditions on the Thames.

 

Thanks for that.

 

I never missed the turning to find myself in Den Haag by accident. Which is a pity, because there are some great fish restaurants there.

 

We are vegetarian, so I'll not be too upset to pass up the fish restaurant. But I do like the Netherlands, although knowing the size of those ferries from Harwich to "The Hook", perhaps we'll try not to miss Brentford.

 

My brother told me he had problems back in the 1970s, when he had to take a pair round via the Thames, because either Blisworth or Braunston, (can't remember which), was long term "unwell". However I believe his total documentation for that bit of the trip was a London "A to Z", which maybe is why he wasn't too clever at spotting his turn.

 

 

Hi,

 

Have done it both ways several times, it's definately easier on the boat, engine and gearbox going down stream on the Thames, especially if the gearbox is old. We did it in two weeks, I can give a breakdown of hours etc if you want. Mooring was generally OK, and only had to pay once in 30 years.

Thanks for PM - will reply!

 

 

As said downstream is the way to go. It's quicker otherwise no other advantage. I suggest you go out of the Oxford through Dukes Cut as the canal to Isis Lock is pretty uninspiring and the HQ of the "Slow Down" brigade. Actually beware of them along the southern section of the canal - clearly nothing better to do.

Ah! We walked the last couple of miles back at the time of the Banter, and there didn't seem to be that many boats moored online. Perhaps there are more further up ? We agree Oxford doesn't make much of the canal named after it.

 

 

My advice is to keep an eye on the weather forecasts. Some friends of mine neglected to do this and went out to Hampton Ct last week before all that snow melted and the floods started. They've been trapped there for the last week fending off the bank with scaffolding poles, unable to get off their boat and told not to attempt to move by the EA. People have been bringing them food and passing it over to them in landing nets!

 

Yes, a worry with coming downstream if we do the loop, is that travelling anti-clockwise, by the time we are in Oxford, we haven't nearly enough time to go back the long way. If we come down to Brentford, we will know much sooner that we can make it up the Thames, leaving the long non-river return home until afterwards.

 

I know it's "how long is a piece of string ?", but how fast is a typical flow. To my way of thinking, if it's (say) 2mph, and your boat normally makes 4mph, then you would only get 2mph upstream, but 6mph down. That's a big difference, but if it were a 5mph flow.... :lol: (Could be Den Haag, after all!).

[starman]

We did it clockwise in our little 44 footer last summer and though it was a bit of a plod to Teddington on a day when strong winds counter-acted the tide we had no real problems. As I recall it took us eight days from Brentford Dock to Oxford.

 

As a big-river novice I felt comfortable going up-river, not having to worry about being carried past moorings on the flow etc. And there was quite a flow on it after a lot of recent rain even in summer with 'stream increasing' warning boards on some locks. We rarely struggled to find mooring spots on the river, though you inevitably have to pay. Barely touch the bank at Henley and someone will be aboard to lift £6 off you while in Cliveden Reach the National Trust man even rows out to the little islands to get his money! On the other hand, before Doctor Bones interjects, Abingdon is free.

 

Contrary to other opinions, we found the Oxford could be tricky to moor in places - there are a lot of overgrown banks so people tend to congregate on the publicised mooring spots which therefore fill up. On the other hand if you don't mind a bit of weed bashing... Coming down the GU was great; there were always people to pair up with through locks. The further we went south of Watford, the fewer the desirable mooring spots and decent pubs (others may disagree of course.)

[Tim Lewis]

Many thanks to all those who have responded, and the (almost!) always helpful advice.

 

<Snip>

 

Only joking, but for the avoidance of doubt, I was not aware that Easter is a particularly bad time for high water levels, but do know rivers rise and fall.....

 

<Snip>

 

Easter 1998

 

Tim

[WJM]

"The lockies at Teddington will know the tides and will not let you out at such a time that the weir will be up."

 

and

 

"....unable to get off their boat and told not to attempt to move by the EA."

 

 

Just to clarify a little detail - nobody, EA, lock-keepers etc., can specifically tell you what to do or prevent you navigating. They offer advice but ultimately the decision is yours. I have done Brentford to Teddington at the highest point in last week's floods and have also been up and down the Teddington to Molesey/Hampton Court reach several times in the last week. We are on 'Red Boards' so I wouldn't recommend it for everyone but if you have a good knowledge of what you are doing then you can do whatever you want.

[alan_fincher]

"The lockies at Teddington will know the tides and will not let you out at such a time that the weir will be up."

 

and

 

"....unable to get off their boat and told not to attempt to move by the EA."

 

 

Just to clarify a little detail - nobody, EA, lock-keepers etc., can specifically tell you what to do or prevent you navigating. They offer advice but ultimately the decision is yours. I have done Brentford to Teddington at the highest point in last week's floods and have also been up and down the Teddington to Molesey/Hampton Court reach several times in the last week. We are on 'Red Boards' so I wouldn't recommend it for everyone but if you have a good knowledge of what you are doing then you can do whatever you want.

I don't doubt for a moment that what you say may be technically correct.

 

However we have very little experience of rivers, and none of rivers running fast.

 

So I personally would not dream of doing anything different from any advice received from the professionals, unless there were some totally compelling reason for having to ignore them. At the moment I can't conceive of any such reason.

 

I see this debate as being like many on the forum. There is for example, no current reason why I should not do my own LPG fitting. I feel completely confident to do so, despite not being a CORGI fitter. However, whilst I can tell others that it's OK to do so if they are "competent", no way would I suggest to someone who doesn't feel confident, that they should do so.

 

Alan

 

EDITED: Slightly, because when I reread the original post, I saw a different way of reading it.

Edited February 17, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Neil TNC]

I don't doubt for a moment that what you say may be technically correct.

 

However we have very little experience of rivers, and none of rivers running fast.

 

So I personally would not dream of doing anything different from any advice received from the professionals, unless there were some totally compelling reason for having to ignore them. At the moment I can't conceive of any such reason.

 

I see this debate as being like many on the forum. There is for example, no current reason why I should not do my own LPG fitting. I feel completely confident to do so, despite not being a CORGI fitter. However, whilst I can tell others that it's OK to do so if they are "competent", no way would I suggest to someone who doesn't feel confident, that they should do so.

 

Alan

 

EDITED: Slightly, because when I reread the original post, I saw a different way of reading it.

 

We too have navigated the Thames with Red Boards up. Often this is the only way of getting to Basy and it not having a water shortage. If a Red Boarded lock is capable of being operated, the lockies will let you through, but give you a "Red Card". I wonder what your insurance company would say if you had a mishap, when you knowingly navigated in these condidtions?

 

If people like this kinda white-water narrowboating, they should go to Ireland, where there are no such things as red boards

[WJM]

"So I personally would not dream of doing anything different from any advice received from the professionals,"

 

Ok - so you are at Teddington, stuck there for two days, your complete holiday ring is rapidly evaporating. The lockies have told you no. Then I pull up and they start preparing the lock for me. You discuss the situation with me. I take a look at your boat. I say "Come with me, you will be fine" The lockie holds out the red card for you but reluctantly agrees that I am a regular on this run in all conditions. What do you do?

Edited February 17, 2009 by WJM

[alan_fincher]

Ok - so you are at Teddington, stuck there for two days, your complete holiday ring is rapidly evaporating. The lockies have told you no. Then I pull up and they start preparing the lock for me. You discuss the situation with me. I take a look at your boat. I say "Come with me, you will be fine" The lockie holds out the red card for you but reluctantly agrees that I am a regular on this run in all conditions. What do you do?

From what I've seen, I'd never be able to keep up with you!

[Tony Brooks]

"So I personally would not dream of doing anything different from any advice received from the professionals,"

 

Ok - so you are at Teddington, stuck there for two days, your complete holiday ring is rapidly evaporating. The lockies have told you no. Then I pull up and they start preparing the lock for me. You discuss the situation with me. I take a look at your boat. I say "Come with me, you will be fine" The lockie holds out the red card for you but reluctantly agrees that I am a regular on this run in all conditions. What do you do?

 

 

I'm with you on this WJM. Last September, just as the high flows were starting I took JennyB with my wife, from Reading to Teddington. She was very concerned, especially when the Marlow lock keeper gave me a red card, but had to admit that she did not feel in danger.

 

When I was on the hire fleet the red boards went out as they drew their last paddle on the weir, now they seem to have several large bucks still closed or partially open and the red boards come out. We even had the situation at Romney where his headwater was 6 inches down and dropping yet red boards were still out.

 

I notice the rowers and their motorise coaching craft do not observe red boards!

 

Yes you do have to know a bit about the river and it is vital to look ahead to assess the way the current is flowing and act accordingly. You never attempt to turn round above a bridge or islands and always try to use the slack water at the tail of an island to help you turn. It is prudent to make sure you know which side the weirs are on and how far away from them the lock is. This allows you to hug the opposite bank if you know you have to slow down as you pass the weir.

 

We spent the whole of last summer on or around the Thames and despite three instances of strong flow with yellow boards out never had a problem going up or down stream. Whilst moored in slack water below Sonning bridge it was fun watching the boats on the opposite back getting buffeted by the weir stream and even better the larger tupperware jobbies ignoring the weir stream and the frantically corkscrewing their boat through the bridge. I consider myself a not very good boat handler but we needed the slightest wag on the tiller to get through the bridge, however a few moment before it looked as if we were aiming for a grass bank before going sideways into line for the bridge.

 

Keep observant, use the current to your advantage, remember the current is less closer to the bank except on the outside of bends and even if the boards do go out over easter you should be fine. If there is some flow on remember to always approach your mooring upstream, that way you can remain stationary on the current and "ferry glide" into the mooring.

 

Have a good trip and if you want to know where the free mooring places are I am sure the forum will oblige.