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52 minutes ago, haggis said:

Ah, I understand.  the regulators for calor gas  and flo gas are  different  so that is probably why you lost the gas. I use Flo gas in my caravan and I remember having to change the regulator and I found that I not only needed a different one from calor but  I had to get the right one for the size and type of flo gas I was using. 

 

Haggis

Yeah, but ... the caravan has Butane, with push on regulators. They are a bit of a nightmare, coming in different, and very similar sizes; 20 and 22mm, IIRC Had to change them when changed from Calor to Flogas. 

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AIUI the industry standard for Propane (vapour take off) is known as a "Left Hand POL" - POL = Prest-O-Lite, the original manufacturers of the valves. This fitting is also used on most other vapour-take-off fuel gases such as acetylene and hydrogen.  Non fuel gases supplied in bottles have the same fitting but with a right hand thread - oxygen, nitrogen, argon mixtures for welding etc. This is a cone seat fitting and relies on a metal to metal joint, unlike what was the standard "domestic" fitting on butane bottles which relied on a male thread on the bottle and a rubber washer. This was standard across bottled gases until the advent of snap lock fittings when the different companies realised that by using a snap fitting regulator of an individual size for that company they could more effectively "tie in" their customers (cynic hat on). I suspect that the potential leaks from a butane regulator fitted with the washer missing also prompted the change when mobile gas heaters (calor super ser etc) became common. This practice seems to continue to spread - many mig welding gases now come with company specific fittings, though arguably safer - the fitting is either on or not - it can not be inadequately tightened.

 

springy 

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7 minutes ago, springy said:

AIUI the industry standard for Propane (vapour take off) is known as a "Left Hand POL" - POL = Prest-O-Lite,

 

Yes all (UK) propane cylinders from the 3.9kg to the 47kg from all manufacturers have the same POL fitting.

If travelling abroard you will need different regulators.

 

 

From the FloGas website :

 

A variety of pressure regulators or hose assemblies can be connected to the cylinder valve, but the regulator connection is the same – UK POL 5/8” LH male. First, ensure the POL thread is clean and undamaged and then offer up to the cylinder valve.

 

Some will argue they are not the same, because they had one leak.

It is not unknown to get a cylinder that has the valve damaged, or even to get a spec of grit on your regulator 'cone' that means you don't get a perfect seal.

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Ok, sorry I was wrong about regulators being different for different makes. The caravan regulator and cylinder fittings are obviously different from the ones used on boats and never having had anything to do with changing gas on the boat I didn't know that! Lady g s leaking gas was probably caused by a poor connection and was hopefully a "one off".

 

haggis 

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This page 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane,_butane,_and_LPG_container_valve_connections

 

has a table which lists 11 different sized "Quick Couplings" from 16 mm to 35 mm. including 20, 21, 21.7 and 22 mm !

 

It also has three LH-POL standards - two appear identical and the third (UK) is functionally compatible but specified as 5/8 - 14 TPI BSP thread form rather than NGO (National Gas Outlet - american NPT family thread). In theory an american spec regulator POL would be very slightly looser in a UK valve but within thread tolerances and the seal is on the cone seat not the thread.

 

Also "patio gas" is propane but in bottles with a company specific Quick Coupling.

 

springy 

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54 minutes ago, haggis said:

Ok, sorry I was wrong about regulators being different for different makes. The caravan regulator and cylinder fittings are obviously different from the ones used on boats and never having had anything to do with changing gas on the boat I didn't know that! Lady g s leaking gas was probably caused by a poor connection and was hopefully a "one off".

 

haggis 

I am unable to get a good gas spanner today, those cheapo calor keys are just useless, when combined with worn brass nut and the design of the cylinder collar which means you can't get a decent grip to turn the nut. .

I am going to try the current gas connection later with the leak detecting fluid, which is showing no activity at the moment, but I am not convinced I have it tight, the spanner is useless and I can't get a proper quality one for a few days, anyway, I'm going to order a wheel type tightening regulator, they should be easier to use, maybe. 

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11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm going to order a wheel type tightening regulator, they should be easier to use, maybe. 

 

I wouldn't rely on one of those, you cannot get them tight enought to qualify as 'nipped up'.

We had them on the beer gasses (60/40, CO2 etc) and if you did manage to get them tight you couldn't get enough grip to loosed them.

The plastic 'hand-nut' allows you to hand tighten, then slide the nut off and finish with a spanner - reverse the process for removal.

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36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wouldn't rely on one of those, you cannot get them tight enought to qualify as 'nipped up'.

We had them on the beer gasses (60/40, CO2 etc) and if you did manage to get them tight you couldn't get enough grip to loosed them.

The plastic 'hand-nut' allows you to hand tighten, then slide the nut off and finish with a spanner - reverse the process for removal.

I had a 30mm ring spanner that I turned into a flange spanner with the help of a grinder.

Edited by ditchcrawler
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1 hour ago, haggis said:

Ok, sorry I was wrong about regulators being different for different makes. The caravan regulator and cylinder fittings are obviously different from the ones used on boats and never having had anything to do with changing gas on the boat I didn't know that! Lady g s leaking gas was probably caused by a poor connection and was hopefully a "one off".

 

haggis 

 

Since around the mid noughties touring caravan regulators have been mounted on the bulkhead in the gas locker. They then have a 'pigtail' that runs from the regulator to the bottle/valve. We use the hand wheel type pigtail but you can get ones that only use the spanner.

 

So yes you are correct they are very different from boats which tend to use the more 'traditional' regulator that connects directly to the bottle.

 

I'm not sure why boats don't use the same system (Maybe some do??) perhaps somebody on here knows why?

 

 

Regulator.JPG

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I had a rind spanner that I turned into a flange spanner with the help of a grinder.

Yes, well, if I had a butty to fill with handy tools, fine, as it is I have one Stanley hand drill and one craft electric drill, yes I could do with a small electric screwdriver, and a small electric drill, and a good orbital sander, and a wet and dry vac, and.. but I just know that folks with all the tools will normally be quite happy to sort minor things for me. 

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Yes, well, if I had a butty to fill with handy tools, fine, as it is I have one Stanley hand drill and one craft electric drill, yes I could do with a small electric screwdriver, and a small electric drill, and a good orbital sander, and a wet and dry vac, and.. but I just know that folks with all the tools will normally be quite happy to sort minor things for me. 

I have correct my post for spelling now. I didn't suggest you should carry a grinder but I thought you were doing a repaint, they are hand for removing rust. I am sure the folks you know with tools could cut it for you or maybe they could just change your cylinder for you with their spanner

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14 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just don't come round our house, some are handle first some are handle to the front, large knives and folks and small ones, dont mention the spoons

 

The dividers in our (deep) cutlery drawer run side to side, so starting from the front we have spoons... 😉

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have correct my post for spelling now. I didn't suggest you should carry a grinder but I thought you were doing a repaint, they are hand for removing rust. I am sure the folks you know with tools could cut it for you or maybe they could just change your cylinder for you with their spanner

Thanks for that, yes, I managed painting when I was shoreline power, now out on the cut and pretty isolated, I'll try the handwheel type regulator, it seems to easy, too obvious, I'll see how it goes, it's far to dificult to 'nip up' with these cheapo spanners, which, to be honest should never be sold by anyone,never mind  Calor.

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Thanks for that, yes, I managed painting when I was shoreline power, now out on the cut and pretty isolated, I'll try the handwheel type regulator, it seems to easy, too obvious, I'll see how it goes, it's far to dificult to 'nip up' with these cheapo spanners, which, to be honest should never be sold by anyone,never mind  Calor.

For what it's worth I have recently converted to the handwheel type connectors on the propane cylinders for my caravan, and have had no issue with leaks etc.

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20 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

For what it's worth I have recently converted to the handwheel type connectors on the propane cylinders for my caravan, and have had no issue with leaks etc.

 

Ditto. We have used them for years. Just a quick squirt of leak tester if you want to be certain.

 

My current one has a gauge incorporated too.

 

 

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On 10/03/2021 at 21:05, Slim said:

No,left to right Spoons, forks, knives. (right handed) Logic being that I hold forks in my left hand and knives in my right.  

How often do you hold a spoon in your left hand?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

How often do you hold a spoon in your left hand?

When I am carrying them from the draw to the table I pick them up right handed and place them in my left.  The order in the tray doesn't matter.   However they are from left to right Spoons, Forks, Knives.

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9 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes, well, if I had a butty to fill with handy tools, fine, as it is I have one Stanley hand drill and one craft electric drill, yes I could do with a small electric screwdriver, and a small electric drill, and a good orbital sander, and a wet and dry vac, and.. but I just know that folks with all the tools will normally be quite happy to sort minor things for me. 

 

"Folks" meaning men no doubt. That sounds like a typical female approach despite always banging on about being independent. Maybe you can find folks to change your gas bottle too next time if you you're having difficult managing this simple job yourself. 

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39 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

"Folks" meaning men no doubt. That sounds like a typical female approach despite always banging on about being independent. Maybe you can find folks to change your gas bottle too next time if you you're having difficult managing this simple job yourself. 

 

In fairness to LadyG, other women, and men who are not so strong and agile as you seem to be, changing my gas bottle is really difficult, both lifting on and off, and getting down to get the spanner on and turning. Each time I do it, I wonder how many years of gas bottle changing I have left in me :( 

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10 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

In fairness to LadyG, other women, and men who are not so strong and agile as you seem to be, changing my gas bottle is really difficult, both lifting on and off, and getting down to get the spanner on and turning. Each time I do it, I wonder how many years of gas bottle changing I have left in me :( 

 

I vowed if I ever owned another boat there was no way on gods green earth it would have gas bottles in a locker in the bow.

 

They would be in side lockers at the stern just like a hire boat we once hired. Easy to get to, easy to lift out and change.

 

The bow locker would be for storing stuff. Whoever came up with idea of putting gas bottles in there needs to go back to the drawing board, or be forced to endure them being there.

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7 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I vowed if I ever owned another boat there was no way on gods green earth it would have gas bottles in a locker in the bow.

 

They would be in side lockers at the stern just like a hire boat we once hired. Easy to get to, easy to lift out and change.

 

The bow locker would be for storing stuff. Whoever came up with idea of putting gas bottles in there needs to go back to the drawing board, or be forced to endure them being there.

 

I have often thought of getting some draining lockers welded onto the cruiser stern, that could double as seats. Just never go a round tuit. I suppose, if I dont change the boat, (unlikely), I may be forced to get around to it.

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20 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

I have often thought of getting some draining lockers welded onto the cruiser stern, that could double as seats. Just never go a round tuit. I suppose, if I dont change the boat, (unlikely), I may be forced to get around to it.

 

That is basicly what NB Helena from Napton had. Mrs HN is sat on the gas locker. The batteries were in the locker on the other side. Not everybody likes the open cruiser stern and the railings but it could be adapted.

 

 

Screenshot_20210311-233151_Photos.jpg

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