Aire and Calder - Fish v Barges

[magpie patrick]

Has anyone else seen this and is it posted elsewhere? I couldn't find it on the forum

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/barges-banned-on-canal-over-concerns-about-rising-fish-deaths-3535562

 

I found it following a discussion on tuna appearing in the ship canal. 

 

This is a bit concerning, not just because I like my canals with boats on, but several times in my career I've found that attempts to tackle global environmental issues fall foul of local ones - one report on the above cites fishermen stating the cargo should be on the roads!

Thoughts anyone?

Edited January 23, 2022 by magpie patrick

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Has anyone else seen this and is it posted elsewhere? I couldn't find it on the forum

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/barges-banned-on-canal-over-concerns-about-rising-fish-deaths-3535562

 

I found it following a discussion on tuna appearing in the ship canal. 

 

This is a bit concerning, not just because I like my canals with boats on, but several times in my career I've found that attempts to tackle global environmental issues fall foul of local ones - one report on the above cites fishermen stating the cargo should be on the roads!

Thoughts anyone?

 

Yes I remember it being mentioned on here when concerns were first raised by the anglers.

 

There is a thread about it somewhere. And it got quite heated if I remember correctly.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

So how are they dying? Macerated through the prop? Squished between the hull and the canal bed? Some weird pressure change thing as the barge passes? Pollution from anti foul? Is this real, or just fish botherers being grumpy?

[Guest]

Just now, Jen-in-Wellies said:

So how are they dying? Macerated through the prop? Squished between the hull and the canal bed? Some weird pressure change thing as the barge passes? Pollution from anti foul? Is this real, or just fish botherers being grumpy?

 

There were a number of theories last time including being killed by the prop as you say, and fishing persons being difficult and selfish.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Insanity. There wouldnt be any fish there whatsoever if the commercial canal hadnt been built. I suggest that the eejut angling societies take over the entire maintenance of the canal if they want it for sole use.I bet they would soon whinge if they had to start paying those kinds of bills instead of twopence halfpenny to go fishing.

[haggis]

I know that many on here don't use facebook but there was a post on the NABO page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/26001922752 about it. It included the letter sent by the maggot danglers to C&RT and Parrys reply.  Well worth a read if you can.

[Guest]

Some stuff from the Maggot Drowning Trust,

 

https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/16/fish-kills-on-the-aire-and-calder/?fbclid=IwAR1ZKOKIXQEhaPUeRTkETEUsO1y9S-El_5A1BeEdp8wQznUyWIryGVd1esk

[haggis]

From the NABO FB page

For those who haven't read the preposterous piece from The Angling Trust that as a consequence CRT have stopped freight movements on the Aire and Calder Canal, here's a flavour:

”The carnage that is occurring now is the result of an ill-conceived idea by a green venture programme to keep lorries off the road and use antiquated, polluting, oil burning mega barges on a precious fish-rich area for the task of transporting aggregate. Because of the extent of this carnage killing flora and fauna, this self-defeating operation must be stopped immediately.”

 

I am sure I read the whole letter somewhere but can't find it.

 

Allen Richards posted a copy of Parrys reply. perhaps you could do that here, Allen?

 

[Alan de Enfield]

In the next PC re-write of history all mention of boats and boating will be removed from the history of the waterways - these quiet waterways were built for the leisure of the working classes to get some fresh air whilst sitting or walking alongside the waterway and a time to contemplate the Goddess Thunderberg.

A 'breathe of fresh air, after working 25 hours a day, 8 days per week "In't Mills",

 

Statues of Rolt, and Barbara Castle et al will be pulled down and defaced eventually being melted down and made into a BEV.

[magpie patrick]

For clarity, here is a picture of the Tuna that is being discussed on the Ship canal 

 

Some on the ship canal group were having fun with this and the ban on the Aire and Calder

Edited January 23, 2022 by magpie patrick

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, magpie patrick said:

For clarity, here is a picture of the Tuna that is being discussed on the Ship canal 

 

Ah, a can of tuna.  I was expecting a big fish ...

[David Mack]

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Ah, a can of tuna. 

 

A young sardine saw her first submarine,

She was scared, as she looked through a peephole,

Oh "Come, come, come" said the sardine's mum,

"It's only a tin full of people!"

 

Spike Milligan

 

[Ray T]

55 minutes ago, haggis said:

 

 

Allen Richards posted a copy of Parrys reply. perhaps you could do that here, Allen?

 

https://anglingtrust.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Jamie-Cook-Angling-Trust-AC-letter-Dec-21.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2N63qUkdWP4qjp58F58wrnaH9YmZuZqKKHOHM_EKT1OayajtIekiOHxMg

Edited January 23, 2022 by Ray T

[enigmatic]

Local chap I spoke to was more concerned about them scraping the lock cills. Reckoned they loaded them more than the original commercial barges.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

On 23/01/2022 at 12:17, haggis said:

From the NABO FB page

For those who haven't read the preposterous piece from The Angling Trust that as a consequence CRT have stopped freight movements on the Aire and Calder Canal, here's a flavour:

”The carnage that is occurring now is the result of an ill-conceived idea by a green venture programme to keep lorries off the road and use antiquated, polluting, oil burning mega barges on a precious fish-rich area for the task of transporting aggregate. Because of the extent of this carnage killing flora and fauna, this self-defeating operation must be stopped immediately.”

 

I am sure I read the whole letter somewhere but can't find it.

 

Allen Richards posted a copy of Parrys reply. perhaps you could do that here, Allen?

 

It was probably me started the discussion on Facebook when I posted a link  to a CRT press release dated 18 January -
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/45204-18-jan-2022-canal-charity-investigates-fish-deaths-on-aire-calder-navigation.pdf

Ray T has already provided the "Parry reply" link Anne asked for.

Here is what the Angling Trust has posted on its website -

 

16 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/16/fish-kills-on-the-aire-and-calder/?fbclid=IwAR1ZKOKIXQEhaPUeRTkETEUsO1y9S-El_5A1BeEdp8wQznUyWIryGVd1esk
22 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/22/canal-and-rivers-trust-fail-to-halt-fish-kills-on-the-aire-and-calder/

24 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/24/angling-trust-welcome-ceos-assurances-over-barge-restrictions-on-the-aire-and-calder/
20 January -    https://anglingtrust.net/2022/01/20/canal-river-trust-suspend-fish-mincing-barge/

 

The Commercial Boat Owners Association appears not to have commented. Neither have the two Angling Clubs involved.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Lunacy - talk about putting words into C&RTs mouth.

 

 

We welcome this confirmation from the Canal & River Trust that it is the barge that is responsible for the fish deaths. Local anglers and the Angling Trust have been saying so for over a year, and we were right.

 

I wonder, are the fish deaths along the whole length where the commercial barge(s) operate, or is it just a short 'local' stretch ?

Could it be something in the mud ?

 

I cannot imagine that the barge(s) creeps up on the fish without giving them chance to escape the ‘fish mincing barge', it is, after all not a narrow very shallow canal, it is a commercial waterway - surely, plenty of room for the fish to escape the 'mincer'.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[matty40s]

41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wonder, are the fish deaths along the whole length where the commercial barge(s) operate, or is it just a short 'local' stretch ?

Could it be something in the mud ?

 

 

No, just a short stretch of fish specially bred with a suicide gene.

MrParry gives quite a lucid explanation and yes, it suggests it is a local silt problem that is leading to the fish being sliced up.

[Tim Lewis]

Deleted 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Tim Lewis
Wrong topic

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Perhaps existence for fish is so depressing in Knottingley they are deliberately throwing themselves in to the barge prop?

[BWM]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Lunacy - talk about putting words into C&RTs mouth.

 

 

We welcome this confirmation from the Canal & River Trust that it is the barge that is responsible for the fish deaths. Local anglers and the Angling Trust have been saying so for over a year, and we were right.

 

I wonder, are the fish deaths along the whole length where the commercial barge(s) operate, or is it just a short 'local' stretch ?

Could it be something in the mud ?

 

I cannot imagine that the barge(s) creeps up on the fish without giving them chance to escape the ‘fish mincing barge', it is, after all not a narrow very shallow canal, it is a commercial waterway - surely, plenty of room for the fish to escape the 'mincer'.

I have seen a couple of articles about this and got the impression that a relatively short, narrower stretch was the problem area and suspect this in combination with hull size/shape, tubed prop? is responsible. A short video accompanying an article showed a smaller craft travelling with the barge containing multiple netsmen picking up the chopped fish around the barge, quite an absurd sight.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

28 minutes ago, BWM said:

I have seen a couple of articles about this and got the impression that a relatively short, narrower stretch was the problem area and suspect this in combination with hull size/shape, tubed prop? is responsible. A short video accompanying an article showed a smaller craft travelling with the barge containing multiple netsmen picking up the chopped fish around the barge, quite an absurd sight.

There are other spots in S Yorkshire where large commercial boats have been going through similarly sized, or narrower sections of canal for years without this being noticeable. The Went and Don aqueducts on the New Junction give almost no escape from the mincer when an oil tanker goes through, but I don't recall this being a problem. Is the hull and prop design of the sand barges significantly different?

Perhaps we should go back to the days when all boat traffic through Knottingley was commercial and the waterways were so polluted that any fish in the canal would instantly dissolve!

[Iain_S]

5 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Local chap I spoke to was more concerned about them scraping the lock cills. Reckoned they loaded them more than the original commercial barges.

My understanding was that the barges were unable to load fully, due to lack of dredging, The one in the video in one of Allan(nb Albert)'s links certainly doesn;t look tp be loaded to capacity.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

10 hours ago, Iain_S said:

My understanding was that the barges were unable to load fully, due to lack of dredging, The one in the video in one of Allan(nb Albert)'s links certainly doesn;t look tp be loaded to capacity.

My understanding also.

Below are the Transport Act 1968 "statutory dimensions" for the Aire & Calder.

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

17 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Perhaps existence for fish is so depressing in Knottingley they are deliberately throwing themselves in to the barge prop?

Knottingley, is a grade one shit hole.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

40 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Knottingley, is a grade one shit hole.

I was hoping that under water it would all be different and sub-surface Knottingley was an aquatic paradise. If the fish prefer hurling themselves in to spinning propellers, to living there, then not so.