No knowledge and buying a project boat!

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Beware of taking advice, well meaning but listen to it and then make up your mind, as an example I asked a few experienced builders and fitters opinions on ballasting but they all disagreed with each other, I decided to do the maths myself, the result seemed a bit odd and everyone said it was wrong, I trusted my maths and went ahead. On the day of the launch a local boat builder stated a rule of thumb with ballasting and much to my relief it agreed with my findings, hour later Innisfree was floating with a nearly prefect trim. 

Unlike mine which had a nice list to port and to deep on the bum.

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

This boat?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315200806314

Ad suggests hull is OK (but then it would, wouldn't it). Could be OK but a lot of work.

Not just joinery and an engine refit either - there's plumbing, electrics, heating, gas etc. to do as well.

If you've never been on a narrow boat do you really want to take all this on?

 

And the previous engine was probably a Sabb (not a Saab) and to my mind a nicer engine, but presumably now history.

 

 

If it is the hull is far for perfect and you can see pitting in the photo on just this little bit alone

 

[Peugeot 106]

I’m sure your partner will manage it and enjoy it if he has a suitable backbone. The most important thing I found was to have the boat close to home while I was working on it. It took a LOT longer than I estimated but I got there in the end. 

[nb Innisfree]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

And money.

 

The cost will exceed just buying a complete and working second hand similar boat, I'd predict.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe but in our case we finished up with a boat with loads of extras that would have cost much more new and I couldn't possibly find a boat with all the fitout I wanted. 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Maybe but in our case we finished up with a boat with loads of extras that would have cost much more new and I couldn't possibly find a boat with all the fitout I wanted. 

 

Yes, but yours was new and by the way you write it already had the engine and at least rudimentary electrics installed. It was not an old hull with an engien that needed fitting and wiring.

[Arthur Marshall]

If it is that boat, which is 38 foot with a cruiser stern, it's fine as a holiday boat but much too small for two people to live on. Mine is forty foot, but with only a 23 foot cabin, which is just about ok for one to live on, but impossible for two - we struggle with space even on the rare occasions both of us get away. There is no room for storage space in a boat that small.

[nb Innisfree]

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, but yours was new and by the way you write it already had the engine and at least rudimentary electrics installed. It was not an old hull with an engien that needed fitting and wiring.

Bare shell, nothing fitted, I sourced everything and finished up with a bespoke boat.

In some ways it was easier, trying to persuade builders to do things in an unorthodox way would never have worked, there was enough hassle with folk telling me I was doing it all wrong and said it wouldn't work, shaking of heads, for instance some didn't understand why I was going to the trouble of designing the floor and lining to be individually removable in each room, they were genuinely puzzled, it just wasn't done that way. They were wrong so I just ignored them. 

Looking at the lack of imagination and basic incompetence I can see why folk have probs with their builders. If you want a job doing properly diy is my motto though health probs prevents me doing it now. 

[LadyG]

41 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Bare shell, nothing fitted, I sourced everything and finished up with a bespoke boat.

In some ways it was easier, trying to persuade builders to do things in an unorthodox way would never have worked, there was enough hassle with folk telling me I was doing it all wrong and said it wouldn't work, shaking of heads, for instance some didn't understand why I was going to the trouble of designing the floor and lining to be individually removable in each room, they were genuinely puzzled, it just wasn't done that way. They were wrong so I just ignored them. 

Looking at the lack of imagination and basic incompetence I can see why folk have probs with their builders. If you want a job doing properly diy is my motto though health probs prevents me doing it now. 

I can't imagine why anyone would have individual floors in each room. If, for example I wanted to build the galley floor, with the dining floor adjacent, where would the join be that would allow you to lift the galley floor, and the dining floor. Would it be under the partition wall?

Do you remove all the cabinets first. Surely you don't expect to ever lift the floor, a few inspection hatches may be needed, but if the floors need to be removed, something has gone wrong. 

The use of laminate flooring, carpet, vinyl,  engineered wood etc are the wearing surfaces, surely they sit on top of the flooring boards in most cases.

I think there are some things on these boats which are tried and tested, once you've lined the walls with ply, you won't want to take it down every few years.

Edited March 8 by LadyG

[nb Innisfree]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can't imagine why anyone would have individual floors in each room. If, for example I wanted to build the galley floor, with the dining floor adjacent, where would the join be that would allow you to lift the galley floor, and the dining floor. Would it be under the partition wall?

Do you remove all the cabinets first. Surely you don't expect to ever lift the floor, a few inspection hatches may be needed, but if the floors need to be removed, something has gone wrong. 

The use of laminate flooring, carpet, vinyl,  engineered wood etc are the wearing surfaces, surely they sit on top of the flooring boards in most cases.

I think there are some things on these boats which are tried and tested, once you've lined the walls with ply, you won't want to take it down every few years.

That's my point, no imagination! 🤣

 

You are thinking of conventional boats built  to sell at a profit. 

Everything removable, takes thinking outside of the conventional box, it's not rocket science.

Partition wall sits on bearers, floor buts up to it, screwed to a strip of ply between bearers, only downside is only one room can be lifted at once, handy for adjusting ballast for ongoing  improvements, similar with wall lining. 

[blackrose]

I met a couple on a boat where every single built in cupboard, wall panel and floor panel could be easily dismantled and removed if required. They were obviously made small and manageable. It was a work of art. 

 

Ideally all boats would be made this way. You wouldn't need inspection hatches if you could easily remove any section of floor that you wanted to. 

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I met a couple on a boat where every single built in cupboard, wall panel and floor panel could be easily dismantled and removed if required. They were obviously made small and manageable. It was a work of art. 

 

Ideally all boats would be made this way. You wouldn't need inspection hatches if you could easily remove any section of floor that you wanted to. 

My saloon is 10ft along one side, twelve feet on the other and maybe 6 ft 6 inches wide, if I ever needed to lift it I'd be in big trouble. 

[nb Innisfree]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I met a couple on a boat where every single built in cupboard, wall panel and floor panel could be easily dismantled and removed if required. They were obviously made small and manageable. It was a work of art. 

 

Ideally all boats would be made this way. You wouldn't need inspection hatches if you could easily remove any section of floor that you wanted to. 

It could be done economically on a large scale with proper design. But why bother if boats are selling. 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

My saloon is 10ft along one side, twelve feet on the other and maybe 6 ft 6 inches wide, if I ever needed to lift it I'd be in big trouble. 

Who said it had to be in one piece? 

Edited March 8 by nb Innisfree

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can't imagine why anyone would have individual floors in each room. If, for example I wanted to build the galley floor, with the dining floor adjacent, where would the join be that would allow you to lift the galley floor, and the dining floor. Would it be under the partition wall?

Do you remove all the cabinets first. Surely you don't expect to ever lift the floor, a few inspection hatches may be needed, but if the floors need to be removed, something has gone wrong. 

The use of laminate flooring, carpet, vinyl,  engineered wood etc are the wearing surfaces, surely they sit on top of the flooring boards in most cases.

I think there are some things on these boats which are tried and tested, once you've lined the walls with ply, you won't want to take it down every few years.

 

Traditionally on cruisers and as I understand yachts all the floor sections could be lifted with the partitions supporting the edges of the floor. Only narrowboats seem to put all the floors down and the build the portions on top. Cruisers and I suspect yachts only stopped doing it the traditional way when they started moulding the hull inner mouldings.

[nb Innisfree]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Traditionally on cruisers and as I understand yachts all the floor sections could be lifted with the partitions supporting the edges of the floor. Only narrowboats seem to put all the floors down and the build the portions on top. Cruisers and I suspect yachts only stopped doing it the traditional way when they started moulding the hull inner mouldings.

It's done because it's quick and easy. 

Too much vertical thinking. 

[blackrose]

44 minutes ago, LadyG said:

My saloon is 10ft along one side, twelve feet on the other and maybe 6 ft 6 inches wide, if I ever needed to lift it I'd be in big trouble. 

 

Not if the floor panels were in small sections as I described above.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

That's my point, no imagination! 🤣

 

You are thinking of conventional boats built  to sell at a profit. 

Everything removable, takes thinking outside of the conventional box, it's not rocket science.

Partition wall sits on bearers, floor buts up to it, screwed to a strip of ply between bearers, only downside is only one room can be lifted at once, handy for adjusting ballast for ongoing  improvements, similar with wall lining. 

So your partition walls are determined by the location of the bearers, so if they are six feet apart your bathroom is either six foot wide or twelve foot wide. 

I give up.

[Machpoint005]

Six feet apart or at six-foot centres? The difference might matter!

 

 

[nb Innisfree]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So your partition walls are determined by the location of the bearers, so if they are six feet apart your bathroom is either six foot wide or twelve foot wide. 

I give up.

For the best I think, you could damage your brain. 

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So your partition walls are determined by the location of the bearers, so if they are six feet apart your bathroom is either six foot wide or twelve foot wide. 

I give up.

 

Bearers as you call them can be fitted wherever you want them during the build, including fore-aft ones. The only reason I can think of as to why this is not done on narrowboats is for reasons of cost and the way it is always done.

 

I am really surprised that during your yachting days you never took the floor boards up for a spot of bilge cleaning.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Traditionally on cruisers and as I understand yachts all the floor sections could be lifted with the partitions supporting the edges of the floor. Only narrowboats seem to put all the floors down and the build the portions on top. Cruisers and I suspect yachts only stopped doing it the traditional way when they started moulding the hull inner mouldings.

 

 

Our floor lifts up in sections,

 

Lift up carpet, lift up floor panels (which sit on bearers in 'joist hangers') 

Remove bearers and totally free access to the engine room.

 

 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

So your partition walls are determined by the location of the bearers, so if they are six feet apart your bathroom is either six foot wide or twelve foot wide. 

I give up.

 

WHAT? 🤣🤣🤣

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

WHAT? 🤣🤣🤣

 

Haven't you ever seen a 12 foot wide bathroom on a narrow boat before?  It's like those big Winnebago RVs where the sides poke out to give more space inside!

[LadyG]

No one has mentioned a grp cruiser, not as suitable as a steel boat for a year round liveaboard,  but much cheaper, and possibly simpler, it would give them an idea of whether they would be suited to the lifestyle.

[truckcab79]

Crack on. Get it surveyed, and if it passes get it bought and start working on your dream.  Life’s short and if it’s what you want then do it.  Don’t be put off by all the reasons others think you shouldn’t. Let them live a risk-free life if they wish. Each to their own and all that.  
 

Be realistic about budget.  It’ll be way more than you think but that might just mean it’ll take longer. If your partner has the skills of a joiner he’s practical enough to do the rest too.  Nobody is born knowing this stuff so get stuck in and start learning.   

[rusty69]

And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you. 

[LadyG]

No one has mentioned a grp cruiser, not as suitable as a steel boat for a year round liveaboard,  but much cheaper, and possibly simpler, it would give them an idea of whether they would be suited to the lifestyle.

I would urge the OP not to buy this boat, because :

1) It is too small to live on.

2) it is a money pit

Yes, after two years they will have picked up some usefull skills and knowledge, but the boat will still be too small and they will be two years older.

 

 

Edited March 9 by LadyG