Diesel rationing ?.... 😳

[Boat afloat]

Does anyone have any real-life experience of finding diesel on the canal network right now? We are due to set off from Oxford to the Leeds Liverpool in the next week and am starting to get anxious of fuel shortage issues.

 

We have about 40% of a tank...which I presume would be a 200 litre tank? It's a long way so will definitely need more but are we going to find it an issue maybe?

 

Can anyone recommend a reliable way of tracking fuel boats and their movements? I've being doing some research but it seems a touch hit and miss though.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Ange said:

Obvs as a wealthy southerner I should never have had to deal with the general public. Unfortunately instead of lolling around with my wealthy friends (lol - they were all grafting at summer jobs) when I was 15 (1980) I spent my summer holidays working 14 hour days with a 15 minute lunch break for 50p an hour serving ice creams and selling rock at the seaside kiosk near me. At the time it was illegal for them to employ me so I couldn't complain (16 being the minimum age) but I saw my first ever £20 pound note - I'd got Christmas tips worth £13 a couple of years before when I was a paper girl which I thought was the pinnacle of wealth but I'd never seen this before, so we were both happy.

 

You Southerners do not know how good you had it. You had a Kiosk ..................

 

When I was 10 or 11 my Saturday job was on the local Golf Course as a 'caddy', it was a bit like the slave-market. The kids would be allowed to sit all lined up on a wooden bench outside the Pro shop. The Golfers would pay their green fees and then come and walk along the bench and select their caddy for the day - we would then walk about 5 miles carrying a 50+ lb bag of golf clubs and 'gear' all for the princely sum of (normally) 5/- It would take around 4-5 hours depending on the golfers standard, but I was once given 7/6 - a fortune.

 

So at about 1/- an hour (5p) for 'hard labour' you can understand why the Southerners sitting in a warm kiosk we thought to not only be rich, but 'Softies' as well.

[Alan de Enfield]

The Skys the limit ...................

 

Petrol prices set to ease after hitting record highs - BBC News

 

UK petrol prices could hit £2.50 a litre and diesel £3, experts tell MPs | Petrol prices | The Guardian

 

Petrol to hit £2.50 per litre and diesel £3, experts warn MPs (yahoo.com)

 

MPs were told this was a "lull before the storm" of more price hikes.

Nathan Piper, head of oil and gas research at financial services company Investec, said consumers "need to get ready for what could be continued increases in fuel prices."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine sparked oil costs to surge worldwide.

Mr Piper told the Treasury Committee: "If more stringent actions are imposed upon Russia, and five million barrels a day is truly taken out of the market, then oil prices would really have no ceiling."

He explained that the UK was roughly self-sufficient in petrol but imported much of its diesel.

Two thirds of UK consumers use diesel so that it could see the biggest price increases at the pump, he said.

'£3 per litre possible'

Dr Amrita Sen, director of research at Energy Aspects, told the committee that petrol prices could rise to around £2.40 a litre. And that diesel prices of "£2.50 - even closer to £3" were "definitely in the realms of possibility".

She said the UK could follow Germany in introducing rationing measures which have already seen BP and Shell reduce diesel wholesales to industry.

"If we need to rebuild stocks over the summer so that we have a buffer over the winter...it is industry that will need to be curtailed and that's where the first set of rationing will have to come in," she said.

Mr Piper said the only other option was for the government to release some of its stockpiles of petrol and crude oil.

"But it'll be industry that takes the brunt of any rationing initially," he said.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[frangar]

Another go by the Biased Bullsh*t Corporation to whip up some fear and ensure panic buying. Thought they had been slow off the mark this time after being solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, frangar said:

Another go by the Biased Bullsh*t Corporation to whip up some fear and ensure panic buying. Thought they had been slow off the mark this time after being solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying. 

 

Its a bit like their reporting on the pandemic in the early days were they would jump on the worse case scenario forecasts by the scientists and present them as if that was actually the most likely outcome.

 

For me they lost a huge amount of credibility once they started doing that.

[frangar]

15 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Its a bit like their reporting on the pandemic in the early days were they would jump on the worse case scenario forecasts by the scientists and present them as if that was actually the most likely outcome.

 

For me they lost a huge amount of credibility once they started doing that.

They are no better than GB news these days. I actually find ITV to have much better coverage of most events. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

You can be immune to fuel price rises by putting exactly ten pounds worth in your vehicle each visit to the pumps. As long as you can still get to the next station before running out, all is well.

Get that smug feeling when the person behind you in the queue for the till is waiting to give their card a hammering and you place a crisp tenner in the cashiers hand. The same amount as you did five years ago. The only change you've seen is that the note is now plastic, rather than paper and you see the cashier more often than your spouse. 😀

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Tony1]

 

If there is a major diesel shortage, and if that includes marina pumps and fuel boats, then the hire boat industry could be hit hard again, because the hirers probably use loads of fuel in covering as many miles as possible during their holiday. 

If it gets properly serious (which I dont think will happen personally), CRT may have to accept lack of fuel as a reason to allow some boats to stay moored for longer than normal. 

If the CC/mooring rules do get relaxed, I can see the wily continuous moorers heading for places like Nantwich and Chester basin, and then emailing CRT to announce they've tragically run out of fuel and will have to stay on this 48 hour mooring until hell freezes over. 

I cant imagine how evidence could be provided for CRT that the CCer was unable to get fuel, and how CRT would manage and enforce a relaxation of rules based on lack of fuel. 

But the bigger question would be: how would CCing boats refill water tanks and pump out, if they cant move? 

It does encourage idle speculation about where might be a nice spot to get marooned for the Spring/Summer, if the worst happens and I cant get fuel.

My theoretical 4 month Spring/Summer mooring location would have a pleasant view, a decent/dry/smoothish towpath, maybe half a mile/one mile from some decent shops and facilities, but not too busy with dog walkers, and the ability to drag the boat a hundred yards or so to where it is overshadowed by trees, for when the heatwaves start in June. 

And the biggest one- CRT facilities within a few hundred yards. 

There is probably enough diesel in moored boats now to see them through a few weeks cruising (the diesel CH users might run out sooner), but you imagine people will be a bit circumspect about how often and how far they cruise, when their next fuel fill up is not 100% guaranteed. 

 

Perhaps  the canals will descend into a Mad Max style post-apocalyptic chaos where wild-eyed septuagenarians kill each other with crossbows for a few litres of fuel. Chester basin would have to be renamed the Thunder Dome.

If it means Tina Turner making a comeback in those unfeasible leather outfits, I cant say I'm 100% in favour.  

The other potential scenario is it turns into a hunger games situation, except we would have to call it the Diesel Games, and everybody would be over 55. Even me. 

I'm off to the army surplus shop to get me some camo and a machete. 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Tony1

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Boat afloat said:

Does anyone have any real-life experience of finding diesel on the canal network right now? We are due to set off from Oxford to the Leeds Liverpool in the next week and am starting to get anxious of fuel shortage issues.

 

We have about 40% of a tank...which I presume would be a 200 litre tank? It's a long way so will definitely need more but are we going to find it an issue maybe?

 

Can anyone recommend a reliable way of tracking fuel boats and their movements? I've being doing some research but it seems a touch hit and miss though.

Are you on Facebook, several of them post there

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Skys the limit ...................

 

Petrol prices set to ease after hitting record highs - BBC News

 

UK petrol prices could hit £2.50 a litre and diesel £3, experts tell MPs | Petrol prices | The Guardian

 

Petrol to hit £2.50 per litre and diesel £3, experts warn MPs (yahoo.com)

 

MPs were told this was a "lull before the storm" of more price hikes.

Nathan Piper, head of oil and gas research at financial services company Investec, said consumers "need to get ready for what could be continued increases in fuel prices."

Russia's invasion of Ukraine sparked oil costs to surge worldwide.

Mr Piper told the Treasury Committee: "If more stringent actions are imposed upon Russia, and five million barrels a day is truly taken out of the market, then oil prices would really have no ceiling."

He explained that the UK was roughly self-sufficient in petrol but imported much of its diesel.

Two thirds of UK consumers use diesel so that it could see the biggest price increases at the pump, he said.

'£3 per litre possible'

Dr Amrita Sen, director of research at Energy Aspects, told the committee that petrol prices could rise to around £2.40 a litre. And that diesel prices of "£2.50 - even closer to £3" were "definitely in the realms of possibility".

She said the UK could follow Germany in introducing rationing measures which have already seen BP and Shell reduce diesel wholesales to industry.

"If we need to rebuild stocks over the summer so that we have a buffer over the winter...it is industry that will need to be curtailed and that's where the first set of rationing will have to come in," she said.

Mr Piper said the only other option was for the government to release some of its stockpiles of petrol and crude oil.

"But it'll be industry that takes the brunt of any rationing initially," he said.

Crude oil is below $100 at the moment, haven't you seen the prices falling every hour at the pumps?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

 

Crude oil is below $100 at the moment, haven't you seen the prices falling every hour at the pumps?

 

Hence the post headline "Fuel Prices Easing"

 

Followed by the release of information from the discussions in the Treasury Committee about the short term future, they are considering doing as Germany have done  (introduced rationing).

[Boat afloat]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are you on Facebook, several of them post there

 

 

No but the Mrs sort of is and I suspect we will have to become semi-Facebookers if we want (need) that sort of info, which I think we do...

 

Suppose a couple of Jerry cans of very expensive fuel station diesel dumped into the boat tank is the painful answer at least in the short-ish term.  😪

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Boat afloat said:

Does anyone have any real-life experience of finding diesel on the canal network right now? We are due to set off from Oxford to the Leeds Liverpool in the next week and am starting to get anxious of fuel shortage issues.

 

We have about 40% of a tank...which I presume would be a 200 litre tank? It's a long way so will definitely need more but are we going to find it an issue maybe?

 

Can anyone recommend a reliable way of tracking fuel boats and their movements? I've being doing some research but it seems a touch hit and miss though.

 I have not heard of any shortages so far but you could just ring ahead. The places I would look for fuel would be Dunchurch Pools   01788 247290,  Fuel Boat Auriga (2) Rick Cooper | Facebook  Alvecote Marina 01827 898585, Fazeley Mill 01827 261138 (slight diversion but normally a lot cheaper) Fuel boat Halsall (2) Fuel boat Halsall - Four Counties Fuels Ltd. | Facebook. Thorne Marine on the Bridgewater 01925 265129 

All the above sell diesel at a reasonable cost.

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by ditchcrawler

[Slow and Steady]

40 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

But the bigger question would be: how would CCing boats refill water tanks and pump out, if they cant move? 

The bigger question, as most only move as little as possible, is how will they charge their batteries if they don't have solar?

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

But the bigger question would be: how would CCing boats refill water tanks and pump out, if they cant move? 

 

It's an interesting question, which rather pre-supposes there is a god-given right to live on a boat. 

 

Local councils sometimes take an interest in sub-standard accommodation (i.e. accommodation without a working toilet, heating or hot water supply) and I believe have the authority to intervene and stop it, although I'm not sure how. 

 

So should a fuel shortage on the cut become long term and widespread, I can imagine liveaboards being turfed out of their unhygienic boats if they play the 'can't move' card too hard. 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

It's an interesting question, which rather pre-supposes there is a god-given right to live on a boat. 

 

Local councils sometimes take an interest in sub-standard accommodation (i.e. accommodation without a working toilet, heating or hot water supply) and I believe have the authority to intervene and stop it, although I'm not sure how. 

 

So should a fuel shortage on the cut become long term and widespread, I can imagine liveaboards being turfed out of their unhygienic boats if they play the 'can't move' card too hard. 

 

I wonder if I can find a horse on ebay?

 

There's probably a harness already knocking about in the 'sports and entertainment' cupboard.

That's me sorted for the fuel apocalypse.

 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I wonder if I can find a horse on ebay?

 

There's probably a harness already knocking about in the 'sports and entertainment' cupboard.

That's me sorted for the fuel apocalypse.

 

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231402752671?hash=item35e0adca9f:g:kBQAAOSwkNZUdKSF

 

 

 

 

 

Amusing to note they have 'detachable ears', to help with fitting the 'bridal' (sic)!

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231402752671?hash=item35e0adca9f:g:kBQAAOSwkNZUdKSF

 

 

 

 

Certainly the feed bills will be low.

I'm no equine specialist, but I'm sensing a possible lack of enthusiasm for towing.

 

 

 

[Boat afloat]

35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 I have not heard of any shortages so far but you could just ring ahead. The places I would look for fuel would be Dunchurch Pools   01788 247290,  Fuel Boat Auriga (2) Rick Cooper | Facebook  Alvecote Marina 01827 898585, Fazeley Mill 01827 261138 (slight diversion but normally a lot cheaper) Fuel boat Halsall (2) Fuel boat Halsall - Four Counties Fuels Ltd. | Facebook. Thorne Marine on the Bridgewater 01925 265129 

All the above sell diesel at a reasonable cost.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for those. Will take a look and see which might be knocking about our route (and will likely still have fuel to sell us)

[David Mack]

55 minutes ago, MtB said:

Local councils sometimes take an interest in sub-standard accommodation (i.e. accommodation without a working toilet, heating or hot water supply) and I believe have the authority to intervene and stop it, although I'm not sure how. 

But not the money, so I imagine most councils are not going to go looking for the problem unless the boat dweller is already on their social services radar as vulnerable. And if a vulnerable boater has moved from one authority's area, where he/she is known to social services, to another area, I can see both authorities looking the other way.

Councils do have enforcement powers for rented housing, but I don't think they can do much for owner occupiers, as most boat dwellers are.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Councils do have enforcement powers for rented housing, but I don't think they can do much for owner occupiers, as most boat dwellers are.

 

In a marina we were in for some time, was an elderly couple (OAP+). He had a stroke and when he came out of hospital he returned to the boat, he managed to get on and off with a small amount of help, and other boaters took his boat for fuel, and pump-out.

The Council 'home-care' visited regurarly but after a couple of months told him that unless they moved into 'sheltered accomodation' all his benefits, visits etc would be stopped.

 

A couple of weeks later they agreed and the council moved them into a 'sheltered accomodation' bungalow in a village, They eventually (about a year later) realised that they would not be coming back on board so I sold the boat for them.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[frahkn]

3 hours ago, frangar said:

Another go by the Biased Bullsh*t Corporation to whip up some fear and ensure panic buying. Thought they had been slow off the mark this time after being solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying. 

Surely the people "solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying" were those who went out and made the panic purchases? Or are we no longer responsible for our own actions?

[peterboat]

13 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I can only find info. on work being carried out next month on the centre span of Breydon bridge (A47). The side spans are still open to navigation but these are the ones you use anyway. So navigation to the Southern broads would appear to be open.

Its Yarmouth yacht station that is closed until the end of the month Martin 

[frangar]

15 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Surely the people "solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying" were those who went out and made the panic purchases? Or are we no longer responsible for our own actions?

You think the media creating a frenzy wasn’t part of the problem?? 

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

You think the media creating a frenzy wasn’t part of the problem?? 

Part of The Problem and Solely Responsible aren't the same thing.

[David Schweizer]

13 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Surely the people "solely responsible for the last lot of panic buying" were those who went out and made the panic purchases? Or are we no longer responsible for our own actions?

 

Almost certainly. During the last panic we were on a 200 mile trip from Wiltshire to the Peak District via Osgathorpe. There were long queues at the petrol stations we passed, but when we arrived in Buxton, we drove straight into an Esso/Tesco garage on the edge of town, and filled up at normal supermarket price.