New inverter or generator to run washing machine?

[blackrose]

After putting it off for years I've finally been given a kick up the solar panel arse by the impending mains electricity price rises at my mooring and ordered panels and controller. But I still won't be able to run my washing machine from my batteries as I've only got a semi-sine wave inverter. 

 

So the question is, if I don't want to use mains what's my cheapest option to run the washing machine, replace the inverter with a suitable PSW unit and run the boat engine while I do a wash, or just run the machine from my existing Honda 30EUis generator? I don't know what the fuel consumption of the generator is, but it's meant to run for a maximum of 21 hours from a full 13 litre fill. I guess that's at minimum revs. 

 

It's supposed to use 1.82 litres of petrol/hour but I've no idea at what engine revs that figure relates to. I think my Isuzu 55 probably uses about 1.3 litres of diesel/hour at about 1000rpm. It seems like the boat engine/inverter is marginally cheaper but then I suppose you have to factor in more servicing. The Honda is very cheap to service, just an oil change really.

 

If the boat engine/inverter is the way to go, what would be a reasonably priced inverter that could cope with a 2000w automatic washing machine? My current machine draws 1600w max but if I'm buying a new inverter I'd like it to be able to run a bigger machine in case I ever have to get a new one.

Edited September 6, 2022 by blackrose

[LadyG]

I use the launderette. My washing machine is ancient , today I paid £10 ,plus. £10 for taxis. This is monthly bedding and white undies.

and other clothes would about £10., per month!

So it's £40 pcm to keep everything very clean.

I have an onboard ancient washing machine.

Iff desperate to cut costs id buy a cheap twin tub for small washes. It's too much hassle for one person.

PS Wash n rinse socks every day.

Edited September 6, 2022 by LadyG

[BEngo]

Inverters and washing machines are a touchy combo.  Some get on, some don't  and there is often no apparent rhyme or reason, but that the electronics are at loggerheads.  If you post details of the washer, someone will tell you which inverter they have that works/sometimes works/ is a no-no.

 

I would use the genny.  It will cost less to run, overall,  than a boat engine, alternator,  batteries and inverter.  It seems most washers will live with a Honda's output and they are reliable, which some inverters also are.  You also already have the genny, so there is less capital outlay.

 

All That said I expect that the grid will always be the cheapest way to get domestic high power.

 

N

 

[OldGoat]

When boating we used a small 1200W (or mebe less) inverter to power an inexpesive caravak type washing machine . It was great to wash shirts, jeans ins small loads. Possibly powerful enough for single sheets. The hot water came from the calorifier. As an economy measure that might suit you.

IME PSWs are OK when all you want it to is heating the water but NOT to run todays devices which have electronics built in.

(I'm sure others may disagree.

I'm sure there are other solutions that might be suggested - but rgere are NO absolutes. What works for  one respondent may not for another. It's facile to say but "it all depends" -  the devil hides in the undisclosedvariables.....

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I use the launderette. My washing machine is ancient , today I paid £10 ,plus. £10 for taxis. This is monthly bedding and white undies.

and other clothes would about £10., per month!

So it's £40 pcm to keep everything very clean.

I have an onboard ancient washing machine.

Iff desperate to cut costs id buy a cheap twin tub for small washes. It's too much hassle for one person.

PS Wash n rinse socks every day.

 

No thanks. I find those places depressing. Getting a washing machine was one of the best things I got for the boat.

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

Inverters and washing machines are a touchy combo.  Some get on, some don't  and there is often no apparent rhyme or reason, but that the electronics are at loggerheads.  If you post details of the washer, someone will tell you which inverter they have that works/sometimes works/ is a no-no.

 

I would use the genny.  It will cost less to run, overall,  than a boat engine, alternator,  batteries and inverter.  It seems most washers will live with a Honda's output and they are reliable, which some inverters also are.  You also already have the genny, so there is less capital outlay.

 

All That said I expect that the grid will always be the cheapest way to get domestic high power.

 

N

 

 

Thanks, it's a Zanussi ZWC1300W.

 

I'm not sure about the grid always being cheaper. Figures of £1.60 kWh are being bandied about at my marina so it's getting roughly the same sort of cost as running the generator or diesel engine. And who knows where it could go after that?

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

No thanks. I find those places depressing. Getting a washing machine was one of the best things I got for the boat.

 

Thanks, it's a Zanussi ZWC1300W.

 

I'm not sure about the grid always being cheaper. Figures of £1.60 kWh are being bandied about at my marina so it's getting roughly the same sort of cost as running the generator or diesel engine. And who knows where it could go after that?

 

Modern launderettes are great, good results, all done in an hour

[RichM]

Not directly an answer to the OPs question but one thing that helped me out a LOT with the washing was doing away with the duvets, all of them! 

 

All I did was buy a few faux silk throws. They don't take up much room in the washing machine, they dry quickly and they keep warm. Simple yet effective if a little unconventional! Much more hygienic too as they're easy to wash more frequently. No messing about with bed sheets either!

[MtB]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

All That said I expect that the grid will always be the cheapest way to get domestic high power.

 

Yes. Even given the OP says 1.82 litres of petrol per hour, this means a one hour cycle costs about £3.50 on the genny in fuel.

 

Even at say 80p per kWh on the marina landline a one hour cycle will be maybe two quid. 

[blackrose]

34 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

Modern launderettes are great, good results, all done in an hour

 

Modern washing machines are even better.

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes. Even given the OP says 1.82 litres of petrol per hour, this means a one hour cycle costs about £3.50 on the genny in fuel.

 

Even at say 80p per kWh on the marina landline a one hour cycle will be maybe two quid. 

 

One hour cycle? My machine does a wash in half an hour.

 

Perhaps you didn't see my post above? £1.60/kWh is the figure they're talking about by the end of October.

Edited September 6, 2022 by blackrose

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Modern washing machines are even better.

 

One hour cycle? My machine does a wash in half an hour.

 

 

I'm not sure why you posted. You obviously know all the answers.

 

 

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

I'm not sure why you posted. You obviously know all the answers.

 

I'm not sure why you replied as your seem to know none 

 

I'm not saying I know all the answers. I don't know which is the best option but I am saying that the grid might not necessarily be the cheapest option.

Edited September 6, 2022 by blackrose

[jonathanA]

14 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not sure why you replied as your seem to know none 

 

I'm not saying I know all the answers. I don't know which is the best option but I am saying that the grid might not necessarily be the cheapest option.

Do let me and about 65 million other UK residents know about your cheaper than the grid power source.... 

 

Remember the marina (or any other landlord) are not allowed to profit from the sale of leccy by law. So I'd take the £1.60 a unit with a pinch of salt....

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

Remember the marina (or any other landlord) are not allowed to profit from the sale of leccy by law. So I'd take the £1.60 a unit with a pinch of salt....

True, but they often bend the pricing by charging x amount per unit plus x amount for infrastructure... The result, bloody expensive electricity!!

Edited September 6, 2022 by Quattrodave

[Alan de Enfield]

We are a 'reseller' of electricity (Caravan Park) and there is strict 'guidance' as to what is an acceptable charge for the 'infrastructre' that is acceptable to OFGEM. I've not looked for some time so it may have  changed but the 'guidance' was £35 per annum. Should any complaints be received about charges any amount above that would be strongly investigated and explanations needed that justify the breaking of the guidelines.

[BEngo]

At home one gets 'domestic' electricity which is , expensively, price capped.  Marinas, Caravan Parks,  boatyards  etc.  are 'commercial users' and are not currently price capped. So they pass on the higher than domestic costs for electric, plus the equipment charge.  Usually there is no way for the  boater or caravannista to get a domestic supply as the system is not ser up for it and no 'domestic 'meter can be installed.

Our moorings buy using a broker to find the best contract.  Currently we buy at about 20p a unit.  When this contract expires in a month or so we are expecting to be looking at 50p per unit or more.  The equipment cost is part of the mooring fee.

 

N

[Tony1]

 

I'm sure you'll have considered this, but worth mentioning just in case its slipped down the list of considerations: 

I would check out the 'resting' current draw of any potential new inverter (ie when its on but there is no load on it).

Obviously its more of an issue if you prefer/need to have the inverter on 24/7, as I would guess you do. 

Mine is a 2000 watt model costing under £250. It was a cheap and cheerful Amazon purchase, but is still running fine after a year, and it has a resting current draw of about 0.5 amps. 

That's still 12Ah used over a full day of course, but I have a 240v fridge so I have to leave my inverter on all the time. And some 2000 watt models seem to be significantly worse than mine. The higher power models (say 3000 watts and above), understandably have higher quiescent current draws. 

Those sorts of figures are irrelevant in the summer, of course, because you'll have more solar power than you can use in those months, but come late October and November, it might perhaps eat into the meagre solar that you are able to collect, and that might force you to use the domestic hookup supply more often than you would with a lower power inverter.

Still, all that said it's not a major issue, just another one to consider.

I've heard of a boat installing a dual inverter setup, where they use a lower power (and low draw) inverter as default, which is left on 24/7, and they switch over to a more powerful inverter when they want to run the washing machine etc. 

Its a bit of a palaver just to save money on electricity, but maybe in some scenarios it's felt to be worthwhile?  

 

[Bod]

14 hours ago, blackrose said:

After putting it off for years I've finally been given a kick up the solar panel arse by the impending mains electricity price rises at my mooring and ordered panels and controller. But I still won't be able to run my washing machine from my batteries as I've only got a semi-sine wave inverter. 

 

So the question is, if I don't want to use mains what's my cheapest option to run the washing machine, replace the inverter with a suitable PSW unit and run the boat engine while I do a wash, or just run the machine from my existing Honda 30EUis generator? I don't know what the fuel consumption of the generator is, but it's meant to run for a maximum of 21 hours from a full 13 litre fill. I guess that's at minimum revs. 

 

It's supposed to use 1.82 litres of petrol/hour but I've no idea at what engine revs that figure relates to. I think my Isuzu 55 probably uses about 1.3 litres of diesel/hour at about 1000rpm. It seems like the boat engine/inverter is marginally cheaper but then I suppose you have to factor in more servicing. The Honda is very cheap to service, just an oil change really.

 

If the boat engine/inverter is the way to go, what would be a reasonably priced inverter that could cope with a 2000w automatic washing machine? My current machine draws 1600w max but if I'm buying a new inverter I'd like it to be able to run a bigger machine in case I ever have to get a new one.

Is your shore line metered?

If so then only connecting when you do the washing, may be the cheapest easiest way to go.

Let the solar do most of the supply with present set-up, using the shore line only for the heaviest requirment.

 

Bod

[Jen-in-Wellies]

No one has recommended portable twin tubs yet. Since this is mandatory for any washing machine thread on CWDF, I feel I have no choice.

Uses 200 to 300W during wash and spin cycles, against 1kW plus for an automatic in water heating mode. Clockwork timers, so not fussed about the purity of the sine wave they are getting. If @blackrose is using an immersion heater for heating water, then this is going to be the biggest increase in cost as commercial leccy goes through the roof. If you have a back boiler on a stove, then hot water for a twin tub is included in keeping the boat warm. Will also almost certainly mean not having to upgrade the inverter, or buy and fuel a generator.

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

At home one gets 'domestic' electricity which is , expensively, price capped.  Marinas, Caravan Parks,  boatyards  etc.  are 'commercial users' and are not currently price capped. So they pass on the higher than domestic costs for electric, plus the equipment charge. 

This is also the case for launderettes. @LadyG is going to find the cost of a wash is likely to either rise dramatically, or they will simply shut up shop.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[MtB]

11 hours ago, jonathanA said:

Do let me and about 65 million other UK residents know about your cheaper than the grid power source.... 

 

Remember the marina (or any other landlord) are not allowed to profit from the sale of leccy by law. So I'd take the £1.60 a unit with a pinch of salt....

 

 

I wouldn't. 

 

The BBC programme "You and Yours" had a succession of business owners calling in yesterday all saying their business leccy prices were being raised by 900%. Yes a ninefold rise in unit price from 20p(ish) per kWh to £1.80(ish) per kWh. 

 

Also, their standing charge was going up to (typically) four quid a day.

 

At those sorts of prices it is probably quite close to the cost of generating it yourself. 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I wouldn't. 

 

The BBC programme "You and Yours" had a succession of business owners calling in yesterday all saying their business leccy prices were being raised by 900%. Yes a ninefold rise in unit price from 20p(ish) per kWh to £1.80(ish) per kWh. 

 

Also, their standing charge was going up to (typically) four quid a day.

 

At those sorts of prices it is probably quite close to the cost of generating it yourself. 

 

 

 

 

Until the price of diesel/gas for self generation catches up.  Oh, it already has!

Then there is the maintenance cost of the plant to consider. Self generation from fossil fuel will never beat the big generator economies of scale.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

business owners calling in yesterday all saying their business leccy prices were being raised by 900%.

 

A pub owner was discussing his problems on the news.

His electricty bill has already gone from £3000 per month to £13,000 and using current projections will possibly double again by early next year.

 

He cannot see how he can pass on these increase and is planning to close the business.

[MtB]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A pub owner was discussing his problems on the news.

His electricty bill has already gone from £3000 per month to £13,000 and using current projections will possibly double again by early next year.

 

He cannot see how he can pass on these increase and is planning to close the business.

 

 

Yes, I've heard publicans mentioning £20 to £100 a pint as a necessary price to keep forecast leccy bills paid in their pubs. 

 

 

[Mike Tee]

I’d hold off on a decision until our new PM tells us the new plan on power. If business is given the help that so far has only been given to domestics, then using a marina hook-up may still be the way to go. I hope so anyway!

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

No one has recommended portable twin tubs yet. Since this is mandatory for any washing machine thread on CWDF, I feel I have no choice.

Uses 200 to 300W during wash and spin cycles, against 1kW plus for an automatic in water heating mode. Clockwork timers, so not fussed about the purity of the sine wave they are getting. If @blackrose is using an immersion heater for heating water, then this is going to be the biggest increase in cost as commercial leccy goes through the roof. If you have a back boiler on a stove, then hot water for a twin tub is included in keeping the boat warm. Will also almost certainly mean not having to upgrade the inverter, or buy and fuel a generator.

This is also the case for launderettes. @LadyG is going to find the cost of a wash is likely to either rise dramatically, or they will simply shut up shop.

 

Since you have thrown down the twin tub gauntlet, it is now mandatory that I post a derogatory reply. 

I have to point out that these portable washing machines are a bit limited in terms of capacity. I have one, and I can only really fit things like shirts and small clothing items into it. 

Trousers are possible, but require some supervision and intervention in the washing process. 

Larger things like sheets I haven't tried personally, but I have the deepest scepticism about the prospects of success with such large items. 

On the other hand, I used one of those public washing machines outside Morrisons last week, and even my impaired nostrils could detect a whiff of unpleasantness in some of the clothes that came out. So there is that. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

28 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Since you have thrown down the twin tub gauntlet, it is now mandatory that I post a derogatory reply. 

I have to point out that these portable washing machines are a bit limited in terms of capacity. I have one, and I can only really fit things like shirts and small clothing items into it. 

Trousers are possible, but require some supervision and intervention in the washing process. 

Larger things like sheets I haven't tried personally, but I have the deepest scepticism about the prospects of success with such large items. 

On the other hand, I used one of those public washing machines outside Morrisons last week, and even my impaired nostrils could detect a whiff of unpleasantness in some of the clothes that came out. So there is that. 

 

 

Some people just don't seem to be able to get the hang of using them. I can wash bed sheets and trousers fine. The fact that people edge away from me in crowds and I seem to have a 2m radius empty circle around me at all times, I put down to residual covid precautions. 😀