Josephine- DIY replating and full fitout of a 70s Hancock and Lane narrowboat

[Barneyp]

36 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Does 'oxide primer' rely on the rust preventing qualities of oxide these days? Or is it just ordinary paint coloured the traditional colour?

Oxide primer is still available, and you can buy "oxide red" coloured paint either as a primer or a top coat.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

Oxide primer is still available, and you can buy "oxide red" coloured paint either as a primer or a top coat.

 

How does one tell the difference?

 

 

[Barneyp]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How does one tell the difference?

 

 

Read the label very carefully.

I've seen some red oxide coloured primers that at first glance appear to be traditional red oxide primer.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

Read the label very carefully.

I've seen some red oxide coloured primers that at first glance appear to be traditional red oxide primer.

 

I've always been deeply suspicious of "red oxide primer", for exactly the reason you describe. Reading the label rarely brings illumination. Just a load of waffle about surface preparation, stirring it and cleaning your brushes afterwards.

 

 

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I've always been deeply suspicious of "red oxide primer", for exactly the reason you describe. Reading the label rarely brings illumination. Just a load of waffle about surface preparation, stirring it and cleaning your brushes afterwards.

 

 

Exactly. I googled "what is red oxide primer" and just got lots of paint supplier websites telling me about their products and how to use them, but nothing about what it actually is, what the active components are, and what chemical processes are involved in corrosion protection.

Edited January 18 by David Mack

[rusty69]

Red oxide is rubbish these days. The last lot i got seemed to have the consistancy of water, and would best be described as 'orange oxide primer'. I hear tales of when paint was paint, and red lead was the stuff to use. I keep meaning to try the resin based zinc primer bonda primer.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Red oxide is rubbish these days. The last lot i got seemed to have the consistancy of water, and would best be described as 'orange oxide primer'. I hear tales of when paint was paint, and red lead was the stuff to use. I keep meaning to try the resin based zinc primer bonda primer.

Red Resin Bonda Primer is very good. Some paints used over the top do however react unless plenty of time is allowed to cure the primer.

I will not use any paint that tells me to wash brushes in water!

[harrybsmith]

Paints and compatibility is a minefield, one of the next updates will contain some even more controversial stuff... 

 

Ultimately the best thing would be to shotblast everything back aggresively, prime with an active primer and follow it up with a topcoat system, all while keeping the shell dry and preferably at 20 degrees c. 

 

That simply isn't possible here, I can't remember the last time it was 20 degrees C and the only reason it isn't raining currently is because it's snowing! 

 

Withams Zinc Phos primer is absolutely OK for use as a primer over Vactan, I do concede you're losing the active benefits of the zinc phos bit but as it's the only primer approved for use under their bilge paint then it's the best option here. As a test sample i've tried it without a rust converter and it performs less well

[waterworks]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Red Resin Bonda Primer is very good. Some paints used over the top do however react unless plenty of time is allowed to cure the primer.

I will not use any paint that tells me to wash brushes in water!

I painted a nb stern just above the waterline with cheap red oxide from Srewfix and an old can of DIY store water based gloss , it's still there 5 years later. 

[truckcab79]

On 15/01/2024 at 23:47, harrybsmith said:

Time for another update

 

So the idea is to get the front 1/2 of the boat liveable, while I finish off the last of the steel work on the stern, which allows me to spend a whole weekend there in relative comfort. Liveable to me, in this context, is dry, warm and able to be cleaned. 

 

Dry has been achieved, able to be cleaned is possible now its painted, but warmth was lacking. suppose i'd better put some insulation in then... 

 

I initially was dead set on sprayfoaming, however it isn't a DIY job (no matter what way you play it) and if you're getting someone in they really need to do the whole boat all at once for it to make financial sense, which isn't possible here, so I've gone for "Celotex" style boards. It gives a constant thickness of insulation which is nice, and I've bonded them to the hull with a generous amount of foam which hopefully leaves no gaps behind. 

 

First job was to batten the roof. There's quite a lot of curvature to the roof so I wan't really happy using timber bent to suit and I had some nice scavenged plywood offcuts (not sure exactly what it is but it's got lots of layers and is very solid) so I chose to make the roof battens out of ply cut to size. Because it's nice ply it does hold screws on its edge 

 

 

 

Templated one, cut them out, screwed and bonded them in. 

 

Then time to insulate the roof. The total thickness of insulation I want on the topsides is 50mm, which on the roof is made up out of two 25mm sheets bonded together. To wedge them in place I made props which force them into shape while the adhesive foam dries. 

 

 

 

Done! Reassuringly there was plenty of squeeze out from the foam, which shows its worked its way throughout the rear of the insulation. 

 

Cabin sides next, which were a tad simpler than the roof as they are flat 50mm sections, although I appear to not have taken a photo of them done, which is weird... 

 

Another thing to achieve liveability was to stick some doors on the front, so I drew a set up on CAD, produced some nice engineering drawings and comissioned a local company with a CNC plasma to knock a couple of sets up. Did they fit? Did they heck, too big. Quick measure and they were bent wrong, so I had to trim the sides off and re-weld them. Quite annoying but now rectified. 

 

 

Here they are fitted temporarily 

 

Still nowhere near up to date, so plenty more to come with more progress being made every weekend 

 

 

 

Looking fantastic. Coming on really nicely.  
 

As does the Series.   Here’s mine. Series 3. Left the factory as a truckcab like yours but now looks rather different and with a V8 sat in my workshop waiting for me to have time to swap it in.  I only finished building the engine about 5 years ago and still haven’t got round to it. 🙄 

 

Keep up the good work  👍

 

[Chris Lowe]

7 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

As does the Series.   Here’s mine. Series 3. Left the factory as a truckcab like yours but now looks rather different and with a V8 sat in my workshop waiting for me to have time to swap it in.  I only finished building the engine about 5 years ago and still haven’t got round to it. 🙄 

Here's your round tuit, no excuse now.

 

[truckcab79]

5 minutes ago, Chris Lowe said:

Here's your round tuit, no excuse now.

 

You’re not kidding.  It’s all wrapped up and not even started it yet. I have all the conversion parts.  No more than a few weekends work to install it. I even manufacture the bolt in brackets for the V8 to series conversions for others…and still haven’t installed my own. Original 2.25 diesel runs like a dream so there’s never been any urgency, plus work, other projects…..usual story.  

[peterboat]

On 18/01/2024 at 16:56, rusty69 said:

Red oxide is rubbish these days. The last lot i got seemed to have the consistancy of water, and would best be described as 'orange oxide primer'. I hear tales of when paint was paint, and red lead was the stuff to use. I keep meaning to try the resin based zinc primer bonda primer.

You can buy epoxy primer better by far and waterproof for 6 months, comes in big rattle cans also etch properties, works on fiberglass as well and can painted without rubbing down as long as painted within 24 hours, mines was painted within the hour today looking good

[Manxcat54]

I am really interested in your blog, I have just become the proud owner of this boat, it is 57 ft long with no manufacturer history, some say Teddesley of Penkridge, but not sure, the base plate on my boat is good, there is some pitting on the sides near air and water line, but not really serious, I think a blob or two of crow shit weld will sort that, I saw a boat last week and both sides looked like they were covered in Frog spawn ah ah it was lots of small pool welds, keep up the good work.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

I am really interested in your blog, I have just become the proud owner of this boat, it is 57 ft long with no manufacturer history, some say Teddesley of Penkridge, but not sure, the base plate on my boat is good, there is some pitting on the sides near air and water line, but not really serious, I think a blob or two of crow shit weld will sort that, I saw a boat last week and both sides looked like they were covered in Frog spawn ah ah it was lots of small pool welds, keep up the good work.

 

That is a good looking hull, decent rear swim, a bit brief on the bow. "D" bar handrails? The big stern upsweep is not typical hire boat. It may have a good pedigree.

Lister air cooled engine? Or is it just big side vents?

[Manxcat54]

Engine is a Peugeot 503

[Tracy D'arth]

39 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

Engine is a Peugeot 503

Unusual and not an engine that I know unless it is a Ford produced unit from the '80s.

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Unusual and not an engine that I know unless it is a Ford produced unit from the '80s.

 

I think that for a short time one of the mariners did a Peugeot based engine, maybe 25 or so years ago. 

[harrybsmith]

Well i'm frankly disappointed in you all... Not one guess at an engine. 

 

Lister HR3 is the answer. I picked up this genset with 5 hours on the clock from a local farm after a chance chat with someone who worked there. The SR3 mentioned earlier in the thread is fully rebuilt now (and very shiny) so if anyone wants a reverse rotation SR with electric start then give me a shout, happy for it to go cheapish as it's no longer needed 

 

 

In no way is it implied this was driven on the road with the engine in the back

 

The reason i've gone for the HR3 is because by having the generator it gives me absolutely buckets of power (25 KVA...) for running kit like a washing machine, allows me to offset the engine from the centreline of the boat by running a 3 phase motor to drive the prop and I have a rough idea to build a workshop butty after this, and being able to plug that into 3 phase would be mega. 

 

To get it in was a bit of a game, step 1 was to cut a massive hole in the stern. Much of this needed replacement anyway and i've held off doing it for this reason 

 

After that the Land Rover could be backed up some ramps to get it level with the counter 

 

 

And the engine pulled off using a chain puller 

 

 

Then craned down with an engine crane 

 

 

 

 

In other news i've been distracted by painting other people's boats rather than my own... 

 

 

 

(Wey & Arun Canal Trust's dredger float)

 

 

Still more to come 

[Tracy D'arth]

 I  think you may need a new top bearing on the tiller!!!

[harrybsmith]

7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 I  think you may need a new top bearing on the tiller!!!

 

And the rest! The stern is the only area that remains that's unrepaired, and it's atrocious. The tube the bearing sits on (rudder tube?) is seriously frilly and there's a big hole in front of the weed hatch. New uxter plate, a decent chunk of swim and counter repairs all planned, for now I'm making the best of a massive hole to get things like a washing machine and kitchen units in. 

 

It really shows that boats tend to deteriorate pretty uniformly, I think the hole that sunk her originally was probably in the bow, but there's been at least 10 holes throughout the hull that all could have 

[David Mack]

44 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

for now I'm making the best of a massive hole to get things like a washing machine and kitchen units in.

Washing machines and kitchen units tend to have shorter lives than steel boat shells. Would be a good idea to plan in openings suitable for their eventual removal and replacement without cutting into the structure.

[harrybsmith]

49 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Washing machines and kitchen units tend to have shorter lives than steel boat shells. Would be a good idea to plan in openings suitable for their eventual removal and replacement without cutting into the structure.

 

I totally agree, I can even get the engine out the doors with the flywheel housing removed, standard 60cm appliances go with no bother, it's just a lot easier with a boat on the hard to not have to lift them to nearly head height to get them on the stern 

 

Also "when are you closing up the big hole in the back of your boat" seems to be the most frequently asked question in real life, and the answer is not for another couple of months yet 

[john.k]

I think you will have serious problems running a genset that big to power kitchen appliances ........... Listers are notorious for bore glazing if run light..........Running a prop should be enough power drain to load up the motor.

[blackrose]

On 16/01/2024 at 02:47, harrybsmith said:

To wedge them in place I made props which force them into shape while the adhesive foam dries. 

 

 

 

 

Looking at the buckling on the insulation panel on the underside where it's been forced into compression to fit the curve of the roof, makes me wonder.... When you wedged the insulation panels in place did you notice whether they cracked or split on the other side which is forced into tension? It obviously depends on the width of the board and the curve of the roof, but if the foam panel cracks or splits it will loose its insulation properties at those points - unless those splits or cracks are filled with the sprayfoam you used as adhesive. 

Edited February 21 by blackrose