Kegworth Deep Lock sinking

[Ray T]

14 hours ago, dave moore said:

I can shed  light on this. Titan was commissioned by Dr Ian Thompson, a local canal enthusiast since the 60s. It was his 3rd boat, Malcom Braine built his first, Temeraire, then in the 90s Norton Canes built a motorised butty, Tenacious, we called it the “ mutty “ at NC. Titan was built by next door builders, CTS, the intention being to base the boat in Ireland, sadly health issues put paid to that plan and the boat stayed in the Midlands. Ian lived at Hinksford on the S&W and was heavily involved with the RN diesel engine company, hence the Trad Engine Specialists on the cabin sides. My work was on all 3 boats. Ian was a fine fellow and I mourn his passing some years ago. Family wheeled him out to the wharf shortly before his death to listen to the engines he loved so much. All 3 boats were sold later. Poor Titan.

 

At Hinksford Wharf when owned by Dr. Thompson, August 2013.

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Ray T

[haggis]

The boat is being raised this morning

 

[MrsM]

9 hours ago, Barneyp said:

Yes, when the boat is refloated any  water left in the boat will wet the entire length of the boat.

Refloating is often not as simple as just refilling the lock, depending on the exact situation this can lead to more water going into the boat, so it maybe that some or all of the water is pumped out before or during the refloating.

Thanks for the information. In the panic of the moment I'm not confident I would know what to do.

9 hours ago, dmr said:

Accidents happen, no matter how good or experienced you are the locks and circumstances just sometimes throw something unexpected at you. We had a potential sinking in a lock last week, another boater helping us spotted it and our emerency plans mostly worked, just a few litres of water into the boat, we are good and experienced, but also we had a bit of luck. 

Could you talk through the steps you took? I'm not confident I would know how to react in the panic of the moment. Really glad you got through it relatively ok. 

[Bee]

We've been through hundreds of locks with no problem so can be quite smug about our skills BUT three or four times we have been unlucky. Once we were hung up - tied the boat loosely to a bollard to stop it being blown across a full lock then let the water out, guess what happened. Once on a filling lock the boat caught on something sticking out of the lock side and once sharing a lock the pair of us got jammed as the lock emptied, the lock sides tapered towards the bottom. And then there was the time I was descending a lock backwards and got the fore end on the cill. Any one of those events could have been much worse. Oh and that time in the p****** rain the windlass slipped out of my hands and didn't half clout my wrist. There is always some way or other to fall foul of a something waiting to bite you.

[dmr]

26 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Thanks for the information. In the panic of the moment I'm not confident I would know what to do.

Could you talk through the steps you took? I'm not confident I would know how to react in the panic of the moment. Really glad you got through it relatively ok. 

 

Every accident is different and probably unexpected. Ours was filling the well deck from a leaky top gate rather  than a cilling, and like all the best accidents was a combination of many small factors. Very low water made entry into the lock difficult and this disrupted our usual routine. I had some clutter in the well deck from ongoing maintanance and some of this blocked one of the scuppers etc etc.  Assuming you are not single handed then a good agreed set of hand signals is probably the most important thing. We have a good signal for move the boat backwards, but did not have a proper signal for "this is really urgent".  We have a big collection of old towels in the boat (called boat towels but also used for dog things) and stored in a known accessible place and these really help to reduce flow into the boat (if deployed quickly) and assist in containing and cleaning up any water that gets in. Obviously only go into the boat if there is no danger of imminent sinking.

[LadyG]

47 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Thanks for the information. In the panic of the moment I'm not confident I would know what to do.

Could you talk through the steps you took? I'm not confident I would know how to react in the panic of the moment. Really glad you got through it relatively ok. 

I have built up my confidence over four years on narrowboating.

Having a lot of experience in yachts my rope handling is pretty good. So I would say that is something you need to practice till it becomes automatic to have your ropes tidy and without knots. Just coil them up every time, starting from the tied end and coiling clockwise to the end. When you are on the hard and the boat is moving away from you, take one turn round a convenient bollard rather than trying to haul the boat with your own body strength. Keep that rope fairly taught as it must not jamb on itself. Keep a knife in your pocket.

When locking, I have in mind the levels of the water, imagining two tanks of water at different levels, what is now going to happen to those levels. Do all the procedures slowly, don't have the boat thrashing about.

 

I know that going down I must keep the boat forward of the cill, I singlehand, and I have my ( long ) centreline just half round  a bollard forward of the centrepoint, so that I can see if the boat is moving backwards, ie towards the cill because the rope tail moves, I can then go to the bollard and stop this backward movement. I try to keep the stern in the centre using a stout pole if necessary.

Going up, there is a possibility, rare possiblity, that there is stone sticking out of the wall of a very narrow lock which the boat could catch on. The helmsman should see this. The other thing going up is that the bow could rise up under a walkway,, therefore you need to keep the boat back from the walkway, or in the centre if the walkway has a gap in the middle.

Most people who work locks together have a familiar routine, generally thumbs up from the paddle operator to the helm. However, if the helm has to get off the boat to assist the shore party, he should take his centreline with him, so that the boat is under control.

I have a trad stern, and once had the boat overtaking me as I walked up to a lock. I now close the back doors and check throttle not engaged before I leave the boat.

Now you would say, this is all about singlehanding, and indeed it is, however it is also about keeping the boat under control. When I am transiting a lock which is almost the same length as the boat occasionally I may have to ask for assistance from a passerby, as I can't be on the boat and on the lock side at the same time, but I now carry both a windlass and a boathook with me if I think I will have to move the boat within the lock.

I noticed a couple of newbies lowering their boat while moored to the lock the other day! I had my knife handy, but fortunately they realised, and were able to untie before the boat hung up, they did this before closing the paddles, which was understandable, fortunately everything happened quite slowly, so panic avoided.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by LadyG

[haggis]

41 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Thanks for the information. In the panic of the moment I'm not confident I would know what to do.

Could you talk through the steps you took? I'm not confident I would know how to react in the panic of the moment. Really glad you got through it relatively ok. 

In most situations where there is a problem in a lock, dropping all open paddles as fast as you can is the first priority.  For this reason and because I don't cross lock gates quickly, I tend to only open paddles on the side the boat is on. With all paddles closed hopefully the situation will not get worse and you have time to work out the next move.

[MrsM]

Thank you all. So paddles dropped and all safely off the boat. In the case of a sinking/cilling I presume the next step is to phone CRT? Then what? 

[LadyG]

25 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Thank you all. So paddles dropped and all safely off the boat. In the case of a sinking/cilling I presume the next step is to phone CRT? Then what? 

You are thinking of worse case scenario, in which extremely unlikely situation there is an emergency CRT number who will come to your rescue 24/7. The phone will be answered quickly and the person will be experienced CRT employee. 

Its very unlikely the worse will happen if you take everything very slowly, and I am sure you are learning a little bit every day, just relax!

Remember that ordinary people hire boats every day, and manage fine. 

You don't need to rush, in four years of boating I have only had two  moments of surprise: I  "arrived" at a river lock much earlier than anticipated (forgetting about speed over the ground),  I gunned the thing in to the lock gate, not elegant, but I'm sure there have been worse arrivals!

Edited June 11, 2023 by LadyG

[Mike Tee]

Unfortunately bad things that happen on a boat normally happen quickly, and often (literally) sneak up behind you. We were going down Foxton flight a couple of months ago and had just left the halfway point and were dropping in the first of the second five. I was paying particular attention to the stern because in a 70' boat it pretty much fills up the length of the lock. A boat following me down was a bit quick on the paddles and the passing point overflowed into the lock we were in - I managed to get the back doors shut quick and the water only cascaded onto the counter, but a lot of it found its way into the weedhatch area through the lift up panel and filled up the stern gland area.

Luckily no major disaster but I spent the evening head down and arse up clearing it out that evening. But that could have allowed a lot of water in through the back doors if I had not been aware of the problem. It was also one of the few times I've seen a lockie running flat out to get up to the cause of the problem and stop it!

[Rob-M]

41 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Thank you all. So paddles dropped and all safely off the boat. In the case of a sinking/cilling I presume the next step is to phone CRT? Then what? 

This may not be as easy as it sounds as it can be very difficult to drop a paddle and should be something you practice to understand whether a paddle can be easily wound down in a filling and emptying lock.  I've called to my wife to drop a paddle in a filling wide lock and she couldn't move it.

 

Many years ago my parents boat got caught on a brick in a filling narrow lock, as my dad tried to drop the paddles quickly the windlass slipped off and smashed into his face which added to the problems as he needed to go to hospital from his facial injury but he managed to drop the paddles enough with the other paddles opened the lock started emptying but fortunately there were three of us lockside.

[haggis]

1 hour ago, MrsM said:

Thank you all. So paddles dropped and all safely off the boat. In the case of a sinking/cilling I presume the next step is to phone CRT? Then what? 

What you do next depends on the situation. If the boat is sitting at an angle but no water has penetrated, slowly open the top paddles to let more water into the lock  and refloat the boat. However, if the bows have been down far enough for water to get in (as it had in this case) letting more water into the lock will make the situation worse and will increase the water in the boat. That water needs to be pumped out before any attempt is made to refloat the boat. As I said, with all paddles closed you have time to work out what to do next. 

If you can't refloat the boat and it is stuck in the lock, you need to call the C&RT emergency number and they arrange the refloating , probably by River Canal Rescue, at your expense, I assume. Although this might be covered if you are a RCR member. I don't know. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

This may not be as easy as it sounds as it can be very difficult to drop a paddle and should be something you practice to understand whether a paddle can be easily wound down in a filling and emptying lock.  I've called to my wife to drop a paddle in a filling wide lock and she couldn't move it.

 

So many people think if you lift the pawl and take the windless off the paddle will fall, It wont, you will need to wind it down and it could be as hard as winding it up.

2 hours ago, haggis said:

The boat is being raised this morning

 

Its up

Afloat and now out of the lock 

[Tacet]

2 hours ago, MrsM said:

Thank you all. So paddles dropped and all safely off the boat. In the case of a sinking/cilling I presume the next step is to phone CRT? Then what? 

Next step would be too ensure no one is aboard.  There is a horrible situation where the stern slips off the cill and the whole boat sinks deep into the lock.

[Naughty Cal]

14 hours ago, Rob-M said:

That's why I always take the centre line with me if going to assist and put a couple of turns round the gate beam or a bollard.

Would have to be a very long rope for that lock!

 

Kegworth Deep was one of only two locks I could never work. The other being Linton Lock on the Ouse. Liam had to work those while I stayed on the boat.

[Rob-M]

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Would have to be a very long rope for that lock!

 

Kegworth Deep was one of only two locks I could never work. The other being Linton Lock on the Ouse. Liam had to work those while I stayed on the boat.

Having been through the lock a number of times I don't recall any issues, maybe I've never needed to get off after opening the initial paddle and getting back on.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Next step would be too ensure no one is aboard. 

 

Which of course is why it is a better policy to have no-one on board boats transiting locks. 

 

 

[MrsM]

21 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You are thinking of worse case scenario, in which extremely unlikely situation there is an emergency CRT number who will come to your rescue 24/7. The phone will be answered quickly and the person will be experienced CRT employee. 

Its very unlikely the worse will happen if you take everything very slowly, and I am sure you are learning a little bit every day, just relax!

Remember that ordinary people hire boats every day, and manage fine. 

You don't need to rush, in four years of boating I have only had two  moments of surprise: I  "arrived" at a river lock much earlier than anticipated (forgetting about speed over the ground),  I gunned the thing in to the lock gate, not elegant, but I'm sure there have been worse arrivals!

Really good points but it's the worst case scenario I think I would be weakest at and, being a good former scout leader, I'd like to be prepared. In a case similar to the subject boat, with the bow immersed in a deep leaky lock would you lift the bottom paddles to prevent the lock filling? 

[Tacet]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Which of course is why it is a better policy to have no-one on board boats transiting locks. 

 

 

Well, yes but by no means is it universal practice and I wouldn't go so far as to say it is an inappropriate risk, in all circumstances.  

It is sensible to weigh the various dangers, of course.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Well, yes but by no means is it universal practice and I wouldn't go so far as to say it is an inappropriate risk, in all circumstances.  

It is sensible to weigh the various dangers, of course.

 

There is nothing like being present at an incident were someone dies to modify ones 'weighing of the various dangers', in my personal expereince. 

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

So many people think if you lift the pawl and take the windless off the paddle will fall, It wont, you will need to wind it down and it could be as hard as winding it up.

Which is why the tabs CRT fit to lock gear to stop the pawl being flipped over into a stable disengaged position annoy me so much. They're safety sops to users who can't be bothered to ensure the pawl is down before winding the paddle up, but cause a much bigger but less obvious safety problem when someone needs two hands to wind a paddle down NOW against water pressure to save a boat.

 

MP.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, MoominPapa said:

Which is why the tabs CRT fit to lock gear to stop the pawl being flipped over into a stable disengaged position annoy me so much. They're safety sops to users who can't be bothered to ensure the pawl is down before winding the paddle up, but cause a much bigger but less obvious safety problem when someone needs two hands to wind a paddle down NOW against water pressure to save a boat.

 

MP.

A battery angle grinder soon solves this issue I’ve found. After representations by the Navigation Advisory Group there shouldn’t be any new ones of these fitted. 

[dmr]

54 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Which of course is why it is a better policy to have no-one on board boats transiting locks. 

 

 

 

but then you have to use ropes  which is another whole set of potential problems. No ropes and controlling the boat part with the engine and part with the flow from the paddles is our preferred method. Also getting off the boat requires climbing a wet slippery ladder.

[Tacet]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

There is nothing like being present at an incident were someone dies to modify ones 'weighing of the various dangers', in my personal expereince. 

That's true.  Putting passengers ashore, having them clutter up the lockside and then recovering them to the boat is not risk-free

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

but then you have to use ropes  which is another whole set of potential problems. No ropes and controlling the boat part with the engine and part with the flow from the paddles is our preferred method. Also getting off the boat requires climbing a wet slippery ladder.

MtB is heading for the upper Thames, I think, where he will be expected to have all crew on board and hold the boat with ropes.  Hopefully he will survive.

[MtB]

Just now, Tacet said:

That's true.  Putting passengers ashore, having them clutter up the lockside and then recovering them to the boat is not risk-free

 

True. 

 

And there is nothing like a whole bunch of people lockside for distracting a boater from paying attention to their boat in the lock.

 

I've nearly lost my boat in a lock twice now. First time I was being distracted by a guest of my own bankside and chattering to me whilst filling the lock. I only noticed the bow fender caught in the gate when the chain snapped. The height of the wet water mark on the hull showed how close the boat had been to getting swamped. The second time was similar. A pair of random boaters whacked open the top paddles before I signalled was ready and just walked off. Again, bow fender caught the gate and I was stuck at the tiller with the boat in full astern. Fortunately the (old) fender ripped and released the boat.

 

Since then, I get off the boat at locks. A different matter if you have crew on the bank with the interests of your boat in their minds.