Not looking good for us

[Momac]

28 minutes ago, matty40s said:

There are at least 2 of these on stakes on the towpath by every single bridge with an access path on the Grand Union. How is that a sensible use of funds.

I expect  the idea is to make the general non boating  public aware that C&RT are responsible for the canal in the hope that the public might be inclined to make a donation.

If the sign had  a QR code linking to  a just giving site it might just  result in some donations. 

[Richard Fairhurst]

Signs cost tuppence hapenny. Even permanent metal signs are cheap at the size they're used on the canals. Plus CRT is installing them on its own property and doesn't need to protect its workforce against passing vehicles doing 70mph (Norbury Wharf dayboats possibly excepted), so it doesn't have to go through the H&S rigmarole needed to put a sign up on the highways.

 

I may be completely wrong, but I suspect CRT's total sign budget for three years probably doesn't equal the cost of repairs to one listed bridge that gets clouted by a passing HGV driver.

[Midnight]

17 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

Signs cost tuppence hapenny.

Plus the cost of erecting them. At least two CRT workers per sign set against the cost of fixing one broken paddle. There's 24 signs at Woddlesford Lock last time I looked - sixpence ????

[Rob-M]

9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Plus the cost of erecting them. At least two CRT workers per sign set against the cost of fixing one broken paddle. There's 24 signs at Woddlesford Lock last time I looked - sixpence ????

Often installed by volunteers though who may be able to install a sign but not able to fix a paddle.

[IanD]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

The blue signs are displacement activity. CRT management know perfectly well they are presiding over a declining system and the relative pittance being wasted on blue signs would make no discernible difference if switched to the maintenance budget, but there would be no blue signs and it would look as though management was doing nothing. At least the blue signs make it look as though there is some form of life present in head office. This is their real function. 

 

In the world of commerce it is often said that when a company which has been posting poor results and short of money suddenly re-paints the lines in the car park and redecorates reception and the gents toilets, the directors know the point of no return has been passed and the organisation is going bust. Very perceptive and true, and I read the forest of CRT blue signs in the same way. 

I suspect the blue signs are to make it look like CART are doing something, but the target is the government -- it certainly isn't boaters. Parry pretty much admitted this in his address to boaters, they're to try and keep the grant going. The fact that this is pulling the wool over a gullible government's eyes and they're probably ignored by most of the public doesn't matter, spending maybe 0.1% of your budget on them to stop the government cutting far more than this off the grant is a bargain... 😉

Edited February 20, 2023 by IanD

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Midnight said:

 I think it's you who misses the point.  Blue signs annoy boaters because the sheer number of them in places where they are not really going to do what they are intended to do. As an example Millbank Lock on the C&H (which you will pass through if your plans remain unchanged) is in a remote area but has 4 blue signs - one would do the job and the cost of the other three better used to fix the broken paddles along there. I wonder if your thoughts will change when you actually get a boat.

I'm not missing the point, the signs are mostly PR for the public (and the government), not intended to be useful for boaters. I probably see a lot more of them than you do since I cycle past multiple utterly pointless ones every week -- why have a sign saying "Congratulations, you've completed 275m of the xxxx Trail"? -- but then I'm not the intended audience either.

 

You might be right, I might change my mind when I get the boat because I'll see a lot fewer of them than I do now... 😉

Edited February 20, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

Excess signage = dumbing down. 

 

Perhaps this is what is needed for canals at this stage. 

 

The ducks will be saying woof ! 

 

 

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Excess signage = dumbing down. 

 

Perhaps this is what is needed for canals at this stage. 

 

The ducks will be saying woof ! 

 

 

Yes, the government is pretty dumb... 😉

[Richard Fairhurst]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

Often installed by volunteers though who may be able to install a sign but not able to fix a paddle.

Indeed. As a Sustrans volunteer I've installed plenty of signs over the years. I am however more likely to be up s—t creek without a paddle than to be able to fix one.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Richard Fairhurst

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

Signs cost tuppence hapenny.

 

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

Plus the cost of erecting them.

 

...which still doesn't amount to the cost of fixing a bridge after a LGV strike, or probably even the cost of a pair of replacement lock gates.

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

 

...which still doesn't amount to the cost of fixing a bridge after a LGV strike, 

 

 

 

 

Isn't the cost associated with vehicle damage to bridges claimed from the drivers/company ins. co.??

 

(Assuming of course the vehicle can be traced or the driver owns up).

[noddyboater]

What about the huge amount of money that's wasted when maintenance actually takes place? 

I was on a dredging job last year,  down south. First day a massive crane arrives with a team of men, then all the kit arrives on trucks from up north - tug, hoppers, pontoon and 360 to sit on it, at a cost of many thousands (This is for 5 days work).

The job is based at a CRT yard, and guess what's sat in the water where the kit gets craned in? 

A CRT tug, pair of hoppers and dredger. 

Too many people are lining their pockets from the dwindling pot under the current system. 

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

What about the huge amount of money that's wasted when maintenance actually takes place? 

I was on a dredging job last year,  down south. First day a massive crane arrives with a team of men, then all the kit arrives on trucks from up north - tug, hoppers, pontoon and 360 to sit on it, at a cost of many thousands (This is for 5 days work).

The job is based at a CRT yard, and guess what's sat in the water where the kit gets craned in? 

A CRT tug, pair of hoppers and dredger. 

Too many people are lining their pockets from the dwindling pot under the current system. 

 

I would have thought that if CRT had staff and equipmant available and able to do the work they would have, since it would be cheaper -- but most inhouse staff have gone nowadays, and work like this is outsourced.

 

It's the standard way many companies work nowadays, get "expensive" full-time employees (pensions etc.) and equipment (maintenance, replacement etc.) off the books and just pay someone else to come in and do the work as needed.

 

Sometimes it saves money, sometimes it doesn't -- but what it does do is make the books look better, which is what the government wants to see, so it's what CART do... 😞

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

 

...which still doesn't amount to the cost of fixing a bridge after a LGV strike, or probably even the cost of a pair of replacement lock gates.

 

 but probably cover the cost of fixing a paddle and there's a lot of them that need fixing - stoppages waiting to happen and there's a lot of them up here too.

[noddyboater]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

I would have thought that if CRT had staff and equipmant available and able to do the work they would have, since it would be cheaper -- but most inhouse staff have gone nowadays, and work like this is outsourced.

 

It's the standard way many companies work nowadays, get "expensive" full-time employees (pensions etc.) and equipment (maintenance, replacement etc.) off the books and just pay someone else to come in and do the work as needed.

 

Sometimes it saves money, sometimes it doesn't -- but what it does do is make the books look better, which is what the government wants to see, so it's what CART do... 😞

Yes I realise that's how things "work" these days,  but it doesn't mean it's value for money. 

Get a company in to do a spot of dredging,  they actually haven't got the gear so they get someone else involved who has, but they supply labour as well.

Meanwhile the CRT staff turn up and watch,  staff who are capable of doing at least 70% of the job, with their own equipment. A bit of training and a day or two of maintenance on the dredger and it could have been done in house which would have saved a fortune. 

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

I would have thought that if CRT had staff and equipmant available and able to do the work they would have, since it would be cheaper -- but most inhouse staff have gone nowadays, and work like this is outsourced.

 

It's the standard way many companies work nowadays, get "expensive" full-time employees (pensions etc.) and equipment (maintenance, replacement etc.) off the books and just pay someone else to come in and do the work as needed.

 

Sometimes it saves money, sometimes it doesn't -- but what it does do is make the books look better, which is what the government wants to see, so it's what CART do... 😞

In the public sector (and similar) it is also often the only way to get a labour force at all. The current round of strikes highlights the difference between private and public sector solutions to the present situation (and similar for the past decade or two). All too often the outsourced job is done by the same people who used to be in house but at a more realistic wage that the Gov rails against.

[ditchcrawler]

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

Isn't the cost associated with vehicle damage to bridges claimed from the drivers/company ins. co.??

 

(Assuming of course the vehicle can be traced or the driver owns up).

And in what proportion of cases can the vehicle be traced? Only those where the accident immobilises the vehicle concerned or where the emergency services attend I imagine, so not very many.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

And in what proportion of cases can the vehicle be traced? Only those where the accident immobilises the vehicle concerned or where the emergency services attend I imagine, so not very many.

 

I dont know the figure.

 

Nor I suspect does anyone else other than CRT.

 

What proportion of bridges are not the responsibility of CRT, I suspect noboody other than CRT know that either.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Perfectly good signs 

[Midnight]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Perfectly good signs 

No cannot be! Mr Parry promised signs would only be replaced when the BW ones were worn out. Now go and stand in the corner.

[dmr]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

And in what proportion of cases can the vehicle be traced? Only those where the accident immobilises the vehicle concerned or where the emergency services attend I imagine, so not very many.

 

We witnessed a significant bridge strike and phoned CRT with the registration number. A CRT bod who deals with these things phoned back very quickly, so they do try, but I suspect the chances of a successful insurance claim are not good.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

We witnessed a significant bridge strike and phoned CRT with the registration number. A CRT bod who deals with these things phoned back very quickly, so they do try, but I suspect the chances of a successful insurance claim are not good.

 

One reason I have a dash cam...

[PD1964]

9 hours ago, IanD said:

You might be right, I might change my mind when I get the boat because I'll see a lot fewer of them than I do now... 😉

 You really don’t have a clue about what’s happening with the canals, your a hire boater, that’s bought your first boat £250K+ picking it up maybe Summer, you boast about your “deep pockets” “Schilling Rudder” I can’t say too much, but your becoming quite laughable up North.

Edited February 20, 2023 by PD1964

[dmr]

55 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

One reason I have a dash cam...

 

Don't think a dash cam would have helped, we had just got the boat tied up and were walking to the pub. 😀