Getting off a lee bank, against the wind

[max campbell]

We used to have an outboard powered Viking, and we've moved up to an inboard diesel Sea Otter (centre cockpit, wheel steering), with no thrusters.

 

If I got pinned against a bank in the Viking (by the wind), I could pull myself out by reversing and pointing the outboard to where I wanted to go.

 

I strikes me all I can do with an inboard is to push hard with a pole and thrust forward before I get blown back on, but do any clever experienced inboard helmsmen have any tips?

[Oddjob]

Make tea and wait for wind to die down 

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, max campbell said:

We used to have an outboard powered Viking, and we've moved up to an inboard diesel Sea Otter (centre cockpit, wheel steering), with no thrusters.

 

If I got pinned against a bank in the Viking (by the wind), I could pull myself out by reversing and pointing the outboard to where I wanted to go.

 

I strikes me all I can do with an inboard is to push hard with a pole and thrust forward before I get blown back on, but do any clever experienced inboard helmsmen have any tips?

 

I suppose that with a centre cockpit, that is about all you can do. If it had a stern cockpit, you could try springing it off in reverse, but as you would have difficulty getting the rope off the bollard and your stern T stud, I doubt it is practical.

[magnetman]

If it is tied up somewhere secure and you have someone at the front then you could spring it by motoring forward onto a rope tied around bollard/ring and led back to the person at the front. This involves contact with the bank and the person at the front knowing what to do and retrieving the rope at the right time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A bit awkward with a new Boat but I'm pretty sure pieces of wood were used to get the bows out on horse drawn Boats if pinned.

 

Basically a suitable bough with a fork in it from a nearby tree with the fork end lashed to the front mooring point and the other end jammed in the canal bank at an angle going forwards from the Boat.

 

Then you go forwards and the wooden bough levers the front of the Boat away from the side. 

 

Would be fun to try but could all go a bit wrong !

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by magnetman

[max campbell]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I have "sprung off" on a sailing boat, with curvy sides. Would springing the bow off by reversing into a stern spring have any effect on a parallel-sided boat?  I'll try it next time. I can imaging motoring forward into a bow spring might swing the stern out, but then you've got to try and reverse, and I have little control over reverse direction, and the bow gets blown back on.

[magnetman]

45 minutes ago, Oddjob said:

Make tea and wait for wind to die down 

Good Idea. 

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, max campbell said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

I have "sprung off" on a sailing boat, with curvy sides. Would springing the bow off by reversing into a stern spring have any effect on a parallel-sided boat?  I'll try it next time. I can imaging motoring forward into a bow spring might swing the stern out, but then you've got to try and reverse, and I have little control over reverse direction, and the bow gets blown back on.

 

From memory, your stern cleats are almost right on the corners, so in my view it should pivot on the corner as you spring off. I know it works on NBs with rounded or elliptical sterns.

[Iain_S]

12 minutes ago, max campbell said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

I have "sprung off" on a sailing boat, with curvy sides. Would springing the bow off by reversing into a stern spring have any effect on a parallel-sided boat?  I'll try it next time. I can imaging motoring forward into a bow spring might swing the stern out, but then you've got to try and reverse, and I have little control over reverse direction, and the bow gets blown back on.

It works most of the time, but fails when length of boat plus wind speed combine to overcome the leverage of engine against stern post. Short and wide helps; narrow and long hinders,

 

When we moored at Barton Turns, the service area seemed to always be a lee shore! Easy getting in, but hard to get out. My most successful method was a bow spring to take the stern off, and then reverse back to the marina entrance, where the boat could be turned. The reverse was made easier by the wind being from the stern to bow. Th OP may find this method will work, as a centre cockpit Sea Otter is 26' or 31', so can get the stern to a greater angle than is possible with a longer boat.

[David Mack]

I can remember boating with friends in a 70 ft narrowboat when no amount of effort could get the boat off the lee bank. One end or the other always got blown back into the bank before the engine could give the boat enough speed to be able to steer against the wind. In the end we dragged the boat back a couple of hundred yards to a length where there were trees both sides and the canal itself was more sheltered. Then it was a case of keeping the revs up and proceeding crabwise along the cut to avoid getting blown back into the bank.

 

Sometimes just putting the kettle on and waiting for the wind to drop is the better option!

[Stroudwater1]

You could try pushing off from the bow with a long shaft from the well deck, if there are three a push off by one person with one leg on the bank one on the boat and two hands on the handrail then the other pushing from the well deck with a long shaft may do it, the person at the stern ready to power off. 

 

Or have a bow thruster too 😂

 

If you don’t manage then a cup of tea some soup or hot chocolate would be best. 

[magnetman]

Cheap grappling hook on a long thin doubled rope thrown to the other side. 

 

Once its secured haul the Boat out then motor away and let go of one end of the rope leaving the hook behind. 

 

They aren't expensive. £5 each. Could save the day and next time you arrr there on a calm day the hook will probably be there. 

 

Use 5mm lawnmower starter cord as it doesn't stretch. 

 

Cheap grappling hook: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404650957314

 

 

There is an argument for using strong elastic for these. Don't be in line though because if it detaches it can come back really fast. 

[TheBiscuits]

8 hours ago, max campbell said:

I have "sprung off" on a sailing boat, with curvy sides. Would springing the bow off by reversing into a stern spring have any effect on a parallel-sided boat?

 

Yes.  

 

It's amazing how many people don't understand this, and despite comments above it's never failed me yet.  If the wind is so strong it doesn't work it's probably a hurricane, and at least you're still tied to a lee shore at one end!

 

The reverse spring (as you suggest) is much easier than the forward spring, especially when you're single handed ...

[magnetman]

There is a risk of prop fouling when reversing and springing off a starn line if the water is shallow. clickety click on the prop. 

 

Also if it is excessively windy and you are reversing the rudder can be put at risk depending on construction of the canal bank. 

 

It does work but if the Boat is light, which it seems to be, it could do unpredictable things. 

 

I would look after the rudder and starn gear on an aluminium narrow Boat very carefully. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would find it preferable on balance with this particular Boat to get the back end into deep water as early as possible rather than encouraging it to get into shallower water. 

Also I think the Sea Otters have square starns not rounded anyway. 

Its this Boat I believe.

 

 

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, Oddjob said:

Make tea and wait for wind to die down 

 

I tend to agree. If the wind is strong enough to pin the boat to the bank one has to ask why you need to be moving in such windy conditions?

 

I often see people struggling in poor weather conditions and can't help wondering why they do it. I think it's the car driver mentality where it's imperative one must move, combined with a lack of awareness of what could potentially go wrong and an inability to get things into perspective. If you don't need to move in poor conditions, don't move.

 

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Cheap grappling hook on a long thin doubled rope thrown to the other side. 

 

Once its secured haul the Boat out then motor away and let go of one end of the rope leaving the hook behind. 

 

They aren't expensive. £5 each. Could save the day and next time you arrr there on a calm day the hook will probably be there. 

 

Use 5mm lawnmower starter cord as it doesn't stretch. 

 

Cheap grappling hook: 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404650957314

 

 

There is an argument for using strong elastic for these. Don't be in line though because if it detaches it can come back really fast. 

 

Now this is really getting into Bizzard territory - ridiculous ideas proposed partly in jest which must come from the fingertips just as they form in the brain. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by blackrose

[magnetman]

Not really. 

 

If you look a the Boat in question it is actually a very light weight craft. 

 

If they do really want to get away from the side in windy conditions the hook could do this because it is not a heavy Boat. 

I admit throwing the hook against a howling gale would be awkward. 

 

I have already agreed with a previous poster on this thread that making tea was the best option. 

 

 

It depends how badly they want to get away. It could be an emergency. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by magnetman

[blackrose]

So it was actually a serious suggestion? 🤣 For someone with so much boating experience you really do come out with some nonsense sometimes! Doing what you're suggesting is more likely to lead to accidents and even more problems. 

 

If it's an emergency I doubt they have time to post messages on the forum and wait for replies. If it's a real emergency they should get off the boat.

[magnetman]

 

 

Although Bow Thrusters are pointless in virtually every situation imaginable I think this little Sea Otter of all boats is one of the 0.13% of canal Boats which could actually benefit from such a device. 

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

So it was actually a serious suggestion? 🤣 For someone with so much boating experience you really do come out with some nonsense sometimes! Doing what you're suggesting is more likely to lead to accidents and even more problems. 

 

If it's an emergency I doubt they have time to post messages on the forum and wait for replies. If it's a real emergency they should get off the boat.

 

They were planning ahead about what to do in the event of the Boat getting pinned to the bank. 

 

There is no emergency and I doubt they would take my suggestion seriously anyway. 

[DandV]

I tried a variety of methods  using springs, bow thruster, and pole to get free in 58ft narrowboat, and did usually succeed, but I was unsuccesful  in actually identifying  a single reliable method.

I did learn though to avoid stopping on the outside of a lee shore bend in windy conditions.

Success was instead was most likely by a fortuitous timed drop in wind.strength.

Tying up and waiting was allround much less stressful..

 

[Mike Todd]

Go into fwd gear and turn the steering to push the stern out into the deeper water.  Then go hard astern with opposite or straight steering until bow is free. You often have to take tte stern much further out than you first think. On most canas no ropes are needed as the reeds hold the bow enough to turn out.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Mike Todd said:

Go into fwd gear and turn the steering to push the stern out into the deeper water.  Then go hard astern with opposite or straight steering until bow is free. You often have to take tte stern much further out than you first think. On most canas no ropes are needed as the reeds hold the bow enough to turn out.

 

I very much doubt that will work on steel or concrete piling, especially if it has a waling bar. I think a number of potential solutions are needed, depending upon the situations.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

Cheap grappling hook on a long thin doubled rope thrown to the other side. 

 

Once its secured haul the Boat out then motor away and let go of one end of the rope leaving the hook behind. 

 

Or attach one end of the doubled rope to the centre of the grapnel (on the 'outside') its called a trip line.

I cannot find a picture of a grapnel rigged with a trip line. The grapnels have an 'eye' ring where the 4 arms pivot.

 

 

 

Or you can use a single line with a 'weak link' so that when you pull hard it snaps and trips the line pulling the anchor out backwards.

 

 

[magnetman]

A cable tie of the right strength could work as the weak link. 

 

 

Maybe a great big fan on the front of the Boat mounted athwartships would help. 

 

Its a terrible thought but this little Sea Otter wants a bowprop. 

 

[BEngo]

I once got caught on a lee bank on the Market Harborough arm.  I eventually got off by pushing the bow out and leaving it with the shaft in the water between bow and bank, holding me in deepish water,  then repeating that at the stern, before engaging ahead and winding it on fully.  The shafts were tied on with some string so came  alongside  me to the A6 bridge where I was able to stop and recover them.

 

N

[robtheplod]

I've given up fighting the wind since i went to fill up in our marina one day and got pinned to the bank for half a day!

[magnetman]

A large bicycle wheel might work. It would float flat. Or a large diameter life ring.