Plans for a 57ft narrowboat

[Black Bull]

I have been looking for a narrowboat that has what i need but cant find so I Think i will make one I work in a fabrication business so every thing is available

and the space to build There are lots of different designs I am not sure which to go for My only other concern will be how much ballast will i need Will this be advised by the Drawing design guy Also dont want a very deep draft 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Welcome to the forum.

How much inland boating experience do you have? Hiring, or owning such boats. What are the features that you need that aren't available in any for sale?

Which designs are you looking at?

Ballast will depend on what else is in the boat, including the interior fit out, engine, people and their stuff. This can vary enormously from otherwise identical boat to boat. The ballast is fitted to get the boat to sit in the water to the designed depth, fore and aft and side to side trim. Slightly bow up and level side to side ideally. Not something the designer can know, without knowing all the above. People add/remove/move ballast till it sits how they want.

Are you aware of the recreational craft directive and its requirements? Do you have, or have access to all the other skills required, other than fabrication. Woodwork, engines, electrical, painting, etc?

[Black Bull]

Thanks for the comments

We all have access to all the other relevant skills and ways of working on the water way by the Internet  this is why I can tacted this site for you advise As I said I lije what I lije and with out spending 100k which I have no intension I will build my own

I have built cars and factories and parts of nuclear power stations so this is just another learning curve 

So is there a preference design that is best

 

[system 4-50]

2 hours ago, Black Bull said:

Drawing design guy

What is one of those?

[Alan de Enfield]

53 minutes ago, Black Bull said:

I have built cars and factories and parts of nuclear power stations so this is just another learning curve 

 

I'm sure when you built cars, factories and nuclear power stations you were working with specified & approved materials and assembling to the required specifications, it is exactly the same with a boat.

The Recreational Craft Directive specifies everything from the type of cable / wire construction, the size and materials used for gas piping.  the type of approved engines you can use to the maximum roll and heel limits right up to the maximum number of people allowed on board.

 

Many people think you can just weld a few bits of steel and have a boat - it then needs to pass its Boat Safety Scheme test (Like the car MOT) be acceptable to the Insurers and finally be granted a licence fo use on C&RT waters.

 

People do fit out their own boats, but generally they buy the empty shell as that is the complex part - get it wrong and it will just not handle correctly.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Black Bull said:

So is there a preference design that is best

 

 

You've already said that you can't find what you're looking for in an existing design so surely you already have a different design in mind that you prefer?

 

Since you haven't answered Jen's question regarding what features you need that aren't available in any other boats for sale, it's difficult to recommend any design.

[ditchcrawler]

Are there actually any decent plans available for a Narrowboat hull?

[Batavia]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are there actually any decent plans available for a Narrowboat hull?

Selway Fisher have a design for a narrowboat (and a wide beam!)- and have produced other designs in the past.

https://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcover30.htm#AVONCLIFF NARROW

[Tracy D'arth]

There used to be a guy in High Lane Stockport who advertised in Waterways World and sold plans for narrowboats, a long time ago.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There used to be a guy in High Lane Stockport who advertised in Waterways World and sold plans for narrowboats, a long time ago.

But I recall these were very conventional middle-of-the-road clonecraft design. So similar to the output of a range of shell builders. In which case buying a shell or sailaway would get a boat quicker.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Recreational Craft Directive specifies everything from the type of cable / wire construction, the size and materials used for gas piping.  the type of approved engines you can use to the maximum roll and heel limits right up to the maximum number of people allowed on board.

 

 

This is true. About the only thing the RCD (now RCR) doesn't specify is the most important thing of all - how to make it actually look like a boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, MtB said:

 

This is true. About the only thing the RCD (now RCR) doesn't specify is the most important thing of all - how to make it actually look like a boat.

 

If they did NBs would be banned.

Who in their right-mind would make a steel tube 6'10 wide / diameter and call it a boat ?

[BilgePump]

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If they did NBs would be banned.

Who in their right-mind would make a steel tube 6'10 wide / diameter and call it a boat ?

Point of order m'lud. A submarine is big long tube and they call it a boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

Point of Order to your Point of Order

 

The subject under discussion here is the RCR here and SUBMERSIBLES are specifically excluded from the RCR so yaa-boo !

 

But back to your comment :

 

The Japanese "A-Type" midget submarines (not known as a midget-boat) had a length of 80 feet, a beam of 6'6" and a displacement of 58 - 70 tonnes.

But - they were certainly not 'for recreational use' so would not have fallen under the auspices of the RCR / RCD anyway

 

 

[Canal321]

5 year rule

If a craft is entirely built (including the shell) by a DIY boatbuilder only for their personal use it is excluded from the RCR provided it is not placed on the market within 5 years of its first use as a boat. The boat does not have to be complete for the 5 year period to start, but does have to have been used as a boat (e.g. cruised on a waterway). The '5-year rule' does not apply to sailaway craft that have been completed by the first owner, as such craft have to be assessed under Post Construction Assessment by an Approved Body.

 

https://www.abnb.co.uk/useful-information/faq-rcd#:~:text=If a craft is entirely,first use as a boat.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

19 hours ago, Batavia said:

Selway Fisher have a design for a narrowboat (and a wide beam!)- and have produced other designs in the past.

https://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcover30.htm#AVONCLIFF NARROW

It's an unusual design from what can be seen on the web site. Vertical cabin sides above the gunwale, slopping sides below. The opposite of what you'd expect and want. Short bow and well deck.

[Tony Brooks]

20 hours ago, Black Bull said:

Thanks for the comments

We all have access to all the other relevant skills and ways of working on the water way by the Internet  this is why I can tacted this site for you advise As I said I lije what I lije and with out spending 100k which I have no intension I will build my own

I have built cars and factories and parts of nuclear power stations so this is just another learning curve 

So is there a preference design that is best

 

 

Just be aware that vehicle electricians, who are the closet you normally get to what is needed for boat can foul up on boats, house/factory electricians even more so - big time.

 

Please be aware that if you make it too idiosyncratic and you ever need to sell, you will probably have to offer a substantial discount compared with other boats of a similar size.

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just be aware that vehicle electricians, who are the closet you normally get to what is needed for boat can foul up on boats, house/factory electricians even more so - big time.

 

Please be aware that if you make it too idiosyncratic and you ever need to sell, you will probably have to offer a substantial discount compared with other boats of a similar size.

 

One example : Folks who wire up cars just assume they can do boats the same (ie using the chassis / metal work for the return - as we know (but newbie boat builders don't) that is totally Verboten (by regulation) for boats

[Tony Brooks]

58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

One example : Folks who wire up cars just assume they can do boats the same (ie using the chassis / metal work for the return - as we know (but newbie boat builders don't) that is totally Verboten (by regulation) for boats

 

Yes, and when they do the electric worms stand a very good chance of eating the hull.

[Peanut]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It's an unusual design from what can be seen on the web site. Vertical cabin sides above the gunwale, slopping sides below. The opposite of what you'd expect and want. Short bow and well deck.

I have a set of study plans for the shorter one, the topsides definitely have tumblehome. I would expect the longer one to have some as well. The plans can be customised as much as you like.

[Tacet]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

One example : Folks who wire up cars just assume they can do boats the same (ie using the chassis / metal work for the return - as we know (but newbie boat builders don't) that is totally Verboten (by regulation) for boats

Which regulation totally forbids using the metal work for the return?  The Boat Safety Scheme makes it mandatory for hire boats and only advisory for private boats.  The Recreational Craft Regulations make no direct reference at all.

 

Are you sure you're not overstating the position?

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Tacet said:

The Recreational Craft Regulations make no direct reference at all.

 

The RCR states that ISO 10133 "Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations" is an accepted way of achieving the RCD requirements.

 

ISO 10133 states :

 

4 General requirements

4.1 The system type shall be either a fully insulated two-wire d.c. system or a two-wire d.c. system with a negative ground. The hull shall not be used as a current-carrying conductor. Engine-mounted wiring systems may use the engine block as the grounded conductor

 

You are correct that the BSS only requires this for commercial boats and if a private boat corrodes away and drowns the owner, it is beyond the remit of the BSS so they 'don't care'.

[Tacet]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The RCR states that ISO 10133 "Small craft — Electrical systems — Extra-low-voltage d.c. installations" is an accepted way of achieving the RCD requirements.

 

ISO 10133 states :

 

4 General requirements

4.1 The system type shall be either a fully insulated two-wire d.c. system or a two-wire d.c. system with a negative ground. The hull shall not be used as a current-carrying conductor. Engine-mounted wiring systems may use the engine block as the grounded conductor

 

You are correct that the BSS only requires this for commercial boats and if a private boat corrodes away and drowns the owner, it is beyond the remit of the BSS so they 'don't care'.

Indeed.  But the RCR does not require you to meet ISO - so using the hull as an electrical return is not totally verboten, as you claimed.

 

Whether it is a good practice is another question of course.  The prospect of drowning because the hull is used as a return is one on which I might be prepared to take a chance.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Indeed.  But the RCR does not require you to meet ISO - so using the hull as an electrical return is not totally verboten, as you claimed.

 

But the RCR DOES require you to meet the same standards as that given by the ISO specs, and, if you use 'other means' you are required to have the boat tested and certified that it does achieve those same levels of protection.

[Tony Brooks]

Also relying upon the current capacity stated on the cable drum is another area that often trips autoelectricians up.