Inverter question...

[robtheplod]

Hi All

 

My current invertor - PowerMaster Pure Sine Invertor DE-1800L-12 is very big and little used and I need to free up some space in my cupboard (it is 1800W). I'm looking around tentatively at combining battery charger with a invertor and have my eye on this:

Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/1600/70-16 VE.Bus - PMP122160000 – Battery Megastore

 

My only concern is that its output is very close to the Washing Machine on the boat (its a new one but we've yet to use it - although do plan to). Is this likely to be an issue as i know with types of appliances their startup spike can exceed the invertor (???). It says it has a peak power of 2800w but not sure how much weight to give this?  We wouldn't really be running much else from the invertor as pretty much everything else is 12v apart from maybe a laptop charger and rechargeable vac. Washing machine details are below.... would this work?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

The majority of that 155W will be the heater element that does not cause a starting surge like motors do so I suspect you will be OK but don't take this as gospel.

[GUMPY]

As with  all washing machine / inverter choices only trying it will tell whether it works or not.

I have the older model Multiplus and on paper it should run my machine but it won't do a complete cycle including spin. I have to do a wash and rinse. Then do the spin as a separate program. I have no idea why.

 

Note that the Victron is 1600va that is 1300 watts 

 

[nicknorman]

30 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

 

My current invertor - PowerMaster Pure Sine Invertor DE-1800L-12 is very big and little used and I need to free up some space in my cupboard (it is 1800W). I'm looking around tentatively at combining battery charger with a invertor and have my eye on this:

Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/1600/70-16 VE.Bus - PMP122160000 – Battery Megastore

 

My only concern is that its output is very close to the Washing Machine on the boat (its a new one but we've yet to use it - although do plan to). Is this likely to be an issue as i know with types of appliances their startup spike can exceed the invertor (???). It says it has a peak power of 2800w but not sure how much weight to give this?  We wouldn't really be running much else from the invertor as pretty much everything else is 12v apart from maybe a laptop charger and rechargeable vac. Washing machine details are below.... would this work?

 

 

I suspect it won’t work on a heated wash because if you read the Victron spec carefully it say 1600va. Probably it can only output 1600va at a non-unity power factor, whereas the washing machine heater will present a unity power factor (resistive load). Probably the continuous power in watts is closer to 1300.

 

[matty40s]

Disable the heater element, and run it off the hot water when your engine is running.

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Disable the heater element, and run it off the hot water when your engine is running.

We have a washing machine that is plumbed into the hot pipe. We have to do our washing in the morning. As the thermal shock in the evening shrinks the clothing

[TheBiscuits]

22 minutes ago, Tonka said:

We have a washing machine that is plumbed into the hot pipe. We have to do our washing in the morning. As the thermal shock in the evening shrinks the clothing

 

I fitted an adjustable mixer valve with a cold only bypass to mine.  Twist the mixer to the desired wash temperature and leave it to it, then (optionally) flick the bypass switch before the rinse cycle.  Works well.

 

I think one of our members has a complicated device that does this electronically but I can't remember who it is.

 

 

Edit to add: 

It's @MoominPapa

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by TheBiscuits

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I think one of our members has a complicated device that does this electronically but I can't remember who it is.

Possibly @nicknorman 😉

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Possibly @nicknorman 😉

No not me, we have adequate electrical power to run the washing machine heater.

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No not me, we have adequate electrical power to run the washing machine heater.

I was thinking that as it's an electronic gadget.................. whether you have enough power or not wouldn't matter.😎

[robtheplod]

50 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Disable the heater element, and run it off the hot water when your engine is running.

I presume this would generally reduce its consumption significantly, but wouldn't the washing machine throw a fault?

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

As with  all washing machine / inverter choices only trying it will tell whether it works or not.

I have the older model Multiplus and on paper it should run my machine but it won't do a complete cycle including spin. I have to do a wash and rinse. Then do the spin as a separate program. I have no idea why.

 

Note that the Victron is 1600va that is 1300 watts 

 

Have you tried having a small light bulb on at the same time? This is a known  problem with Zanussi  washers, the inverter goes to sleep whilst waiting for the spin cycle to commence, there is a pause in the program.

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Have you tried having a small light bulb on at the same time? This is a known  problem with Zanussi  washers, the inverter goes to sleep whilst waiting for the spin cycle to commence, there is a pause in the program.

Yes, I have also taken the inverter out if search mode so it's fully on all the time and it's not a Zanussi 😷

 

[steve hayes]

We have a Thermostatic Mixing Valve (TMV) that is set to supply the washing machine cold fill with water at 42deg C. With the machine on a 40 degree wash the inverter is hardly bothered and with the wash rinsed in warm water they dry much quicker as well.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-peg402-tmv-15mm/96288
 

[robtheplod]

5 minutes ago, steve hayes said:

We have a Thermostatic Mixing Valve (TMV) that is set to supply the washing machine cold fill with water at 42deg C. With the machine on a 40 degree wash the inverter is hardly bothered and with the wash rinsed in warm water they dry much quicker as well.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-peg402-tmv-15mm/96288
 

very interesting thanks!!

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, steve hayes said:

We have a Thermostatic Mixing Valve (TMV) that is set to supply the washing machine cold fill with water at 42deg C. With the machine on a 40 degree wash the inverter is hardly bothered and with the wash rinsed in warm water they dry much quicker as well.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-peg402-tmv-15mm/96288
 

Been using the same system for over 25 years on various boats. An 1800w inverter copes with the 1600w load of the washer, usually a small Zanussi without disconnecting the element.

 

 

[MtB]

Washing machines? Pah...!

 

Just buy new clothes after a few months once the old ones are dirty. 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

Washing machines? Pah...!

 

Just buy new clothes after a few months once the old ones are dirty. 

Nah, you're nothing like Reacher.

[blackrose]

Ripping out a perfectly good inverter and replacing it with a new one just so you can free up some cupboard space seems a bit drastic and disproportionate to me. How much space are you actually going to save?

Edited December 5, 2021 by blackrose

[Richard10002]

7 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Hi All

 

My current invertor - PowerMaster Pure Sine Invertor DE-1800L-12 is very big and little used and I need to free up some space in my cupboard (it is 1800W). I'm looking around tentatively at combining battery charger with a invertor and have my eye on this:

Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/1600/70-16 VE.Bus - PMP122160000 – Battery Megastore

 

My only concern is that its output is very close to the Washing Machine on the boat (its a new one but we've yet to use it - although do plan to). Is this likely to be an issue as i know with types of appliances their startup spike can exceed the invertor (???). It says it has a peak power of 2800w but not sure how much weight to give this?  We wouldn't really be running much else from the invertor as pretty much everything else is 12v apart from maybe a laptop charger and rechargeable vac. Washing machine details are below.... would this work?

 

 

Have you tried the washer on the existing inverter. If it works, it might be better off keeping it, along with your existing charger, and finding cupboard space elsewhere?

 

Given that you are actually freeing up the space used by the charger, why not look at moving the charger somewhere else?

[robtheplod]

32 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Have you tried the washer on the existing inverter. If it works, it might be better off keeping it, along with your existing charger, and finding cupboard space elsewhere?

 

Given that you are actually freeing up the space used by the charger, why not look at moving the charger somewhere else?

they're both not easy to get at currently but take your point..

[Tracy D'arth]

Better with two separates, when one goes wrong the other will still work. With a combined unit, its chuck it all out and start again when it fails, and it will eventually at the worst possible moment.  Big bills.

[nicknorman]

32 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Better with two separates, when one goes wrong the other will still work. With a combined unit, its chuck it all out and start again when it fails, and it will eventually at the worst possible moment.  Big bills.

So people routinely say on here. It's like some kind of monk chanting based on a spiritual belief and mostly from people who have never actually had a combi. What they don't mention is that there are a lot of advantages to having a Combi.

And the logic is flawed - if you are on shore power you don't need the inverter bit. And if you are not on shore power you don't need the charger bit. And it is not necessarily the case that if one bit stops working so does the other bit. And they are repairable (sometimes).

So in reality it isn't such a big deal, and over the expected mtbf of 10-20 years there is plenty of time to enjoy the advantages. If/when our Combi fails, you can be certain that it will be replaced by another combi.

Edited December 5, 2021 by nicknorman

[Slim]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Nah, you're nothing like Reacher.

Be fair, he buys new clothes more frequently than every few months.

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, Slim said:

Be fair, he buys new clothes more frequently than every few months.

But it can take me a long while to read a book so it seems to be longer!  Are you a committed reader too?