Best Stern for Single Handed

[Lily Rose]

 

I haven't got a photo with the tiller in place but this one does show the shape of the stern. Without seeing Still Waters and Lily Rose side by side it's hard to tell if I have more room outside the back doors. 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

10 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

As has been stated above, interior space is a major factor, especially for a full time liveaboard.

I feel that a cruiser stern would always be my personal favourite for a boat of say 55ft or more, because of the extra floor space for people and dogs to stand, sit, socialise etc. 

But on a boat of 50ft or less, it does become more of a close call. That stern, much as I love the space, does take up some interior space that could be really really useful. 

I guess the answer is to separate out the two factors of stern type and interior space (assuming your budget will stretch to a longer boat).

They are not co-dependent criteria at the point when you are buying your boat. In other words, you choose a boat big enough that it has the interior space you'll need, and you also make sure it has the stern type you prefer. 

Admittedly, a trad stern will allow some extra 'contingency' space in case you ever need it, and it seems like you can never get enough interior space on a narrowboat- so there is that. 

 

But as a full time liveaboard you'll probably be using a bike (either to reach your car, or as your full time transport), so the stern/boat choice might have to factor in a location to store the bike. The cratch might be ok, as long as there is something to attach a chain to, but the cratch does tend to get full of gubbins in its role as exterior store room/shed/garage, and maybe a place to put spare toilet cassettes, bags of household rubbish, broken stuff etc, until you reach a facilities point. Not to mention the bodies of the odd duck that you've savagely murdered (and don't try to tell me I'm the only one who savagely murders ducks on a weekly basis). 

 

I even had a broken bike plonked in my cratch for two weeks on the bridgewater, which was a right pain.

And when you're using a bike on an almost daily basis, its very handy to just chain it to the stern rail, as opposed to lifting it into the cratch (especially if its a 25kg ebike).

But again, it all depends how (and how often) you use a bike.

And how many ducks you kill.

 

Re getting onto the roof, you need to do that anyway, regardless of how you do locks. Sometimes you'll need to clean the roof, or the solar panels (which as a full time liveaboard you will definitely want). Or just to rearrange the half dozen bags of coal that might be up there during winter. 

I fitted a fold-up trucker's step on the rear cabin wall above the stern locker, and getting on and off the roof is easy using that. So for me, the semi trad having those seats is not a major advantage for getting onto the roof. 

 

So a lot depends on your personal preferences and lifestyle approach, but I imagine a single person would usually have enough interior space on a 58-60ft boat, even if the boat has a space-eating cruiser stern. And it'll still be short enough to cruise most of the system, if that is your aim.

 

This is very much a personal viewpoint, but I don't really put much weight in the advantage of the trad setup keeping your legs warmer when cruising in the winter.

If the cruiser stern suits you for other more important reasons, its the one to go for. Just wear thermal leggings under your trousers, and get a pair of fur-lined wellies. Or eat more lard and get fatter legs - there are options. 

As a liveaboard CCer, you'll probably have more flexibility to choose what days you cruise on, so you tend to avoid cruising on the days when its chucking down with rain or very windy. I cruised on the coldest days of the last two winters, when the previous night had lows of minus 9 degrees and the daytime temps never got above freezing- and it never changed my mind about wanting a cruiser stern. But I am a northerner, and its illegal up here to complain about the cold.   

 

(Disclaimer- no ducks were harmed in the making of this post. Any references to duck murder were entirely fictional and for entertainment purposes. And there are almost definitely no dead ducks in my cratch) 

 

 

Good post Tony, I am on my second cruiser stern, however if I ever went back to a narrowboat it would be a 72 foot trade with engine room! Of course it would be electric and the engine room would be the battery and generator room along with washing machine etc

[blackrose]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Good post Tony, I am on my second cruiser stern, however if I ever went back to a narrowboat it would be a 72 foot trade with engine room! Of course it would be electric and the engine room would be the battery and generator room along with washing machine etc

 

Some brokers will take customers boats as trade ins on the ones they're selling. 😋

[Paul C]

Just on the 'advantage' of a trad stern being better weather protection - if it is raining, and you need to keep the doors/hatch open to steer, doesn't that mean you end up soaking the interior of the boat (the bit of interior, just within the doors), including any items there and under the steps, eg maybe electrics if they're poorly sited. And your top half still gets a good soaking, so you'd need a decent coat. On a semi or a cruiser, you'd close the doors, with the advantage that any crew could actually go inside too, leaving just one to get wet. And on a semi, it STILL offers weather protection from winds etc with the sides.

 

Obvs we are talking about a boat with no pram cover. I've never seen one with, being successfully driven in the rain.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Just on the 'advantage' of a trad stern being better weather protection - if it is raining, and you need to keep the doors/hatch open to steer, doesn't that mean you end up soaking the interior of the boat (the bit of interior, just within the doors), including any items there and under the steps, eg maybe electrics if they're poorly sited. And your top half still gets a good soaking, so you'd need a decent coat. On a semi or a cruiser, you'd close the doors, with the advantage that any crew could actually go inside too, leaving just one to get wet. And on a semi, it STILL offers weather protection from winds etc with the sides.

 

Obvs we are talking about a boat with no pram cover. I've never seen one with, being successfully driven in the rain.

Surely it’s the crew’s turn to steer when it rains?

That’s the advantage of having crew. 

 

 

[haggis]

If steering a trad stern in wet weather, you stand on the step and close the back doors behind you - the tiller is higher than the doors so you can still steer. You then pull the hatch towards you . Our bottom half is in the dry and you have a good waterproof on your top half. You get the heat from the engine to keep your bottom half warm.

[nb Innisfree]

9 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Obvs we are talking about a boat with no pram cover. I've never seen one with, being successfully driven in the rain.

Innisfree, pram hood dropped & raised in a few seconds, my design and ideal. 

[Captain Pegg]

24 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Innisfree, pram hood dropped & raised in a few seconds, my design and ideal. 

 

Does it have a glass screen and windscreen wipers?

 

I once tried to steer a boat in heavy rain with the pram hood up and I couldn't see sufficently well due to the dropelts of water retained on the less than smooth plastic screen which distorted vision even when dry.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Does it have a glass screen and windscreen wipers?

 

I once tried to steer a boat in heavy rain with the pram hood up and I couldn't see sufficently well due to the dropelts of water retained on the less than smooth plastic screen which distorted vision even when dry.

 

Some pram hoods have roll up front sections.

 

 

[nb Innisfree]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Does it have a glass screen and windscreen wipers?

 

I once tried to steer a boat in heavy rain with the pram hood up and I couldn't see sufficently well due to the dropelts of water retained on the less than smooth plastic screen which distorted vision even when dry.

Forward angled plastic screen, top half of which can be folded down, better than roll up which obscures eye line of sight. 

[Silent Flight]

@nb InnisfreeSounds similar to the pram hood I’m getting designed except the front screen is strataglass on mine. 

 

@Rocket Rob IMO which is probably biased get ya self a Dutch style barge NB

[Francis Herne]

4 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

( I'm aware there's a few photos of mine taken this past weekend now on social media where it's being steered correctly but I'm cleaning the cabin sides from the gunwales while underway ).

Not much risk of you being wiped off the side at the (lack of) speed everyone was doing, although I did have a try at it... 🙂

Edited May 22, 2023 by Francis Herne

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

Not much risk of you being wiped off the side at the (lack of) speed everyone was doing, although I did have a try at it... 🙂

 

I'd have just stood on the bottom and swept the gunwales.

[Paul C]

8 hours ago, haggis said:

If steering a trad stern in wet weather, you stand on the step and close the back doors behind you - the tiller is higher than the doors so you can still steer. You then pull the hatch towards you . Our bottom half is in the dry and you have a good waterproof on your top half. You get the heat from the engine to keep your bottom half warm.

I know but......unless your torso is rectangular in profile, there will be gaps and the rain will get into the boat and soak the steps (and other stuff), right?

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

I know but......unless your torso is rectangular in profile, there will be gaps and the rain will get into the boat and soak the steps (and other stuff), right?

Some water gets inside, mostly by dripping off your coat but it’s not a significant problem. Unless it absolutely hammers down in which case you’re likely to stop no matter what type of boat you’re steering. It works fine for that sort of miserable persistent rain we tend to get in this country.

[Rob-M]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

I know but......unless your torso is rectangular in profile, there will be gaps and the rain will get into the boat and soak the steps (and other stuff), right?

That's what towpath talk is for, you fold your copy up, put it on the steerer step and stand on it to soak the rain water up.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Some water gets inside, mostly by dripping off your coat but it’s not a significant problem. Unless it absolutely hammers down in which case you’re likely to stop no matter what type of boat you’re steering. It works fine for that sort of miserable persistent rain we tend to get in this country.

True, but sometimes you just need to carry on regardless of the bad weather -- less so if you're a liveaboard, but it still happens sometimes if you need to get somewhere -- for example, for an Xmas meetup, twice in my case -- and then the rain gets in. It's one of the disadvantages of a trad stern, all types have them as well as advantages... 😉

Edited May 23, 2023 by IanD

[haggis]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

True, but sometimes you just need to carry on regardless of the bad weather -- less so if you're a liveaboard, but it still happens sometimes if you need to get somewhere, and then the rain gets in. It's one of the disadvantages of a trad stern, all types have them as well as advantages... 😉

Not much rain gets in and any which does quickly evaporates. I don't see this as a disadvantage of a trad stern but a huge advantage! 

[Martin Nicholas]

A golf umbrella will fix the rain getting into a traditional stern and it can be lowered under bridges.

The enemy of more open designs is the cold.

 

CC'ing means that you almost never have to move in bad weather. Just watch the forecast and the rainfall radar; dodge the showers.

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

A golf umbrella will fix the rain getting into a traditional stern and it can be lowered under bridges.

The enemy of more open designs is the cold.

 

CC'ing means that you almost never have to move in bad weather. Just watch the forecast and the rainfall radar; dodge the showers.

 

Never mind a golf umbrella, I just close the trad doors behind me, pull the slide hatch up close and hold a normal-sized umbrella in heavy rain.

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

16 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

A golf umbrella will fix the rain getting into a traditional stern and it can be lowered under bridges.

The enemy of more open designs is the cold.

 

CC'ing means that you almost never have to move in bad weather. Just watch the forecast and the rainfall radar; dodge the showers.

Agreed on cold, but it is also a consequence of getting wet.

 

I’ll pass on the umbrella. I’m not Steve Maclaren.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Not much rain gets in and any which does quickly evaporates. I don't see this as a disadvantage of a trad stern but a huge advantage! 

You know when people accuse certain posters of being such fans of something -- like EVs -- that they refuse to acknowledge that they have *any* downsides?

 

That's what the trad stern fans on here are coming over as... 😉

[haggis]

13 minutes ago, IanD said:

You know when people accuse certain posters of being such fans of something -- like EVs -- that they refuse to acknowledge that they have *any* downsides?

 

That's what the trad stern fans on here are coming over as... 😉

No, no. The reason for the discussion on this thread is because the OP wanted information. It is therefore important that incorrect and misleading information should be corrected. I don't think anyone is saying that any stern layout doesn't have problems but some of us are fire fighting against the incorrect information being posted by you. This is not about point scoring, Ian, it is about trying to be helpful .

[Paul C]

The other issue I saw with trad sterns is the rear engine type have a big hump where the engine is, making access dwarf-like. The mid engine type have ‘normal’ access into the BMC, but then the engine room is about 8’, whether this is an advantage (because it’s like a little shed, or utility room etc) or just a disadvantage and waste of living room space depends on your use case.

 

Its not to say I’m anti-trad. I think for liveaboard single person, it’s pretty good. ALL design decisions on a narrowboat are a compromise of some kind or other anyway. 
 

Also a lot depends on the hatch size - some older boats seem to have tiny hatches and particularly steep steps. A trad with an enormous full width hatch is approaching a semi trad for usefulness, but with trad advantages (like engine access) which is terrible in a semi.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Paul C

[cuthound]

Just now, IanD said:

You know when people accuse certain posters of being such fans of something -- like EVs -- that they refuse to acknowledge that they have *any* downsides?

 

That's what the trad stern fans on here are coming over as... 😉

 

I have tried all stern types except the new fangled "Semi -Cruisers" over the years, and have developed a preference for trads, not because they don't have any disadvantages, but because they have fewer disadvantages for me and my family than the other types.

 

The biggest disadvantage is lack of space for more than one person on the stern, but if you can get a trad with an oversized hatch, then that goes a long way to solving that issue.

 

The biggest advantage is weather protection, followed by the security of being able to close the stern doors whilst underway, keeping dogs and small children safely inside the confines of the boat.