Mooring (Riperarian Rights)

[jonathanA]

14 hours ago, John Brightley said:

Actually, planning permission may be needed to create a mooring, even if you are not living on the boat, as the planning authority may consider it a change of use, eg from agricultural to boat moorings. If it is a field which stays in agricultural use, it may be possible to argue that the mooring is incidental to the main use and therefore does not need consent.

CRT would (and do) argue that mooring/boats are incidental to the canal and therefore planning is not needed.  However once you start dealing with local planning departments then its very much open to the local officers interpretation.  Has anyone ever had a planning authority say 'no you don't need to apply to us for permission' when asked ?

 

what you would need planning permission for (potentially) is any 'engineering works' needed to create a mooring or any building work (might be covered by  permitted development  rights if your lucky).  The LPA would consult CRT about any canalside/mooring work and CRT would then want you to submit a works proposal (along with a little under £500 of readies)  and depending on what you are doing get a CRT permit to do the work, if its affects the canal bank/is close to the canal.   

 

Again the problem is the Local planning officers definition of engineering works... could be a digging out for a marina at one extreme or simply (in my case) wanting to open a trench to lay electric cables (on my land ) which the LPA said was 'engineering works'   I'm sure the fact that most local authorities now charge for even advising on planning applications doesn't influence their decision process in the slightest... 

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

or simply (in my case) wanting to open a trench to lay electric cables (on my land ) which the LPA said was 'engineering works' 

Why did you ask them for such a trivial (in engineering terms) job?

[dmr]

30 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

CRT would (and do) argue that mooring/boats are incidental to the canal and therefore planning is not needed.  However once you start dealing with local planning departments then its very much open to the local officers interpretation.  Has anyone ever had a planning authority say 'no you don't need to apply to us for permission' when asked ?

 

what you would need planning permission for (potentially) is any 'engineering works' needed to create a mooring or any building work (might be covered by  permitted development  rights if your lucky).  The LPA would consult CRT about any canalside/mooring work and CRT would then want you to submit a works proposal (along with a little under £500 of readies)  and depending on what you are doing get a CRT permit to do the work, if its affects the canal bank/is close to the canal.   

 

Again the problem is the Local planning officers definition of engineering works... could be a digging out for a marina at one extreme or simply (in my case) wanting to open a trench to lay electric cables (on my land ) which the LPA said was 'engineering works'   I'm sure the fact that most local authorities now charge for even advising on planning applications doesn't influence their decision process in the slightest... 

 

Each planning authority has its own rules and interpretations so nothing is certain.

The CRT "incidental" argument is really just quoting a planning appeal decision on the K&A (some serious Googling will find it). It applied to the K&A but its probably reasonable that it would apply to other waterways, though there is some potential for a planning authority to claim it does not apply to them.

When I applied for a mooring the planners said it was a change of use and would need pp. They were not aware of the K&A appeal so when I sent them a copy they suggested that to be safe I should apply for an LDC (a lawful development certificate or formal statement that pp is not required). There were some complications but this was eventually granted.

 

The mooring infrastructure itself might need pp and there is no clear guidance on this, a garden deck exemption is the closest that I could find but that's a bit tenuous. There is some obscure rule that mooring/wharfs do not need pp but I am not sure that all authorities would apply this to all inland waterways.

 

To be safe a LDC would be a good idea, these cost half of what pp costs and are based on a legal/technical interpretation of the law, the neighbours are not allowed to complain or have any influence on this decision 😀

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Why did you ask them for such a trivial (in engineering terms) job?

I didn't it was actually part of a wider scheme and as the planners were objecting to some elements of the wider scheme I asked if the cabling works on there own would require consent and they advised they thought it would.  Fortunately this was part of the (paid for) pre application advice process I went through and as the wider scheme didn't go ahead its a none issue.  Although having amended the proposal the planners indicated they would support an application if we submitted one, (which we didn't for reasons unconnected to planning ).   

 

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

 

To be safe a LDC would be a good idea, these cost half of what pp costs and are based on a legal/technical interpretation of the law, the neighbours are not allowed to complain or have any influence on this decision 😀

yes I considered the LDC route, but in the particular circumstances it was actually cheaper to pay for pre-application advice from the planning department and if you apply for an LDC and its refused you still have to pay for the subsequent PP.