Multi fuel stove recommendations

[frangar]

Boat related but not for a boat…

 

The Morso Squirrel in our “new” cottage is sadly life expired…..the back plate is warped and the rest of castings are thin…joints are opened etc.. so it needs replacing…I think it’s about 30 years old so it’s not done badly. Interestingly we have a sweeps cert from last year  giving it a clean bill of health…so we need to replace it. 
 

I’d happily replace like for like but sadly you can only seem to get an updated “eco” squirrel now which seems to have one door doing the firebox & the ashpan which seems a backward step and must mean more dust etc. I could rebuild the one we have but then I think I’d have fun trying to find someone to fit it as it seems getting a non approved stove signed off in a house is nigh on impossible. I’m probably going to need a new flue liner and register plate etc. 

 

So there seems to be a massive choice of 5kw stoves from cheap Chinese machine mart specials to designer stoves with curved doors whose glass alone costs around £600 to replace. I need one no bigger than a squirrel 1410 due to the size of the fireplace. 
 

Anyone have one of the new squirrels? Or something else similar. I’m not keen on the “boatman” having heard they aren’t as controllable. I want to burn wood but have the option for solid fuel as well. I do prefer cast iron but that might be because im old fashioned and to me steel/welded I think of as “cheap”….which looking at some prices it isn’t now! 

[Kendorr]

Check out the Salamander Hobbit

 

https://salamanderstoves.com/product/the-hobbit-stove/

[PaulJ]

I was on a nb with a Firefox recently and was quite impressed with it. Does only have a single door though which for me having a Wenlock isnt a problem.

Would replace my own with this one if it had a backboiler.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

I’m not keen on the “boatman” having heard they aren’t as controllable.

Most modern approved stoves won't be as controllable as an older squirrel. You are going to need current approvals for a house, I'm guessing. They all have much larger minimum vent openings, to reduce CO formation and improve efficiency, but this makes them harder to stop right down overnight. I've been impressed with the Boatman's neighbours have had, but even Boatman have made changes to meet modern requirements, so how they are now I don't know.

[GUMPY]

We had this on the barge

https://www.charnwood.com/all-stoves/room-heating-stoves/country/country-4/

 

And a Country 6 in the house.

 

Probably the best stoves we have ever had.

[Tonka]

We have a Ekol Clarity 5. Easy to light and keep alight. Glass stays clean. Not cast iron though.

[frangar]

32 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most modern approved stoves won't be as controllable as an older squirrel. You are going to need current approvals for a house, I'm guessing. They all have much larger minimum vent openings, to reduce CO formation and improve efficiency, but this makes them harder to stop right down overnight. I've been impressed with the Boatman's neighbours have had, but even Boatman have made changes to meet modern requirements, so how they are now I don't know.

Yes it seems you need to get a stove signed off by an approved body or indeed building control from the council and only the latest eco type stoves are acceptable although like a boat I’m sure there are blurred lines if it’s a replacement. 
 

I’ve heard the new type stoves don’t like to slumber as well which is annoying….guessing made worse in a house by having a tall flue. 

I was hoping to keep the squirrel as I’ve got one on the boat so not only very happy with how they work but could also share spares & parts but seems it’s not to be. 
 

 

I shall have a look at all the recommendations and take it from there. Thanks to all for your input. 

[Peugeot 106]

Plenty of “old model” Squirrels on Ebay including refurbished 1410 at £850. I think there is a company refurbishing these - maybe an idea for your old one or part exchange. Worth doing some research if you fancy another Squirrel

[Tonka]

46 minutes ago, frangar said:

Yes it seems you need to get a stove signed off by an approved body or indeed building control from the council and only the latest eco type stoves are acceptable although like a boat I’m sure there are blurred lines if it’s a replacement. 
 

I’ve heard the new type stoves don’t like to slumber as well which is annoying….guessing made worse in a house by having a tall flue. 

I was hoping to keep the squirrel as I’ve got one on the boat so not only very happy with how they work but could also share spares & parts but seems it’s not to be. 
 

 

I shall have a look at all the recommendations and take it from there. Thanks to all for your input. 

If it Defra approved then they are not designed to slumber. If you look on YouTube there is a guy who does reviews on stoves. Can't remember his name off hand but he has been the stove industry for years. He tells you how to remove the defra bit so as to reduce the airflow and then you can slumber

 

The Tortoise is his YouTube name

Edited March 6 by Tonka
Link added

[Mike Tee]

Another vote for the Salamander Hobbit - ours came with the boat - had been used and abused for years, but after a really good clean has been fine, other than the riddle device which has seized solid.

[frangar]

32 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Plenty of “old model” Squirrels on Ebay including refurbished 1410 at £850. I think there is a company refurbishing these - maybe an idea for your old one or part exchange. Worth doing some research if you fancy another Squirrel

The trouble is that finding a HETAS etc approved fitter who is happy to fit a stove they havent supplied or isnt DEFRA approved is nigh on impossible  and without the whole install being signed off as such can lead to a heap of pain with local council building control/house insurance should there be any issues it seems. Im just grateful that the same rules dont seem to apply to boats at the moment.

 

Its Shipshape stoves that do the refurb units and you can indeed get all the parts still to make a new one...but realistically I think its only the doors and the legs that I could use from the existing one.

28 minutes ago, Tonka said:

If it Defra approved then they are not designed to slumber. If you look on YouTube there is a guy who does reviews on stoves. Can't remember his name off hand but he has been the stove industry for years. He tells you how to remove the defra bit so as to reduce the airflow and then you can slumber

 

The Tortoise is his YouTube name

Cheers....Ill check him out

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

If it Defra approved then they are not designed to slumber. If you look on YouTube there is a guy who does reviews on stoves. Can't remember his name off hand but he has been the stove industry for years. He tells you how to remove the defra bit so as to reduce the airflow and then you can slumber

 

The Tortoise is his YouTube name

 

That's useful, thanks.

 

I had a Stovax Stockton 8 installed in my hovel with a new insulated flue up the old chimney (about 10m high) and that resolutely refuses to slumber. When I first got it I banked it up with Oxbow Red the first night and closed down all the vents fully, expecting to be able to leave it to tick over for a day or so with no further attention like the Squirrel in my boat used to. But no, at 3.00am it was going like a furnace and by the morning had actually burned it all and gone out! Very disappointing.

 

Some close investigation revealed the bottom air vent is designed not to fully close, hence the speed at which it burned all its fuel. Some careful sealing up with heat resistant silicone has improved it but it's still not great. I'd advise against buying a Stovax. 

 

[Peugeot 106]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

The trouble is that finding a HETAS etc approved fitter who is happy to fit a stove they havent supplied or isnt DEFRA approved is nigh on impossible  and without the whole install being signed off as such can lead to a heap of pain with local council building control/house insurance should there be any issues it seems. Im just grateful that the same rules dont seem to apply to boats at the moment.

 

Its Shipshape stoves that do the refurb units and you can indeed get all the parts still to make a new one...but realistically I think its only the doors and the legs that I could use from the existing one.

Cheers....Ill check him out

But if you keep your existing door and legs you can claim you’ve repaired your existing one! Is it not a bit like changing an engine. If you keep to the same model it’s a simple swap?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

But if you keep your existing door and legs you can claim you’ve repaired your existing one! Is it not a bit like changing an engine. If you keep to the same model it’s a simple swap?

 

 

Triggers broom !

[Peugeot 106]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Triggers broom !

Just what I was thinking of but couldn’t remember who’s broom! Plenty of 19th century yachts about with hardly any original parts at all.

[frangar]

44 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

But if you keep your existing door and legs you can claim you’ve repaired your existing one! Is it not a bit like changing an engine. If you keep to the same model it’s a simple swap?

In an ideal world yes but it seems it’s impossible to get Hetas registered person to sign off something where they haven’t supplied all the parts as well…which strikes me as wrong but there you go. I am tempted just to get someone to fit a new flue and

register plate and say it was like that when we moved in but apparently that might be frowned upon too. Seems like another “jobs for the boys”

scheme really. 

[MtB]

43 minutes ago, frangar said:

Seems like another “jobs for the boys”

 

It is in a way, but not quite in the way you seem to imply. 

 

We gas bods, solid fuel bods, oil bods etc have no influence over the powers that be whatsoever. They make the rules and we have to suck it up. Our pockets are routinely dipped by QUANGOs for all manner of fees and this (IMO) unending collective income stream is the real reason the law demands you use qualified people to do stuff. Those boys doing their jobs will be having to register the installation work they did for you and pay a fee for the privilege. Every single installation. Also pay nosebleed money for routine re-examination and renewal of our tickets. Its a right racket. 

 

There is nothing stopping anyone who fancies doing some of this 'jobs for the boys' work from taking the exams and getting their own tickets to join in at the trough.

 

[GUMPY]

You are legally allowed to fit the stove yourself but you must inform building control first details below.

 

https://www.directstoves.com/our-blog/are-there-building-regulations-for-a-stove/

Edited March 6 by GUMPY

[frangar]

11 hours ago, GUMPY said:

You are legally allowed to fit the stove yourself but you must inform building control first details below.

 

https://www.directstoves.com/our-blog/are-there-building-regulations-for-a-stove/

According to some of the log burner groups I’m on some council building control either now charge lots eg £500 or just say you have to have Hetas sign it off meaning in effect you can’t do a self install. 
 

I’ve been waiting for a reply for a simple planning enquiry for a month now from the local council so I don’t hold out much hope for something more complicated. 

[peterboat]

We have a Huam its extremely good is all I can say

[jonathanA]

a friend of mine even has to be hetas registered to sweep chimneys - (registered for sweeping chimneys not for fitting stoves i should add). 

 

personally I would just get on with it and find a secondhand Squirrel or little wenlock (not the AGA versions made in china).

 

The short length of flue from the top of my stove at home needs replacing and I won't be involving hetas in that 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

According to some of the log burner groups I’m on some council building control either now charge lots eg £500 or just say you have to have Hetas sign it off meaning in effect you can’t do a self install. 
 

I’ve been waiting for a reply for a simple planning enquiry for a month now from the local council so I don’t hold out much hope for something more complicated. 

A lot of councils won't answer planning questions anymore but insist you put a pre-application planning permission in. The Listed Property Owners Club are often moaning about it 

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

According to some of the log burner groups I’m on some council building control either now charge lots eg £500 or just say you have to have Hetas sign it off meaning in effect you can’t do a self install. 

When I needed a new consumer unit the council wanted £175 to process my test results and Ok it, I found a local electrician to fit, test the whole installation and register it for £160. Councils really don't want to be bothered.

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

A lot of councils won't answer planning questions anymore but insist you put a pre-application planning permission in. The Listed Property Owners Club are often moaning about it 

In one local council the Listed Building Officer only works one day a week they can't afford to pay for more than that 😱

[Tonka]

17 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

When I needed a new consumer unit the council wanted £175 to process my test results and Ok it, I found a local electrician to fit, test the whole installation and register it for £160. Councils really don't want to be bothered.

In one local council the Listed Building Officer only works one day a week they can't afford to pay for more than that 😱

Our council didn't have a property conservation officer for a couple of years and when the council save money they are often the first to go.

[canals are us?]

Woodwarm stoves for me.

 

Have the now discontinued fireview 4.5kw stove for the last 11 years heating my 50ft trad narrowboat liveaboard. With 8,000btu backboiler running 2 radiators on a gravity circulation.

 

Simply a joy to use and live with. 2 years ago, for the first time replaced the fireboards and door rope seals. grate, baffle and outer pane of glass original, inner replaced as crazed/etched. 

 

New versions not cheap! Worth it though, as had 3 villager stoves in various properties and the Woodwarm outperforms them in every way.