Towing

[PCSB]

This is just out of curiosity rather than any immediate need.

 

Yesterday a narrowboat passed us towing another, not a motor and butty just two "standard" NBs. The broken one had a knackered diesel pump I believe. The towing boat was using what looked like the bow line from the other boat so the distance between them was approx 25 ft.

 

I have twice been involved with tows at sea and in those cases we used a very long (and strong) tow line, approx 200 ft or so from memory. When I've seen butty's being towed they either have a longer line with the butty "offest", i.e. out of the immediate prop wash or are lashed tight to the stern of the motor. Given that a butty has a very large rudder (is this called an ellen??) they do have good stearage, a standard NB being towed I would suspect doesn't, though will have some. Is this wrong?

 

Given this was on a decently wide canal with wide locks I would have though breasted up would be a better way to do the tow perhaps? If on a narrow canal would it be better to lash the towed boat tight to the stern of the towing boat? I think this is what I would do if I had to tow for any length of time.

 

Hopefully we will never need to be towed. It just got me thinking about it

 

 

[BEngo]

The best way to tow is on a long line, but this is only practicable if the towed boat has a big enough rudder to steer and getting the tow into wide locks can be a faff if it is not heavy enough to coast in.

  The next best way is to put the tow close up on crossed straps.  Then the towed boat does not need to steer.  Getting into wide locks can be a faff.

 

The slowest way to tow  is to breast up., but this gives the most precise control.   Not practicable on much of the GU these days as there is not enough water to pass a wide beam in many/most places.  Handy in lock flights though, where there is usually enough room to pass another breasted pair.  Can terrify the  inexperienced coming the other way.

 

The boaters would have a loaded butty on  a more or less long line, using the shorter snatcher in bendy bits and lock flights,  with the long snubber used on long pounds.  An empty butty would be  on cross straps, with, late on in the carrying days, some boaters preferring to breast up in heavy locking.

 

N

[Alan de Enfield]

Two of us towed a broken down NB on the River Trent from Cromwell weir to Kings marina.

 

The 'other boat' elected to use a 'long tow' and it was a bit of a disaster, as the rounded into Nether lock cut the towing boat steered into the cut and kept going, whilst the boat being towed 'cut the corner' and did a full speed (5mph) T-bone into the cut wall as the line took the 'shortes route'.It was a hell of a bang and much of the 'stuff' inside the boat was thrown about and smashed and we reckon the boat became several inches shorter.

 

Whilst inside the lock the 'tow-boat' released the broken down boat & I came alongside and breasted up (lashed alongside) and we carried on into the marina very nicely - there was even 2 adjacent moorings (between two pontoon fingers and we had such control that we were able to make a 90 degree turn and drive straight into the moorings without touching the pontoons.

 

But - you are correct, for towing on the sea and to minimise snatch from wave action the ideal tow length is around 100 yards.

 

 

[PCSB]

3 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The best way to tow is on a long line, but this is only practicable if the towed boat has a big enough rudder to steer and getting the tow into wide locks can be a faff if it is not heavy enough to coast in.

  The next best way is to put the tow close up on crossed straps.  Then the towed boat does not need to steer.  Getting into wide locks can be a faff.

 

The slowest way to tow  is to breast up., but this gives the most precise control.   Not practicable on much of the GU these days as there is not enough water to pass a wide beam in many/most places.  Handy in lock flights though, where there is usually enough room to pass another breasted pair.  Can terrify the  inexperienced coming the other way.

 

The boaters would have a loaded butty on  a more or less long line, using the shorter snatcher in bendy bits and lock flights,  with the long snubber used on long pounds.  An empty butty would be  on cross straps, with, late on in the carrying days, some boaters preferring to breast up in heavy locking.

 

N

The long line approach is how I've done it at sea. The curiosity is more around towing a normally powered narrowboat so it will have a smaller rudder. 

 

It is good to watch a working boat with butty in tow. We had an enjoyable hour or so chatting with Richard and Ruth from Chamberlain's and helping them through Hurleston locks. 

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Two of us towed a broken down NB on the River Trent from Cromwell weir to Kings marina.

 

The 'other boat' elected to use a 'long tow' and it was a bit of a disaster, as the rounded into Nether lock cut the towing boat steered into the cut and kept going, whilst the boat being towed 'cut the corner' and did a full speed (5mph) T-bone into the cut wall as the line took the 'shortes route'.It was a hell of a bang and much of the 'stuff' inside the boat was thrown about and smashed and we reckon the boat became several inches shorter.

 

Whilst inside the lock the 'tow-boat' released the broken down boat & I came alongside and breasted up (lashed alongside) and we carried on into the marina very nicely - there was even 2 adjacent moorings (between two pontoon fingers and we had such control that we were able to make a 90 degree turn and drive straight into the moorings without touching the pontoons.

 

But - you are correct, for towing on the sea and to minimise snatch from wave action the ideal tow length is around 100 yards.

 

 

I think if I ever have to tow I will do so slowly! Hopefully fast enough to have good control  Watching them yesterday made me think about this as they did seem to be struggling a bit. The good thing though was one boater helping out another.

[alan_fincher]

Towing a boat such that it is virtually sitting with it's bow on the stern fender of the towing boat is done using a pair of Cross Straps.  These are routed around the stem post of the towed boat and each crossing to the dolly on the motor on the opposite side.

 

Done correctly there is little need for a steerer on the towed boat - usually the towing boats steerer can sufficiently influence the path to be taken by the boat that is in tow.

 

However towing on Cross Straps requires that the back of the towing boat is low in the water and the bow of the towed boat is sitting high.  In this way the power from the propeller is not much impeded, passing under the towed boat, with full steering available.  If the towing boat is fairly shallow draughted, and the front of the towed boat at a similar draught, then the thrust from the propeller instead hits the front of the towed boat, with much of its power wasted, and steering very compromised.

 

So for working boats Cross Straps are appropriate when towing an unladen butty but totally unsuitable with a heavy laden butty.

Edited April 16, 2023 by alan_fincher

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Two of us towed a broken down NB on the River Trent from Cromwell weir to Kings marina.

 

The 'other boat' elected to use a 'long tow' and it was a bit of a disaster, as the rounded into Nether lock cut the towing boat steered into the cut and kept going, whilst the boat being towed 'cut the corner' and did a full speed (5mph) T-bone into the cut wall as the line took the 'shortes route'.It was a hell of a bang and much of the 'stuff' inside the boat was thrown about and smashed and we reckon the boat became several inches shorter.

 

Whilst inside the lock the 'tow-boat' released the broken down boat & I came alongside and breasted up (lashed alongside) and we carried on into the marina very nicely - there was even 2 adjacent moorings (between two pontoon fingers and we had such control that we were able to make a 90 degree turn and drive straight into the moorings without touching the pontoons.

 

But - you are correct, for towing on the sea and to minimise snatch from wave action the ideal tow length is around 100 yards.

 

Sometimes the tow can be even longer with the ideal for the tug to be on one wave crest and the tow to be on a following wave crest. For example,  I have seen tows as long as 2000ft  or more at times. That of course can cause complications in shallowing water and care mus be taken to shorten the tow and possibly reduce speed in plenty of time to prevent the catenary of the tow wire from dragging along the sea bed.

 

 

Howard

 

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by howardang

[Tigerr]

44 minutes ago, howardang said:

Sometimes the tow can be even longer with the ideal for the tug to be on one wave crest and the tow to be on a following wave crest. For example,  I have seen tows as long as 2000ft  or more at times. That of course can cause complications in shallowing water and care mus be taken to shorten the tow and possibly reduce speed in plenty of time to prevent the catenary of the tow wire from dragging along the sea bed.

 

 

Howard

 

 

 

That was pretty much standard when I was on convoys too.

Not only long fetch wave mitigation but also separate the U boat targets.

Good advice for anyone on the K&A I reckon. Mind you that 2k tow is probably going through 3 locks, which takes a bit of managing. 

[howardang]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

Sometimes the tow can be even longer with the ideal for the tug to be on one wave crest and the tow to be on a following wave crest. For example,  I have seen tows as long as 2000ft  or more at times. That of course can cause complications in shallowing water and care mus be taken to shorten the tow and possibly reduce speed in plenty of time to prevent the catenary of the tow wire from dragging along the sea bed.

 

 

Howard

This might be of interest to some. A tow off East Africa I did some years ago from Mombasa to Mozambique  of two large barges and a harbour tug which had a total overall length in excess of half a mile.

1 hour ago, howardang said:

 

 

 

[agg221]

Our engine failed on the way back from Ellesmere Port last week (the coolant return pipe fitting vibrated itself off and dumped all the coolant in the bilge).

 

We were travelling with another boat which was behind at the time, so I pulled us over to the side at the next bridge hole, tied a loop on the end of the bow rope which is about 20' long and hooked it on to the stern stud of the other boat as it went past.

 

Our boat was originally horsedrawn, now with a counter conversion but the original stern post below the counter level. It now only has a standard sized rudder. I was surprised at just how easily it towed and steered - not much slower either. We made it round the turn and over the aqueduct at Nantwich for example, with no problems at all. In some respects it was more compliant on steering than it is when powered.

 

Wife and younger daughter managed to locate the nut and bolt in the bilge, wife cut a new gasket, bolted it all up and re-filled the coolant system and we were back under power by the time we left Hack Green, which was good because the wind up there was so strong it would nearly stop you dead in bridge holes and there were breaking waves on the water!

 

Alec

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

Sometimes the tow can be even longer with the ideal for the tug to be on one wave crest and the tow to be on a following wave crest. For example,  I have seen tows as long as 2000ft  or more at times. That of course can cause complications in shallowing water and care mus be taken to shorten the tow and possibly reduce speed in plenty of time to prevent the catenary of the tow wire from dragging along the sea bed.

 

 

Howard

 

 

 

I can beat that. We were on a sailing race from Lerwick to Bergen when a surveying boat ahead told the racing fleet that we were all going to have to divert at least 5 Km behind them. Someone called up questioning the reason and apparently they were towing some sort of surveying device on a 5 Km towline (no I don't know what it was, but something pretty sensitive apparently).

[Tam & Di]

4 hours ago, PCSB said:

Given that a butty has a very large rudder (is this called an ellen??) they do have good stearage, a standard NB being towed I would suspect doesn't, though will have some. Is this wrong?

 Towage at sea and on narrow restricted waterways are altogether different. The rudder of a butty is called an 'elum' by working boat people who dropped the 'h' of helm in their language. Alan_fincher and BEngo have explained how commercial narrow boats worked, breasted up or on cross-straps on wide canals such as the Grand Union when empty, or using a 20' snatcher between the motor and unpowered butty on short pounds (distance between locks), or a 90' snubber on long pounds when loaded. Towing a modern pleasure boat is another thing altogether as they will not generally have a sufficiently large rudder to be steered without thrust from the engine, and the towing boat was probably never designed with towage in mind, and its engine may well not be up to the job. Their relative drafts will also differ, as they are neither fully loaded nor empty, and the way one boat affects the other will not be the same

 

For someone experienced it would be a matter of trial and error until the ideal method could be found, but at least they would have something to go by. An inexperienced boater will have no background to understand what might work and what might not, so it would be a matter of chance. Chance would likely as not mean the towline fetched up around the blades of the tug, and the tug gaining more dents in the stern every time they got stuck in a bridgehole or arrived at a lock - an unpowered boat has no form of brakes other than running up the bank.

 

Tam

Edited April 16, 2023 by Tam & Di
credit BEngo

[howardang]

36 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I can beat that. We were on a sailing race from Lerwick to Bergen when a surveying boat ahead told the racing fleet that we were all going to have to divert at least 5 Km behind them. Someone called up questioning the reason and apparently they were towing some sort of surveying device on a 5 Km towline (no I don't know what it was, but something pretty sensitive apparently).

Almost certainly surveying using small explosive charges, or sometimes compressed air blasts to explore the sea bed and its geology.That sort of work has been carried out offshore for many years as part of the initial geological surveys prior to starting drilling. 
 

Howard

[magnetman]

If it is a broad canal or the Thames or similar I would not consider towing another boat behind. Too awkward.

 

Put it on the side and you are in charge of the situation.

 

People don't seem at all concerned about widebeam craft all over the place so don't worry about the width thing they'll deal with it.

 

 

 

[jonathanA]

The worst thing I've ever had to tow on a canal was a grp cruiser behind  a nb. Couldn't cross strap due to the high bow on the cruiser and on a longish line the cruiser was all over the place... on a shorter line then the cruiser was constantly trying to overtake everytime the nb slowed down....

 

I was later told that towing a bucket or old tyre behind the cruiser would have kept it in line behind. Not had the chance to try that (thankfully)

 

We have breasted up to do (share) wide locks which freed up a crew member and was surprisingly effective.

[LadyG]

I was being towed in my Mini down Northallerton High street when a pedestrian tried to cross, he  managed to jump over, but it must have been exciting for him, it certainly was for me!

Edited April 16, 2023 by LadyG

[Grassman]

This thread is of particular interest to me as this Thursday I'm being towed from Kings Bromley to Great Haywood. My tow-er has a powerful vintage engine and has towed boats before. We will be doing the cross strapped method, and having read the advice on here I will empty my bow water tank and take 2 of my 3 gas bottles out so as to raise the front a bit.

 

On this section of the T&M there are a few tight bends and 'narrows' which, with a combined length of 124 feet (both our boats are 62ft) might present some challenges, especially if we meet any oncoming boats! We plan to leave early morning before the traffic gets too busy. 

 

It's not helped by the fact there's a gravel barge working in the area at the moment moving aggregate from by Armitage Tunnel to Shadehouse for the towpath repairs. With a combined 90ft (70ft hopper and a 20ft pusher) it could be fun if we meet it oncoming in the wrong place! I've spoken to him so he will at least be prepared for meeting us somewhere along the way and visa versa.

[___]

11 minutes ago, Grassman said:

This thread is of particular interest to me as this Thursday I'm being towed from Kings Bromley to Great Haywood. My tow-er has a powerful vintage engine and has towed boats before. We will be doing the cross strapped method, and having read the advice on here I will empty my bow water tank and take 2 of my 3 gas bottles out so as to raise the front a bit.

 

On this section of the T&M there are a few tight bends and 'narrows' which, with a combined length of 124 feet (both our boats are 62ft) might present some challenges, especially if we meet any oncoming boats! We plan to leave early morning before the traffic gets too busy. 

 

It's not helped by the fact there's a gravel barge working in the area at the moment moving aggregate from by Armitage Tunnel to Shadehouse for the towpath repairs. With a combined 90ft (70ft hopper and a 20ft pusher) it could be fun if we meet it oncoming in the wrong place! I've spoken to him so he will at least be prepared for meeting us somewhere along the way and visa versa.

What’s the logic for wanting to raise the bow? Providing it is sufficiently high enough to keep the cross straps in place around the stem it should be fine.

 

If it gets too high it could hit the back of the tiller on the towing boat. It does depend on the shape of the boats and the size of the fenders. I’d particularly not want you to raise the bow but the back end of my boat/tug is very low (and fully licensed and insured for towing)

 

ETA - you also want to avoid pulling the back end of the towing boat upwards so the prop stays deep in the water.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Grassman]

4 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

What’s the logic for wanting to raise the bow? Providing it is sufficiently high enough to keep the cross straps in place around the stem it should be fine.

 

If it gets too high it could hit the back of the tiller on the towing boat. It does depend on the shape of the boats and the size of the fenders. I’d particularly not want you to raise the bow but the back end of my boat/tug is very low (and fully licensed and insured for towing)

 

ETA - you also want to avoid pulling the back end of the towing boat upwards so the prop stays deep in the water.

 

Because of Alan Fincher's advice. Which makes sense, but I will only do this if we need to, i.e once we've checked the respective heights when we get the two boats together.

[Tam & Di]

26 minutes ago, Grassman said:

On this section of the T&M there are a few tight bends and 'narrows' which, with a combined length of 124 feet (both our boats are 62ft) might present some challenges, especially if we meet any oncoming boats! We plan to leave early morning before the traffic gets too busy.

 

With the butty on cross straps on empty working boats tight bends are if anything easier than with a single motor. You initially move the tiller to start the turn, then the weight of the butty pushes it further round - the motor steerer utimately has to steer 'out of the turn' to stop being pushed too far and to snatch the butty fore-end round. This will not be much different for pleasure craft - if there is a steerer on the towed boat make sure he does not attempt to put his rudder over to steer round the turn at that initial point or he will simply stop the 'tug' getting round. You need to have the mind-set that the towed boat effectively acts as a rudder in that situation.

 

'Narrows' would only be a challenge if it means they are too narrow for boats to pass each other. If you meet the gravel barge when it is loaded you will need to try to be as close to him as you can, as the pressure wave from his bow will push you sideways away, and if you are already right over at the edge of your channel that would give you problems. If the towed boat is on cross straps that makes it more difficult for the 'tug' to get clear of the shallows at the edge. It is also fatal to assume you should ease right off to tick-over when meeting or, God forbend, to go into neutral. You only have steerage while you have a decent amount of power on.

 

Tam

Edited April 17, 2023 by Tam & Di
spalling

[___]

21 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

Because of Alan Fincher's advice. Which makes sense, but I will only do this if we need to, i.e once we've checked the respective heights when we get the two boats together.

Ah, yes.

 

Well you know the factors to balance out.

 

It’s only a short tow so I’m sure you’ll manage but you won’t have much steerage from the back and to a degree it’s better if the towed boat isn’t steered unless the steerer knows what they’re doing so they help rather than hinder the tug skipper.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Rob-M]

If on cross straps it can often be better for the towed boat to tie the tiller central and just leave the motor boat to do the steering.  If you try steering the towed boat the same as you would if under your own power you can cause lots of problems.  If you are steering on the towed boat concentrate on where your stern is rather than your bows.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

If on cross straps it can often be better for the towed boat to tie the tiller central and just leave the motor boat to do the steering.  If you try steering the towed boat the same as you would if under your own power you can cause lots of problems.  If you are steering on the towed boat concentrate on where your stern is rather than your bows.

Having done this, letting the towed boat steer ends up with the tail trying to wag the dog, and makes the motor's job *much* harder -- you think you're aiming for a gap and suddenly your stern gets unexpectedly pushed sideways... 😞

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[Rob-M]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

Having done this, letting the towed boat steer ends up with the tail trying to wag the dog, and makes the motor's job *much* harder -- you think you're aiming for a gap and suddenly your stern gets unexpectedly pushed sideways... 😞

When I'm towing a butty having an experienced butty steerer makes the job much easier as they assist rather than an inexperienced steerer who can hinder. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

When I'm towing a butty having an experienced butty steerer makes the job much easier as they assist rather than an inexperienced steerer who can hinder. 

True -- but given that the case being discussed was towing a broken-down boat (as it was when I did it), the odds have having an experienced butty steerer must be close to zero... 😉

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

True -- but given that the case being discussed was towing a broken-down boat (as it was when I did it), the odds have having an experienced butty steerer must be close to zero... 😉

 

I trust you didn't carry out a tow using a hire boat?