Two stroke engine ban, really?

[Bubblebuster]

Can anybody clarify what the situation is regarding the use of two stroke outboard engines on our rivers and canals here in the UK as I'm going to be a lot more than miffed if on buying one I'm told err, sorry fella, not here you can't. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Bubblebuster
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[Tracy D'arth]

No ban as far as I know. But the availability of 2 stroke mix may lead to their demise.

[PhilR]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

No ban as far as I know. But the availability of 2 stroke mix may lead to their demise.

 

There is unlikely to be a shortage of 2 stroke oil in the foreseeable future. If there was how would people fuel their chainsaws and strimmers ?

[matty40s]

9 minutes ago, PhilR said:

 

There is unlikely to be a shortage of 2 stroke oil in the foreseeable future. If there was how would people fuel their chainsaws and strimmers ?

It will have a label on it stating strictly not for use in outboard engines....in red writing , so no body will dare to use it.

[Tony Brooks]

I have an idea that some lakes/reservoirs might already have a banned all IC engines on boats. I think we had a question about earlier in the year.

[magnetman]

The theory about 2 stroke outboards being banned from use is something I have heard as well. 

 

I suspect it is a misunderstanding. 

 

A number of yars ago new 2 smoke outboards were banned in certain categories (small outboard motors) and available only for commercial use in larger sizes. This led to all the manufacturers producing or badging 4 stroke outboards. 

 

So in a way there has been a 'ban' on two strokes but it is not a ban on the use of existing units. 

 

 

 

I'm sure if two stroke outboards were disallowed on CRT and/or EA water it would be easily established by doing web searches as it would need to be pretty well publicised. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, PhilR said:

 

There is unlikely to be a shortage of 2 stroke oil in the foreseeable future. If there was how would people fuel their chainsaws and strimmers ?

 

And (probably) 1000's of boats on coastal waters with 2 stoke outboards.

[MtB]

A ban on two-strokes would see the end of all the remaining wonderful historic Bolinders, Kromhouts and Seffles on our waterways.

 

I suspect any ban would begin by stopping the manufacture of new two-strokes, as I think has happened in the bike market.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

If you are going that way, then many large ships engines and possibly railway locos and so on, where the power of opposed piston two-stroke diesels may be an asset. However, I am sure not so many of those use a total loss oil system like two-stroke outboards. I think blown two-stroke diesels are a very different beast to outboards, chain saws etc. 

 

Do Bolinders, Kromhouts and Seffles use total loss lubrication that causes the pollution? A blown two-stroke diesel should not pass unburned fuel into the exhaust, as petrol two strokes tend to do.

[Mad Harold]

1 hour ago, Bubblebuster said:

Can anybody clarify what the situation is regarding the use of two stroke outboard engines on our rivers and canals here in the UK as I'm going to be a lot more than miffed if on buying one I'm told err, sorry fella, not here you can't. 

Reading up on the web, two stroke outboards are not being sold for leisure use.

Commercial and sport use only.

You can of course buy them used on e bay, Facebook etc.

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

A ban on two-strokes would see the end of all the remaining wonderful historic Bolinders, Kromhouts and Seffles on our waterways.

 

I suspect any ban would begin by stopping the manufacture of new two-strokes, as I think has happened in the bike market.

 

 

I'd guess the ban, if it came to pass, would be on petrol two stoke outboards with total loss oiling systems which, by design, dump their lubricating oil into the water. The owners of historic semi-diesels would continue to be free to deposit their used oil on the boat roof and the face of the steerer.

 

MP.

[NB Alnwick]

Why would you want a IC powered outboard anyway - electricity is the way to go . . .

https://www.promarinestore.co.uk/epropulsion-spirit-10-plus-electric-outboard?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ppc-epropulsion-plus&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0IGnBhDUARIsAMwFDLm6cmKT1Hpf3vYRG7TeDXb4FvyqVYzxpw5ZSUOwuZAuhlXm1PHYiA8aAiPAEALw_wcB

 

No connection - just the bl****** obvious!

[springy]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Do Bolinders, Kromhouts and Seffles use total loss lubrication that causes the pollution?

 

Don't know about Kromhouts or Seffles, but a Bolinder has a drain cock on the crankcase, where most of the oil is collected and crankcase pressure blows it out into a catch pot, some will be burned but most (Straight 90 I was told, but I know others use lighter grades) will collect in the crank case.

It is important however to ensure that oil is being blown into the catch pot - if it collects in the crankcase it could easily lead to a runaway. Normal practice  AIUI is to run with the drain cock open all the while and accept the small loss of crankcase pressure. If working with an engine operator in attendance (these were true seagoing marine engines) they would run with the drain closed, but opened at regular intervals to clear the oil. I would suspect the Kromhouts and Seffles may well have a similar setup.

 

springy

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, MoominPapa said:

... petrol two stoke outboards with total loss oiling systems which, by design, dump their lubricating oil into the water. ....

 

 

MP.

 

 

Most of the lube oil in a two stroke outboard is burned with the petrol. 

 

yes some does escape into the water but it is not entirely accurate to say they dump their lubricating oil into the water. 

 

Some of it but not all. 

 

 

[Bubblebuster]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

No ban as far as I know. But the availability of 2 stroke mix may lead to their demise.

Back in the day, I used to mix it m'self for use in my 125cc James motorbike so...

Edited August 19, 2023 by Bubblebuster

[Dav and Pen]

My Dutch barge had a GM 2 stroke diesel which worked like a normal ic engine with oil contained in the sump.

[Bod]

Back in the day, I worked with motorcycles.  One customer had a 400cc Yamaha RD400, which had been run on Bel-Ray 2 stroke oil from new.

The baffles from the exhausts were a light fawn colour, bone dry, needless to say the performance was stunning for an otherwise standard machine.

All other 2 strokes had black oily cacked up exhausts, no matter if Castrol 2T or other makes of oil had been used.

 

Bod.

[bronskimac]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

A ban on two-strokes would see the end of all the remaining wonderful historic Bolinders, Kromhouts and Seffles on our waterways.

 

I suspect any ban would begin by stopping the manufacture of new two-strokes, as I think has happened in the bike market.

 

 

There is no ban on two-stroke bikes as such, but emissions standards for new builds have pretty much killed them off. There is at least one company working on a bike that can meet the standard, but who knows if they will succeed?

[BilgePump]

It was 2007 iirc that most two stroke engines for leisure use stopped being imported into the EU for sale. The rules didn't prevent the sale or use of new ones already imported or secondhand ones. All my little outboards are two strokes with the newest being a 2007 model. Some lakes etc do have a ban on petrol outboards in general (that's how I ended up with an electric outboard when I bought a boat that had been on one such body of water). However, that's a local environmental decision and rule rather than an actual law.