Hello everyone!

[truckcab79]

Hi

 

Apologies if this is the wrong place but can’t see an ‘introductions’ section.  
 

Subject to survey we’ve just bought our first narrowboat. She’s a lovely 36ft Springer (thin steel blah blah blah, I know), but that’s what the survey is for and seller will take care of any issues found by the survey including overplating if required before we transfer the balance of the money. Pictures to follow when we know its all going ahead.  

Virtually the first boat we looked at but exactly what we were after. A (hopefully) sound structure for us to re-fit. 
 

Interior is pretty much bare already and what is there I’ll be taking out and replacing.  
 

I’ll be doing all the work myself but I’m a landscaper / kitchen / bathroom / handyman by trade so no issue with skills or tools. Really looking forward to it.  
 

I will have a thousand questions so please bear with me.  
 

This won’t be a live-aboard and we’re very happy with a basic set-up. It’ll be for weekends and holidays.   We’ll need a kitchen, toilet, shower, bed and not much else. This won’t be a glitzy build, mostly because it’s just not the look we like.  It’ll be simple and homely.  

 

Our narrowboat experience is a couple of rental holidays some years ago, which we loved, and we love boats and the boating lifestyle despite not having owned one prior to this, so we need to learn everything.  
 

Firstly though we need to find somewhere to keep it!  Needs to be affordable but more importantly near enough to home to work on it each weekend.  
 

We’re chasing up all the marinas but if anyone knows of a mooring within say 20 miles of Borehamwood, Herts,  I’d love to hear about it. 

Thanks in advance.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

I’ll be doing all the work myself but I’m a landscaper / kitchen / bathroom / handyman by trade so no issue with skills or tools. Really looking forward to it.  

 

Just be aware that there are rules and regulations about what you can do, what materials you can use and particularly how gas and electrics must be installed.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Welcome, I would just say, I doubt the seller will be paying for the boat to have a full re-plate possibly £8k plus, if the surveyor says the boat needs one. How much is the boat worth? Be careful not to get too excited and get carried away ripping everything out, take your time as it can be easy to create work that doesn’t need doing.

Edited August 28, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[truckcab79]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just be aware that there are rules and regulations about what you can do, what materials you can use and particularly how gas and electrics must be installed.

Yep. Aware of that and been reading up on what I can and can’t do. Same as for my kitchen and bathroom work on that score. Happy to bring in specialists where needed.  

5 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Welcome, I would just say, I doubt the seller will be paying for the boat to have a full re-plate possibly £8k plus, if the surveyor says the boat needs one. How much is the boat worth? Be careful not to get too excited and get carried away ripping everything out, take your time as it can be easy to create work that doesn’t need doing.

I’m sure,  though it’s a Marina selling it so wouldn’t cost them that of course as it’s their own labour.  Hopefully won’t need too much and contract says that if it’s uneconomical to do so then I get my money back so I’ll have just lost the survey price.
 

Not much in there to rip out. It’s basically just a wood-panelled shell and I’ll want to take it out to renew around windows where some of the timber isn’t great, and to run lighting, power etc.  it’s probably salvageable in part but the amount of work compared to replacing with new is likely to be negligible. 

[LadyG]

OK, well, first thing is to establish the current ownership, a broker may just be an agent or he may have purchased the boat in the course of his business, which means the boat has to be fit for purpose,  in law.

Either way, does it have a current Boat Safety Certificate, which it needs, they are renewed every four years. 

It sounds as though there may be some water ingress via the windows, do you feel up to removing them, this may be a lot of work, and involve sanding and power tools, rust treatment and so on.

We are getting late in the year, it might be a plan to get out and about boating now, then have it craned out, to work on it over winter. It might be worth looking for a local yard or boat club, and fit in with their arrangements for cranage.

Hope the survey is good, best to do most of any work yourself, as it gets very demoralising paying £50 per hour for work done at a boatyard. Best to use email to confirm any instructions to avoid confusion.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by LadyG

[Quattrodave]

11 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

if anyone knows of a mooring within say 20 miles of Borehamwood, Herts,

 

Which waterway would you like to be on?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Quattrodave

[truckcab79]

3 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Which waterway would you like to be on?

Any that’s near enough to work on the boat short term to be honest. That’s the priority, and then we’ll decide where we fancy.  

[magnetman]

Grand Union around Watford has a few CRT long term mooring sites. 

 

The website where they are listed is https://www.watersidemooring.com

 

It is a very popular area so availability may be a bit sparse around there. There does not appear to be anything between Aylesbury and Hayes at the moment but keep an eye on it as a lot of them get listed as two week auctions if someone is leaving the mooring. Also a few marinas about but again these will be busy. 

 

 

 

[truckcab79]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

OK, well, first thing is to establish the current ownership, a broker may just be an agent or he may have purchased the boat in the course of his business, which means the boat has to be fit for purpose,  in law.

Either way, does it have a current Boat Safety Certificate, which it needs, they are renewed every four years. 

It sounds as though there may be some water ingress via the windows, do you feel up to removing them, this may be a lot of work, and involve sanding and power tools, rust treatment and so on.

We are getting late in the year, it might be a plan to get out and about boating now, then have it craned out, to work on it over winter. It might be worth looking for a local yard or boat club, and fit in with their arrangements for cranage.

Hope the survey is good, best to do most of any work yourself, as it gets very demoralising paying £50 per hour for work done at a boatyard. Best to use email to confirm any instructions to avoid confusion.

 

BSC until Feb 26. 
So long as it’s sound structurally none of the work phases me at all. In my day job I design and build gardens, fencing, patios, ponds, pergolas, wood fired oven. I also fit kitchens and bathrooms and restore cars and build engines.  So pretty much covered on all skills and equipment including being able to stick, mig and tig weld though I have no intention of doing any plating myself if I can avoid it.  
 

My main issue will be that my business currently occupies me 7 days as week and I’m trying to take less on and give myself some weekends ‘off’. Hence the boat. 
 

In other news I think we have a Marina spot at Harefield.  Complete with HS2 alongside so may be not the prettiest but conveniently placed and they sound very helpful on the phone.  (According to my wife as I’m currently painting a clients house!) 😂

Just now, magnetman said:

Grand Union around Watford has a few CRT long term mooring sites. 

 

The website where they are listed is https://www.watersidemooring.com

 

It is a very popular area so availability may be a bit sparse around there. There does not appear to be anything between Aylesbury and Hayes at the moment but keep an eye on it as a lot of them get listed as two week auctions if someone is leaving the mooring. Also a few marinas about but again these will be busy. 

 

 

 

Cheers.  Saw those last night as it happens.  They’re a backstop if we need to but think we’re sorted.  

[magnetman]

Harefield is good. It is a bit alarming how close the railway is going to be but I don't think they are scheduled to put trains on it until 2029 or something. If ever ! 

 

Construction noise presumably a bit unpleasant.

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

It’s pretty left field perhaps but have you considered lifting out of the water and leaving it much nearer to you on dry land? Save you mooring fees but then you can’t nip out on the boat  before the boat is finished of course. You would save on mooring and licence fees in the meantime. 
 

Many/most Springers don’t have a flat base so you would need to carefully chock. You may know someone that could accommodate that? 

[BWM]

Harefield is good, they may also be able to put your boat on hardstanding too, which will enable the work to be carried out far easier. 

  It may be worth asking the seller if they would be happy to pay what it would cost for overplating and you to pay the extra towards having the job done properly - re plating, as overplating on thinner steel won't necessarily last long. 

[truckcab79]

35 minutes ago, BWM said:

Harefield is good, they may also be able to put your boat on hardstanding too, which will enable the work to be carried out far easier. 

  It may be worth asking the seller if they would be happy to pay what it would cost for overplating and you to pay the extra towards having the job done properly - re plating, as overplating on thinner steel won't necessarily last long. 

 

Cheers. I’ll see what the survey comes back with before I decide how to go forward.  Booked for next week.  Presumably if I don’t buy then the next survey is just going to say the same thing so they’ll need to negotiate with someone.   

43 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

It’s pretty left field perhaps but have you considered lifting out of the water and leaving it much nearer to you on dry land? Save you mooring fees but then you can’t nip out on the boat  before the boat is finished of course. You would save on mooring and licence fees in the meantime. 
 

Many/most Springers don’t have a flat base so you would need to carefully chock. You may know someone that could accommodate that? 

 

I think if it came to that we’d probably just look for another boat to be honest. We’re quite happy to slum it in what is essentially an empty shed on the water but we do want to actually be on the water.   

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

I think if it came to that we’d probably just look for another boat to be honest.

 

The vast majority (99% ?) are V-bottom to some extent so it is no big issue to 'prop' them either with lengths of wood or cradles / stands.

 

Our boat on steel stands and wooden pit-props.

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Beware, overplating small Springers reduces the freeboard alarmingly, many sink afterwards.

[Fat Boat]

Winckwell and cowroast

[BWM]

2 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

 

Cheers. I’ll see what the survey comes back with before I decide how to go forward.  Booked for next week.  Presumably if I don’t buy then the next survey is just going to say the same thing so they’ll need to negotiate with someone.   

 

I think if it came to that we’d probably just look for another boat to be honest. We’re quite happy to slum it in what is essentially an empty shed on the water but we do want to actually be on the water.   

The suggestion made regards out of water is to assist with loading materials, extra space for tools/workmate, etc. Any painting and cabin repairs will be much more straightforward too - teetering on the gunwhale of any narrow boat isn't pleasant but the usually very narrow ones on Springers could be interesting...

[truckcab79]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The vast majority (99% ?) are V-bottom to some extent so it is no big issue to 'prop' them either with lengths of wood or cradles / stands.

 

Our boat on steel stands and wooden pit-props.

 

 

 

Cheers. I’m not concerned with how I’d support it, more that I want to keep it in the water if possible to get some use out of while it’s being fitted out.  Would definitely be easier I appreciate but not really what I’m after.  

I’ve fitted plenty of tiny bathrooms so have had lots of practice working on awkward confined spaces thankfully.  

8 hours ago, Fat Boat said:

Winckwell and cowroast

Thank you.  I had Cowroast on my list to call. Looks nice, but think we’re sorted at Hatfield.  Am going to pop there Thursday to meet and greet if I can. 

 

8 hours ago, Fat Boat said:

Winckwell and cowroast

 

8 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Beware, overplating small Springers reduces the freeboard alarmingly, many sink afterwards.

Thanks. Good to bear in mind. Is ‘Many’ based on some statistics that you can direct me toward? I’m a bit wary of unsubstantiated forum advice (I don’t mean this forum specifically) so don’t want to worry about something that is just internet hearsay if I can see the data for myself to check.  Is there for instance a recognised maximum weight you can add to a 36ft springer and what average weight overplating would add in regard to that?  

Edited August 29, 2023 by truckcab79

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Thanks. Good to bear in mind. Is ‘Many’ based on some statistics that you can direct me toward? I’m a bit wary of unsubstantiated forum advice (I don’t mean this forum specifically) so don’t want to worry about something that is just internet hearsay if I can see the data for myself to check.  Is there for instance a recognised maximum weight you can add to a 36ft springer and what average weight overplating would add in regard to that?  

 

Here is one example :

 

Port of London - River Thames (pla.co.uk)

 

 

[truckcab79]

Many thanks.  I can see that would be an issue.  Obviously that one was on The Thames so likely to be at much more risk than the average canal.  Do you have info on the ‘many’ though as opposed to a one-off scenario?  Would be good to know if this is a recognised and widespread issue with over-plating Springers as was suggested?   Even if it doesn’t need doing now I’d like to know that I may be storing up an issue for later.  

[David Mack]

Springers are lightly built craft, so overplating may be proportionately heavier compared to other craft. The example Alan has shown above is one he keeps bringing up, and it obvious that that particular boat was vulnerable before it was overplated since it had an obvious hull opening close to the water line. If you have no such opening, or it is filled in as part of the work, then you don't really have to worry on that score (although you may need to review the engine ventilation/cooling arrangements).

[truckcab79]

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

Springers are lightly built craft, so overplating may be proportionately heavier compared to other craft. The example Alan has shown above is one he keeps bringing up, and it obvious that that particular boat was vulnerable before it was overplated since it had an obvious hull opening close to the water line. If you have no such opening, or it is filled in as part of the work, then you don't really have to worry on that score (although you may need to review the engine ventilation/cooling arrangements).

Cheers.  

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, David Mack said:

Springers are lightly built craft, so overplating may be proportionately heavier compared to other craft. The example Alan has shown above is one he keeps bringing up, and it obvious that that particular boat was vulnerable before it was overplated since it had an obvious hull opening close to the water line. If you have no such opening, or it is filled in as part of the work, then you don't really have to worry on that score (although you may need to review the engine ventilation/cooling arrangements).

Hmm, I would suggest that OP waits for the survey before making a decision. Taking on work just because you can may not not be a good idea of  OP is busy making money from the day job.

Doing up a project can take longer than you imagine and cost a lot more than you planned for..... there are oft quoted stats on here, but as OP wants proven statistics, there is no point in being more specific. 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by LadyG

[truckcab79]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Hmm, I would suggest that OP waits for the survey before making a decision. Taking on work just because you can may not not be a good idea of  OP is busy making money from the day job.

Doing up a project can take longer than you imagine and cost a lot more than you planned for..... there are oft quoted stats on here, but as OP wants proven statistics, there is no point in being more specific. 

 

Not doing anything until I’ve got a survey obviously so this isn’t really a thread about overplating my boat. It just seems to have gone off that way. The stats request was just to help to quantify someone’s assertion that ‘many’ sink after this work and I’ve been on enough forums to know that there is a tendency to just repeat what was posted often, until it becomes a ‘fact’ so I always question stuff like that. 
 

 

Project creep and cost control has been my day job in various way for decades so I’m fine with that. At this stage just keen to get to the stage where I know this boat is good enough as a starting point or whether I walk away and carry on looking.   
 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

I notice OP expects the survey to indicate the cost of any repairs. I'm not sure about this, maybe OP should read current thread, titled " I think I'm in trouble" or some such. That looks as bad as it gets!