Battery charging systems

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Manxcat54 said:

Do you understand go away, this place is full of very odd people 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

47 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Gas leak, jesus it's electric get a life

 

8 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Can you go away, seems like the forum is full of know it all's , go check another member out 

 

3 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Do you understand go away, this place is full of very odd people 

You seem to have misunderstood the point that was made about a possible refrigerant gas leak, and now you are sounding off at the forum members who have pointed out your mistake. If that's the way you react to helpful comments, do you think folk here will be willing to help with your next problem?

[truckcab79]

Christ.  You’ve got the ‘way out’ sign same as I did. 😂. How pathetically childish. 🙄. 
 

You have to learn to ignore half the tools on this site.  It’s a very odd place. Block or just ignore them.  Unfortunately this site and their dubious ‘knowledge’ is all they have.  
 

Post your question on the Facebook sites I mentioned earlier. You’ll have a polite rational response in no time. 👍 

[Manxcat54]

Thanks truckcab79

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Post your question on the Facebook sites I mentioned earlier. You’ll have a polite rational response in no time. 👍 

He had polite rational responses here, but chose to go off on one!

[truckcab79]

Just now, David Mack said:

He had polite rational responses here, but chose to go off on one!

🥱 

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

🥱

 

I dunno why you are still here given you feel that way about all the help you get offered but scorn.

 

 

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I dunno why you are still here given you feel that way about all the help you get offered but scorn.

 

 

Because as I said to the last person who asked, it’s my choice how I spend my time, not anyone else’s.
 

I’ve given up asking questions on here due to the supercilious attitudes and frankly bizarre approach to anyone new, but if I can help anyone else or pick up anything from the few and far between builds on here then I’ll continue to pop in.  Broadening your mind to as many inputs as possible can only be a good thing. Thinking that all the info you need is on one site is not.
 

But you do you. I won’t query how you spend your time as it’s not my concern. 
All the best. 

[Ianws]

I remember a post a while back. I think it may have been @MtB referring to work and only doing the job he had been asked to do and not picking up and sorting any other issues found while doing the job as it caused too many problems with the clients. Apologies if i got that wrong or if I'm not recounting it well.

 

Its a shame, as if I was the client I'd like to know about any other issues.

 

Similarly on here. If I was asking about one thing and then a number of other things were raised I'd want to know and check them out.

 

Some people seem to find some posts posts on here aggressive, condescending or rude. The posts can sometimes be blunt and to the point but it's often just keeping things clear. 

 

 

 

[truckcab79]

19 minutes ago, Ianws said:

I remember a post a while back. I think it may have been @MtB referring to work and only doing the job he had been asked to do and not picking up and sorting any other issues found while doing the job as it caused too many problems with the clients. Apologies if i got that wrong or if I'm not recounting it well.

 

Its a shame, as if I was the client I'd like to know about any other issues.

 

Similarly on here. If I was asking about one thing and then a number of other things were raised I'd want to know and check them out.

 

Some people seem to find some posts posts on here aggressive, condescending or rude. The posts can sometimes be blunt and to the point but it's often just keeping things clear. 

 

 

 

 

No. I think if you look at most of them it’s just rude and condescending and designed to put people off. 😂

 

I deal with clients all day every day.  I do exactly as you suggest and point out other issues or just fix them for them as part of the service. I’ve never spoken to any of them the way that some address people on here. I’d be out of business in days if I did.  There’s a huge difference between asking questions to help someone with their query and using every opportunity to belittle them in some weird gate-keeping power-trip because you're a ‘forum elder’. (Yes!  That’s an actual thing that grown-ups say on here 😂😂).
 

The need to prove ‘how clever you are at boats’ sadly outweighs the desire to help with any useful info.  Or god forbid just not answer because you don’t know. Then what would other forum elders think of you! 😱
 

Have a look at someone’s recent request for a new prop in the wanted section if you want yet another example.  

[Machpoint005]

It seems to me that the OP, and Mr Truckcab, are both suffering under the misapprehension that nuances can be expressed in a web post.

 

They can't, and they shouldn't be inferred either. 

 

 

[truckcab79]

7 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

It seems to me that the OP, and Mr Truckcab, are both suffering under the misapprehension that nuances can be expressed in a web post.

 

They can't, and they shouldn't be inferred either. 

 

 

 

Good to see you’ve reinforced the condescending bit for me. 😉😂

 

Much appreciated.  
 

 

Edited February 18 by truckcab79

[Manxcat54]

Sorry if my posts offended anyone, all I needed was a little help with something I was unsure of, but what I ended up with was a very strange feeling of not really being welcome, into some kind of closed club, and some what I found quite condescending replies, maybe it is just me? I hope that in the future I can visit the forum with peace of mind in the hope that I get simple sensible answers when required, hope you all have a good day. Malc 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Sorry if my posts offended anyone, all I needed was a little help with something I was unsure of, but what I ended up with was a very strange feeling of not really being welcome, into some kind of closed club, and some what I found quite condescending replies, maybe it is just me? I hope that in the future I can visit the forum with peace of mind in the hope that I get simple sensible answers when required, hope you all have a good day. Malc 

 

Having spent a fair amount of time researching and trying to answer the OP's original and subsequent questions where there was not enough info given meaning one had to try to make an informed guess and where he moved the goal posts, and then tried to point out that is words MIGHT point to a fridge fault, i found his replies very odd to say the least. I have rather lost interest in trying to guess what he wanted and provide a cost-effective and informative answer, hence my rather direct answer to his reply, with no apparent justification, that his fridge is not a problem, when if my suspicion turns out to be correct it is likely to have a direct effect on his batters and charging system.

 

He does not seem to be very willing to discuss things, so his requirements can be refined.

[Bod]

@Manxcat54

Now you are looking at Lead Acid charging systems, this website may be of interest.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/evolve.html

This was written by an acknowledged expert, it does have a selling slant to the "Smartgauge battery monitor" which is also known as the most accurate and easy to use, of the different battery monitors on the market. (others here will try to poo-poo Smartgauge, but within its limitations works well)

 

Bod

 

 

[blackrose]

24 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Sorry if my posts offended anyone, all I needed was a little help with something I was unsure of, but what I ended up with was a very strange feeling of not really being welcome, into some kind of closed club, and some what I found quite condescending replies, maybe it is just me? I hope that in the future I can visit the forum with peace of mind in the hope that I get simple sensible answers when required, hope you all have a good day. Malc 

 

Well, you told someone who was simply trying to clarify the type of fridge leak that could be the cause of your problem to "go away". That was after you'd misunderstood and told someone else to "get a life". And yet you think it was those people who were being condescending? Yes there can often be something of a know it all attitude on this forum, but in part that's the nature of the internet. However, I think you also need to examine your own attitude and think about whether some of your comments were appropriate, in the light of them being directed towards people who were trying to help you. 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

@Manxcat54

Now you are looking at Lead Acid charging systems, this website may be of interest.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/evolve.html

This was written by an acknowledged expert, it does have a selling slant to the "Smartgauge battery monitor" which is also known as the most accurate and easy to use, of the different battery monitors on the market. (others here will try to poo-poo Smartgauge, but within its limitations works well)

 

Bod

 

 

There are other better battery monitors than the Smartgauge (e.g. Balmar) which also use current as well as voltage to monitor battery SoC and health, but they're also more expensive and need a current shunt.

Edited February 19 by IanD

[magnetman]

The Smartgauge is quite an interesting article. It seems a bit like an eco fan. 

 

 

 

When I first started on Boats I had a great battery SoC monitor. 

 

12 inch 12v black and white telly. Visible screen got smaller when the batteries went low. 

 

 

 

Not sure if one can still use those old sets. Black and white was a good way to watch snooker. 

[Tony1]

On 17/02/2024 at 16:27, Manxcat54 said:

I haven't mentioned which batteries I am using ?

 

I hope you don't give up on the forum yet, it is incredibly useful on a huge range of issues and its worth persisting with.

I do agree with you that in some cases new posters are treated rudely by some of the members, but I don't think what happened to you was a case of that. 

I would ask you to put yourself in the position of the posters here- you made an initial statement about wanting to keep things as simple as possible, and said you thought Victron kit looked a bit too fancy etc. These sorts of phrases would give a very strong impression that you were leaning towards lead acids, which is why a few folks made that assumption. The fact that nobody even suggested lithium clearly shows that everyone here assumed you wouldn't even be interested in considering them. I did myself, and I'm honestly trying to be even handed in saying all this.

 

The thing is that lithium batteries are still unusual enough that if someone plans to use them, they will nearly always state that specifically in their very first post, as it is such a fundamental factor in determining the reply. So they were not being foolish or presumptuous in assuming you wanted lead acids. It was you who gave the impression of wanting lead acids.

 

Then later, when you wrote that phrase I've quoted above, people took umbrage.

Their view on it will be that if lithium was your thing, you needed to be clear about that up front, and not waste people's time by having them write detailed responses. So it is them who have a case for getting a bit tetchy, not you.

 

If you had said "I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I want lithiums", the whole thing would have stayed on track and you would have gotten as much info as you could ever want about the various options.

But they got annoyed because your response above gave the impression that they were somehow wrong to reply based on an assumption- when it was you who left out the key fact they needed to know.

 

It was a simple but key misunderstanding, as we often get because text doesn't convey nuance etc. 

Your specific reply above came across as being overly tetchy and entitled, and I'm sure that's not the case- but they then responded with annoyance, as anyone would who is trying to help but then gets implied criticism from the person they are helping. 

 

The forum can be incredibly helpful, but there is an expectation that people receiving advice will be polite and responsive to clarifying questions, if only from gratitude for the time being freely given to them- and although I really don't like to add to a general  'pile-on', the hard fact is that your phrase above was not helpful or polite, and it triggered much of the hostility. 

 

Anyway, despite the rocky start, I hope things haven't gotten too unpleasant that you never visit again.

There are some posters who do jump on newbies who use certain trigger phrases, but I honestly don't think that happened here, and I hope we can move on and rebuild bridges etc.

 

[Tony Brooks]

38 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The Smartgauge is quite an interesting article. It seems a bit like an eco fan.

 

Although it is now an old design and no good for lithium batteries, in its day, and still today with lead acid batteries, it was the cheapest, most accurate and simplest battery monitor to install and use - provided you understood that the on charge state of charge was inaccurate, but soon after charging has stopped it would correct itself.

 

Its reputation was not helped by a batch that had not been calibrated from the factory. This happened after it was sold onto a major marine electronics supplier.

 

The originator was working on a combined unit that used amp hour counting (so a shunt) and Smartguage technology to correct the inherent problems with Ah counters. This went into production and was bought by the MOD, but its price made it a non-starter for most inland boats. AS far as I can tell the Balmar monitor is like this, but how well the voltage side of things has been implemented I have no idea.

 

Even today, if someone asked me for a battery monitoring recommendation that was simple to install and effective, while being reasonably priced I would have to say the Smartguage, BUT I would point out its little quirk. However, a little knowledge plus a shunted ammeter and voltmeter will do as well as any battery monitor for LA batteries.

[nicknorman]

10 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

Sorry if my posts offended anyone, all I needed was a little help with something I was unsure of, but what I ended up with was a very strange feeling of not really being welcome, into some kind of closed club, and some what I found quite condescending replies, maybe it is just me? I hope that in the future I can visit the forum with peace of mind in the hope that I get simple sensible answers when required, hope you all have a good day. Malc 

Your posts didn’t offend me, but they did irritate me a bit. You started off with a very general question which gave the impression you didn’t know much. I spent some time going over the basics in my replies. Yes basics, but it still takes time and effort to write the words. Then it seemed you had intentionally tricked us by not mentioning that you were going to go for Lithium batteries. And then shortly after asking for help and me spending some time giving it, you changed your mind and decided you didn’t want any help. And now we are condescending apparently. All of which leads me to believe that you are quite an annoying and high maintenance person on whom I shall certainly not be wasting any more time.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Your posts didn’t offend me, but they did irritate me a bit. You started off with a very general question which gave the impression you didn’t know much. I spent some time going over the basics in my replies. Yes basics, but it still takes time and effort to write the words. Then it seemed you had intentionally tricked us by not mentioning that you were going to go for Lithium batteries. And then shortly after asking for help and me spending some time giving it, you changed your mind and decided you didn’t want any help. And now we are condescending apparently. All of which leads me to believe that you are quite an annoying and high maintenance person on whom I shall certainly not be wasting any more time.

 

Given that the OP was making what was effectively a peace offering post, that's exactly the kind of unhelpful and condescending reply that wound him up in the first place... 😞

Edited February 19 by IanD

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Given that the OP was making what was effectively a peace offering post, that's exactly the kind of unhelpful and condescending reply that wound him up in the first place... 😞

He deserves to know how he made me feel.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Given that the OP was making what was effectively a peace offering post, that's exactly the kind of unhelpful and condescending reply that wound him up in the first place... 😞

I wouldnt say that his initial reaction was ever going to be "forgiven".

Good manners when asking for help are pretty much a given in a civilised society.

An apology is acceptable.

Edited February 19 by LadyG

[IanD]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I wouldnt say that his initial reaction was ever going to be "forgiven".

Good manners when asking for help are pretty much a given in a civilised society.

An apology is acceptable.

Indeed it is, and that's exactly what he posted -- only to get an unnecessarily ungracious reply, just the kind he'd (justifiably?) been complaining about. And then another one trying to justify it -- which pretty much confirms what he was complaining about... 😞

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

He deserves to know how he made me feel.

That's exactly the kind of attitude that discourages newbies from posting on CWDF... 😞

Edited February 19 by IanD