Josephine- DIY replating and full fitout of a 70s Hancock and Lane narrowboat

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 I just pointed out that full strength welds are not needed on strength grounds for narrowboats.

 

Narrowboats may not have to deal with big waves, but what about when narrowboats are craned out, pulled up slipways without much support or just sit on hardstanding on a couple of wooden blocks spaced 20ft apart? In those situations I'd have thought the hulls are under huge stresses and could use all the strength of the welds they can get?

[Barneyp]

2 hours ago, waterworks said:

Stop trying to fabricate an argument just for the sake of it. 

I'm not trying to fabricate an argument,  I made the point that in replating rather than overplating the OP was going beyond what is normally done.

 

You responded by saying "you made that up though"

 

When I point out that I haven't made it up you acuse me of fabricating an argument, which I am assuming means you realise you have lost that particular argument.

2 hours ago, waterworks said:

 

 

2 hours ago, waterworks said:

 

 

2 hours ago, waterworks said:

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Barneyp

[harrybsmith]

35 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Narrowboats may not have to deal with big waves, but what about when narrowboats are craned out, pulled up slipways without much support or just sit on hardstanding on a couple of wooden blocks spaced 20ft apart? In those situations I'd have thought the hulls are under huge stresses and could use all the strength of the welds they can get?

 

I agree, plenty of bending load there. Of course in the last update the big news was that it had just been moved by road, which involved cranage at both ends off slings and about 100 miles at 56mph and is still straight so clearly isn't held together by bird plop. 

 

May I refer you all to the world of wooden narrowboats? Now they truly are held together by magic and only are afloat by a prayer, a tiny slag inclusion or 2 (of which I maintain there aren't many) has nothing on some string and black goo

[agg221]

I know Canalworld is congenitally incapable of remaining on topic but so far this has been an interesting and enjoyable thread. Perhaps those who want to argue about fitness for purpose of welds would like to start their own thread to do so? If they do, I will happily contribute some thoughts on the origins of fracture mechanics and its application to welded structures, particularly in the context of low quality steels.

 

Alec

[DHutch]

10 minutes ago, agg221 said:

I know Canalworld is congenitally incapable of remaining on topic but so far this has been an interesting and enjoyable thread. Perhaps those who want to argue about fitness for purpose of welds would like to start their own thread to do so? If they do, I will happily contribute some thoughts on the origins of fracture mechanics and its application to welded structures, particularly in the context of low quality steels.

 

Alec

 

Seems reasonable to me!

 

Daniel 

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, DHutch said:

 

Seems reasonable to me!

 

Daniel 

 

You must be new here ... 😁

[Chris Lowe]

23 minutes ago, agg221 said:

I know Canalworld is congenitally incapable of remaining on topic but so far this has been an interesting and enjoyable thread. Perhaps those who want to argue about fitness for purpose of welds would like to start their own thread to do so? If they do, I will happily contribute some thoughts on the origins of fracture mechanics and its application to welded structures, particularly in the context of low quality steels.

 

Alec

 

For this place what an oddly sensible suggestion, but a very strange thing for CWDF to move the argument to a new thread instead of destroying an interesting one.

[john.k]

Ive never had one moments training ,never any qualification testing.....,,yet Ive done thousands of hours of professional welding......   and for sure all the OP needs is GETN-R-DUN.

Edited July 4, 2023 by john.k

[waterworks]

On 03/07/2023 at 18:47, blackrose said:

 

I know nothing about welding but that diagram reinforces (pardon the pun) why I've always preferred to see welds that haven't been ground flush. To me that intuitively seems stronger.

They should only be ground off for cosmetic reasons, certainly not good practice on structural and pipeline welds which should have a concave cap as you can see in the diagram is called a " reinforce" .  

[john.k]

Huge amount of unnecessary work in grinding .........once painted ,no one will see the welds from 10 feet away............if the OP doesnt grit blast,he can simply go over the weld with a needle scaler ,this will knock out any bits of slag and spatter .

[harrybsmith]

Another weekend plodding away at it, lots of little odds and ends tidied up, dodging torrential rain and wind. 

 

Remarkably little of photographic interest but one job that did get done was to wire wheel off, Vactan then prime the floor supports. I'm on a bit of a rust defeating mission now, the rust has served its purpose and fetched the millscale off the new steel, it's now time for it to go. 

 

 

Funny how sometimes you have quite a bit to show for 20 odd hours work, and sometimes you have not a lot. Such is the nature of a project like this, it's all got to be done. 

 

Next time should be a bit more visually impactful, one of the final bits of fabrication will be underway 

[Standedge]

I'm glad you pointed me to this blog Harry - very interesting to see what you got up to before arriving here.

[harrybsmith]

The next step- 

 

 

 

What's that, is it a framework for one of those aesthetically questionable modern "under cloths" front cabin things? Certainly not, although having a deck board that could be signwritten with things like "My bow likes the look of your windows" is quite appealing 

 

It's a gantry set up to lift the tug deck into place. The tug deck is going to be made within the boat, upside down (to allow easy welding of the support beams to the deck) and this gantry is there to then flip it over and get it into place

 

A few other bits completed too, tidied up the edges of the gunwhales and got them ready to recieve the deck and prepped up some bits to act as deck drains when its in place 

[Stilllearning]

18 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

The next step- 

 

 

 

What's that, is it a framework for one of those aesthetically questionable modern "under cloths" front cabin things? Certainly not, although having a deck board that could be signwritten with things like "My bow likes the look of your windows" is quite appealing 

 

It's a gantry set up to lift the tug deck into place. The tug deck is going to be made within the boat, upside down (to allow easy welding of the support beams to the deck) and this gantry is there to then flip it over and get it into place

 

A few other bits completed too, tidied up the edges of the gunwhales and got them ready to recieve the deck and prepped up some bits to act as deck drains when its in place 

That bow is lovely, but dangerous. My first boat had a bit of a pointy high front end and I was ever so careful.

[BilgePump]

21 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

The next step- 

 

What's that, is it a framework for one of those aesthetically questionable modern "under cloths" front cabin things? Certainly not, although having a deck board that could be signwritten with things like "My bow likes the look of your windows" is quite appealing 

 

It's a gantry set up to lift the tug deck into place. The tug deck is going to be made within the boat, upside down (to allow easy welding of the support beams to the deck) and this gantry is there to then flip it over and get it into place

 

A few other bits completed too, tidied up the edges of the gunwhales and got them ready to recieve the deck and prepped up some bits to act as deck drains when its in place 

She's definitely coming along at pace. Surprised that you've managed to get anything done over the last few weeks with the lousy weather we're having.

[harrybsmith]

11 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

She's definitely coming along at pace. Surprised that you've managed to get anything done over the last few weeks with the lousy weather we're having.

 

Yes really has been poor. Fortunately I was able to swap some work around and go and play with boats yesterday where the weather wasn't terrible, which means doing yesterdays work today

 

I genuinely think the biggest challenge and the most key skill involved in getting a project like this done isn't any of the technical aspects, it's being a project manager and ensuring that you have plan A, B and C in place before a session so that no matter what the weather, equipment failure or just random other factors you have the stuff you need to get the job done each time you turn up to the boat. Sometimes I manage it...

 

 

17 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

That bow is lovely, but dangerous. My first boat had a bit of a pointy high front end and I was ever so careful.

 

Proper 70s spec isn't it. As i've said before I think the hull shape of these Fernies is great and I wouldn't be bothering with this work to an ugly boat, but it's definitely worth taking care. I have a tyre with an interesting tread pattern* to be cut up and adapted as a bow fender which should hopefully add a bit of squish to a crash

 

*Bar grip 900*16, if you know you know  

[harrybsmith]

Despite the sky's best intentions, more work has been done

 

On guard! 

 

 

Guard irons are somewhat tacked on here. That pushing arrangement (made of half a G clamp that you weld on) will be deployed to get them fitting completely flush, but the objective here was just to get them into place while I had a 2nd pair of hands on the job.  Lumpy bits here would be bad as they could easily catch on stuff. 

 

Next, onto making the tug deck. First job was to add a return approximately 2" deep around the gunwhale to attach the deck to, and then the supports for the deck could be cut to length from channel section, cut prtially along their thength then welded up at the desired bendyness. I've matched the curve of them to the curve of the roof which has given quite a strong deck. (I'm not feeling childish otherwise i'd have phreased all that more lewdly...) 

 

Deck sheets cut to size from  4mm sheet then attached to the frames, resulting in a curved deck panel  

 

 

The panels themselves are plenty stiff enough to jump up and down on with no flex, even without being attached to anything

 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, harrybsmith said:

Guard irons are somewhat tacked on here.

I trust they are going to be welded continuously top and bottom when the job is done.

1 hour ago, harrybsmith said:

and then the supports for the deck could be cut to length from channel section, cut prtially along their thength then welded up at the desired bendyness.

The guys at Brinklow bend ribs for roofs and decks on a flypress. Gets a nice smooth curve rather than the threepenny bit shape of notching. In the past I have curved 20mm square tube to a smooth curve using no more than a few G clamps.

[harrybsmith]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I trust they are going to be welded continuously top and bottom when the job is done.

The guys at Brinklow bend ribs for roofs and decks on a flypress. Gets a nice smooth curve rather than the threepenny bit shape of notching. In the past I have curved 20mm square tube to a smooth curve using no more than a few G clamps.

 

You are indeed correct, they will be (and in real life time are nearly there)

 

With the pressing etc, I did think about having the supports ring rolled or perhaps press formed by someone, or perhaps bending them by driving a vehicle onto them etc however having tried one and clamped the sheet to it the curve produced on the deck is pretty fluid and I don't mind the small gaps between the support and the deck as it helps to remove a potential capillary rust trap 

[harrybsmith]

And then the moment came... 

 

I contemplated drilling a few holes on the centreline of the tug deck and using eye bolts as lifting eyes to lift the sheets into position, then once complete putting coach bolts in the hole and welding it up to look like a fake line of rivets.  I then came to my senses and realised it's a 70s ex hire boat and in any event it'd be daft to have a row of rivets down the centre of a deck so welded the lifing lugs on instead

 

What surprised me was just how well the system worked. Nearly by accident the first piece of deck fell straight into place, requiring only the lightest of shoves to get it into place, and the fitup to the gunwhale was quite reasonable. 

 

 

Tack the front of that sheet in, support the rear with a ratchet strap (to allow the 2nd sheet to overlap the frame that's half attached to both sheets), crane the rear sheet in, no dramas, a tug deck is born. 

 

 

Properly imposing bow on her now! 

 

[Standedge]

I was surprised at the how different she looked - it really does change the whole 'feel' of the boat having a bow deck back in place Plus, given I was only away for just the weekend, I was rather impressed how much you had got done in such a short space of time,.

[harrybsmith]

5 minutes ago, Standedge said:

I was surprised at the how different she looked - it really does change the whole 'feel' of the boat having a bow deck back in place Plus, given I was only away for just the weekend, I was rather impressed how much you had got done in such a short space of time,.

 

Thanks! Probably see you tomorrow then, day off, more progress on the way 

 

I think I was quite lucky with how everything came together, it was one of those jobs that could easily have turned into a 3 week odyssey (Still might do yet, touch wood...) 

Edited August 15, 2023 by harrybsmith

[Standedge]

9 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

 

Thanks! Probably see you tomorrow then, day off, more progress on the way 

 

I think I was quite lucky with how everything came together, it was one of those jobs that could easily have turned into a 3 week odyssey (Still might do yet, touch wood...) 

I'll look out for you tomorrow then. 

 

I've had quite a run of the opposite lately: "it'll only take a morning""....then two days later, still at it...  🙂

[Stroudwater1]

On 15/08/2023 at 22:06, harrybsmith said:

 

Thanks! Probably see you tomorrow then, day off, more progress on the way 

 

I think I was quite lucky with how everything came together, it was one of those jobs that could easily have turned into a 3 week odyssey (Still might do yet, touch wood...) 

Missed the last instalment it’s looking really good. Presumably you are intending to cut out a hatch in the front cabin roof to facilitate getting out? 
 

I imagine there’s to be some good drainage holes at each corner by the front decks, and a lip on the front entrance to avoid a fair amount of rain ingress. Is anything going under the tug deck? 

 

 

[Bee]

Excellent. That is a big, big project.