Getting a 14 day overstay notice when staying more than 2 days (but less than 14) on a short stay mooring that reverts to 14 days in winter!

[Dave123]

Have twice in 2 weeks received overstay emails from CRT which stated I had spent more than 14 days in the same area. I knew this to be incorrect as I have moved to a new place at least every 14 days the whole year. Upon further communication with CRT it transpired these emails had been sent because I had been on a 48h short stay mooring last fortnight and a different one this fortnight, in two different villages. Neither of which had signs saying all year, so therefore they revert to 14 days in the winter. This bothers me as it is really misleading to word the email in such a way as to make it about breaking a different rule to the one CRT think I had broken. One is a breach of the BW act, the other a breach of the licence T&C, nevermind the fact that they should be aware which moorings revert to 14 days in winter. Had the overstay notices taken off my record so not a concern with regard to that, but I want to make sure this doesn't keep happening? And wondered if others have encountered this? It was a bit harder to find the reference to short stay moorings reverting to 14 days on the CRT website this time, it's buried in the FAQ section and not mentioned in the main blurb on short stay moorings. Apart from being nice to be able to stay longer on these moorings in winter, it's stupid to have purpose built mooring spaces sitting empty all winter whilst people chip away already collapsing towpath with mooring pins just around the corner.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Dave123

[Bod]

Appeal  the overstays, to get them off your record.

In your appeal, quote the revelent information and where it is to be found.

Good luck.

 

Bod

[David Mack]

Probably the local checker isn't aware of the 14 day limit in winter and has reported you to the system, which in turn doesn't check the validity of the report, just sends out the overstay notice.

[ditchcrawler]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Probably the local checker isn't aware of the 14 day limit in winter and has reported you to the system, which in turn doesn't check the validity of the report, just sends out the overstay notice.

Surly its not the checkers fault, doesn't he just input every boat he passes and the the great computer in the sky decides who has been overstaying.

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Surly its not the checkers fault, doesn't he just input every boat he passes and the the great computer in the sky decides who has been overstaying.

Well one would have thought so, but on another thread we seem to have established that  head office doesn't have a complete map of mooring restrictions, so it will be up to the bod on the ground to decide if a boater has complied with the signs locally (which mostly don't mention the 14 days in winter thing).

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Well one would have thought so, but on another thread we seem to have established that  head office doesn't have a complete map of mooring restrictions, so it will be up to the bod on the ground to decide if a boater has complied with the signs locally (which mostly don't mention the 14 days in winter thing).

But even if he knows a boat is overstaying because its on his patch does he report it. I thought he reported every boat moored in every location he checks and then someone goes through the data to see if its overstayed.

 

[Dave123]

On 25/02/2023 at 14:47, David Mack said:

Well one would have thought so, but on another thread we seem to have established that  head office doesn't have a complete map of mooring restrictions, so it will be up to the bod on the ground to decide if a boater has complied with the signs locally (which mostly don't mention the 14 days in winter thing).

This is what I have been trying to establish. Surprisingly few boaters seem aware that most short stay moorings revert to 14 days in winter and so possibly a new boat checker is also unaware of this rule. I assumed the emails were either automated or decided upon centrally rather than by the bod on the towpath but it seems perhaps not.

[matty40s]

On 25/02/2023 at 15:10, ditchcrawler said:

But even if he knows a boat is overstaying because its on his patch does he report it. I thought he reported every boat moored in every location he checks and then someone goes through the data to see if its overstayed.

 

He☆ doesnt report any particular vessel, just electronically logs location of every vessel he passes. The only time he takes a photograph is when the vessel seems to be unregistered, no visible number, license or name.

 

(☆There may be a she data collector, I just havnt seen one yet)

[David Mack]

10 hours ago, matty40s said:

He☆ doesnt report any particular vessel, just electronically logs location of every vessel he passes. The only time he takes a photograph is when the vessel seems to be unregistered, no visible number, license or name.

 

(☆There may be a she data collector, I just havnt seen one yet)

So how does the system determine, for boats that have been spotted in the same location less than 14 days apart, which are legitimately moored on (signed or unsigned) 14 day moorings and which have overstayed on shorter duration moorings?

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

So how does the system determine, for boats that have been spotted in the same location less than 14 days apart, which are legitimately moored on (signed or unsigned) 14 day moorings and which have overstayed on shorter duration moorings?

Erratically!

[Rambling Boater]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Erratically!

The other problem is low sample rate.

 

If your boat hasn't been spotted/logged on the system for more than 14 days you could get flagged as being in the same location for over 14 days just because you've travelled many miles, turned around and moored back at the same location.

 

I'm of those who prefer to travel around a lot, but try to avoid getting a false flag due to the above. Not so easy in the winter with all the stoppages.

 

Having said that, I've spotted that the boat spotters are spotted more often at the same spots these days!

[Momac]

I didn't realise that 2 day restrictions were relaxed to 14 days  in winter unless signed otherwise  but it is correct according to the C&RT website

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/moorings/canal-and-river-mooring-faqs

 

 

 

 

[Puffling]

5 hours ago, MartynG said:

I didn't realise that 2 day restrictions were relaxed to 14 days  in winter unless signed otherwise  but it is correct according to the C&RT website

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/moorings/canal-and-river-mooring-faqs

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's the end of winter on the 31st of March for two and seven day moorings. But winter ends today (28th of February) for designated, paid for winter mooring sites.

[casper ghost]

On 27/02/2023 at 12:47, matty40s said:

He☆ doesnt report any particular vessel, 

 

(☆There may be a she data collector, I just havnt seen one yet)

Unless he/she identifies as non-binary, then it's they or them, apparently...

[Cheshire cat]

I haven't noticed any designated winter mooring sites this year. Pre Covid CART seemed to be setting them up all over the place.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

I haven't noticed any designated winter mooring sites this year. Pre Covid CART seemed to be setting them up all over the place.

 

 

There was no need, as CRT appear to have virtually ceased enforcement.

 

The OP was desperately unlucky!  

[ditchcrawler]

28 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

There was no need, as CRT appear to have virtually ceased enforcement.

 

The OP was desperately unlucky!  

bottom of Foxton, on the Ashby, can't remember the others I have seen

[matty40s]

4 hours ago, casper ghost said:

Unless he/she identifies as non-binary, then it's they or them, apparently...

I havnt seen any of them with a 1 or 0 on their sweatshirts so I suppose they are all the same.

Androidonteer?

1 hour ago, Cheshire cat said:

I haven't noticed any designated winter mooring sites this year. Pre Covid CART seemed to be setting them up all over the place.

Plenty of blue signed empty spaces down here, NortonJunc, Stowe Hill waterpoint, Gayton, Stoke Bruerne. The one guy who has been at Stowe Hill for the last 9 years refused to pay again for the privilege, doing short bridge hop over a 3 km distance.

[Adam]

I am pondering why people pay for winter moorings, genuinely most seem to moor on random stretch of canal and nobody bothers - especially if it is unattractive town in a GRP boat 

 

[matty40s]

You mean Nuneaton, just say it.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 minutes ago, Adam said:

I am pondering why people pay for winter moorings, genuinely most seem to moor on random stretch of canal and nobody bothers - especially if it is unattractive town in a GRP boat 

 

I did for a couple of months one winter because I got meself a job in the area. 
 

Not Nuneaton though !!

Thank god. 
 

Suited me at the time. 
Next to services, a  very good pub and 2min walk in to town. 
Sometimes CRT get it right 😂😂😂

 

Cheaper than a marina and loads more on offer. 
Yes, I’m taking the piss, but it is true. 
 

 

[matty40s]

We took one in 2016, not an official one, but an empty CRT longterm mooring at the top end of loughborough at Bishops Meadow. 

We knew several had been vacant for ages, and after the previous years floods, asked if we could pay for 2 months Dec, Jan. This was agreed, and we stopped there for Feb as well. 

It meant Kathy had a 200 yard walk for work, car parking and water down the bottom end.

 

We were glad to leave though, some strange characters on there. One accused us of pinching his generator, barbeque and batteries over 3 successive weekends( we did get the CRT moorings warden involved in the end) and another told us we couldnt moor there as he knew who paid for the mooring.

[Mike Todd]

23 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

There was no need, as CRT appear to have virtually ceased enforcement.

 

The OP was desperately unlucky!  

Far from ceasing it on the K&A

[Momac]

A spotter was spotted last year local to us.

That must be the third I have known in 15 years. But I guess  some may have passed by without me noticing.

With the increases in license fees perhaps there will be more spotters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

One wonders if the CRT are allowed to operate drones along canals. I mean electronic flying devices not the worker wasps.

 

I know you are not supposed to fly them above the public but what about flying them above or beside customers?

 

Hobby drone operators seem to be able to do aerial of canals.

 

Maybe the T&C will at some point require boat number to be written on cabin top and visible in 6 inch lettering.