Mooring (Riperarian Rights)

[Woodylog]

Hi All

 

I am looking for some advice

 

I own a piece of land with riparian rights to the middle of the river, does this mean I can moor my boat alongside my bank.

I obviously need to pay river license, which I am aware of.

 

A heads up would be much appreciated

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

There maybe local regulations about obstructing navigation or the EA may have something to say about restricting flow, but basically what you say is more or less  true for most river navigations.

[GUMPY]

EA will need to approve any works you might do. 

Some/Most rivers are very unpleasant places to keep a boat in winter.

 

 

 

[Woodylog]

Yes the EA advice is that the boat is fine, but I would need to apply if I was going to install a pontoon or mooring

 

Thanks for the advice

[Woodylog]

I live on a canal boat at present but in a Marina, so thinking of the move over to my owned land (save the marina costs)

 

Negatives

 

More isolated etc 

[magnetman]

Interesting to note that on the Thames you need technically need EA approval for something as simple as inserting scaffold poles. Obviously people do it anyway but it could be problematic. 

 

There were quite a few mooring plots on the Medway (Unicumes lane) which were sold off and people did various different levels of development to their land. In the end the local councils served enforcement notices. I asked Nigel Moore (RIP), a very knowledgeable forum member in the subject of mooring rights, about this on one of the occasions I met him and he was of the view that yes you can moor but no structures. Also you may get busibodies getting interested if it looks 'residential'. 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by magnetman

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, Woodylog said:

I live on a canal boat at present but in a Marina, so thinking of the move over to my owned land (save the marina costs)

 

Negatives

 

More isolated etc 

 

Depending upon the river, I would suggest the danger to self and boat from floods and the debris they tend to wash down. If you have not thought about it, how will you stop the boat riding over the bank on a flood and the getting sat on the bank as the water goes down. Think about the dangers of wading ashore over rough ground you can't see with high current flow trying to knock you over.

 

I did see a pair of interesting contraptions on the Avon.  Two pairs of scaffold poles formed into a triangle and hinged at their inner end so they can rise and fall with the river.  The boat was moored between them so it was held clear of the bank and could rise and fall with the river level. All mounted on the land, so the navigation authority/EA held no sway.

[Stilllearning]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Depending upon the river, I would suggest the danger to self and boat from floods and the debris they tend to wash down. If you have not thought about it, how will you stop the boat riding over the bank on a flood and the getting sat on the bank as the water goes down. Think about the dangers of wading ashore over rough ground you can't see with high current flow trying to knock you over.

 

I did see a pair of interesting contraptions on the Avon.  Two pairs of scaffold poles formed into a triangle and hinged at their inner end so they can rise and fall with the river.  The boat was moored between them so it was held clear of the bank and could rise and fall with the river level. All mounted on the land, so the navigation authority/EA held no sway.

Upton on Severn.

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Depending upon the river, I would suggest the danger to self and boat from floods and the debris they tend to wash down. If you have not thought about it, how will you stop the boat riding over the bank on a flood and the getting sat on the bank as the water goes down. Think about the dangers of wading ashore over rough ground you can't see with high current flow trying to knock you over.

 

I did see a pair of interesting contraptions on the Avon.  Two pairs of scaffold poles formed into a triangle and hinged at their inner end so they can rise and fall with the river.  The boat was moored between them so it was held clear of the bank and could rise and fall with the river level. All mounted on the land, so the navigation authority/EA held no sway.

I have seen the same with a trailer coupling on the end and a tow ball bow and stern of the boat

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Woodylog said:

I live on a canal boat at present but in a Marina, so thinking of the move over to my owned land (save the marina costs)

 

Negatives

 

More isolated etc 

Which river?

The Nene, Soar, Avon can get very hairy in winter so I hope it's not one of them.

Have you got power/water etc on site?

 

[Tam & Di]

As you would be changing the use of the land planning consent might become involved.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Interesting to note that on the Thames you need technically need EA approval for something as simple as inserting scaffold poles.

 

The same on the River Witham

[Woodylog]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

Thanks for all the replies

 

It is the great River Ouse, we have lots of boats that are permanently moored along the banks so I assume no major issues.

The river obviously rises and falls albeit not to the extremes of other rivers as stated above

 

The EA are particular about anything being driven into the riverbed not the boat, I have to apply for a permit to install any poles etc into the riverbed.

 

I am considering a bank install solution; at low water level the boat is still able to sit close to the bank, so I am considering a landbased pontoon that will sit on the ground at a minimum point and then rise with the river on land based scaffold poles.

 

With regards to planning we have in excess of 50/100 liveaboard boats with their own land using the riperian rights law; it would seem a few cases Moore vs the British waterways being one, set a precedence for mooring against the land that you own (owning the land is critical) that a riperian owner is not committing a legal wrong, so therefore you are entitled to do so.

 

[magnetman]

(post above was not by me - the poster accidentally enclosed it in my quoted post)

 

Moore being Nigel Moore (RIP) who I mentioned in an earlier post. 

 

Sounds alright then and much nicer than a marina. 

[Woodylog]

Sorry hopefully posted by me now 😀

 

Thanks for all the replies

 

It is the great River Ouse, we have lots of boats that are permanently moored along the banks so I assume no major issues.

The river obviously rises and falls albeit not to the extremes of other rivers as stated above

 

The EA are particular about anything being driven into the riverbed not the boat, I have to apply for a permit to install any poles etc into the riverbed.

 

I am considering a bank install solution; at low water level the boat is still able to sit close to the bank, so I am considering a landbased pontoon that will sit on the ground at a minimum point and then rise with the river on land based scaffold poles.

 

With regards to planning we have in excess of 50/100 liveaboard boats with their own land using the riperian rights law; it would seem a few cases Moore vs the British waterways being one, set a precedence for mooring against the land that you own (owning the land is critical) that a riperian owner is not committing a legal wrong, so therefore you are entitled to do so.

[magnetman]

Not right beside the River but this little garden chalet floats

 

 

 

 

 

Something like that but without the shed on it could be quite a cool setup if done right. 

[MtB]

I suspect provided you live aboard peacefully and quietly without making a PITA of yourself to anyone at all locally, you'll be fine.

 

OTOH if you make a confounded nuisance of yourself, there are plenty of regulations that can be used to get rid of you. 

 

 

[blackrose]

Yes as you probably know, land ownership in itself does not confer any rights to live on the property unless of course you have planning permission. It's a separate issue to whether you can moor the boat alongside your land. In practice it's quite difficult for someone to prove that you're living aboard, especially if you take the boat out occasionally, but you should avoid getting into any situation where someone might want to complain to the council.

[john.k]

Its often not possible to satisfy those who complain to the authorities ...........so you should be sure of your rights ,before the council inspector comes .......because inspectors  very often make up the law as they see it ,and can cause a lot of costly trouble..

[Woodylog]

9 hours ago, magnetman said:

I agree that it could be difficult if a local takes an issue with the mooring of the vessel, unfortunately the council have no law that can move the boat from its position. They could in theory state it is not to be used for permanent occupancy albeit this would be pretty impossible to action as they could try to evict me LOL but could never evict the boat. So pretty minimal risk I assume 

 

[magnetman]

It is odd that your posts come up with my username. 

1 hour ago, Woodylog said:

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

It's easy to do. You press the "Quote" button then edit the contents of the quote box, instead of typing your reply underneath it. Like this. 

 

It's a bug in the forum software. It shouldn't be possible to edit the text of the post you're quoting, but it is. And it can be fun to abuse. Eventually they'll fix it I expect. 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by MtB

[jonathanA]

8 hours ago, blackrose said:

Yes as you probably know, land ownership in itself does not confer any rights to live on the property unless of course you have planning permission. It's a separate issue to whether you can moor the boat alongside your land. In practice it's quite difficult for someone to prove that you're living aboard, especially if you take the boat out occasionally, but you should avoid getting into any situation where someone might want to complain to the council.

I can only speak for CRT waters where you do not need planning permission to moor against land you own. Obviously you do need an agreement with crt e.g EOG mooring etc.

[blackrose]

7 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I can only speak for CRT waters where you do not need planning permission to moor against land you own. Obviously you do need an agreement with crt e.g EOG mooring etc.

 

I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say you needed planning permission to moor. Planning permission is only required to live on a moored boat as one's main residence irrespective of the waterways authority, although that is of course ignored in many cases.

Edited August 7, 2023 by blackrose

[John Brightley]

8 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say you needed planning permission to moor. Planning permission is only required to live on a moored boat as one's main residence irrespective of the waterways authority, although that is of course ignored in many cases.

Actually, planning permission may be needed to create a mooring, even if you are not living on the boat, as the planning authority may consider it a change of use, eg from agricultural to boat moorings. If it is a field which stays in agricultural use, it may be possible to argue that the mooring is incidental to the main use and therefore does not need consent.