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C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


Alan de Enfield

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2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Still got to manouevre it through the boat from the bathroom to the deck and then onto the bank, and once at the elsan point to lift it up to above the disposal pan/hopper.

Bit like getting into a lock and working it then. Doesn’t seem like that would be hard in comparison.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Won't you also need to do that for the part-composting faeces as well ? (but lift it into a composting bin / wheely bin in lieu of a elsan)

Yes you will, but the post I was responding to was comparing emptying a conventional cassette with emptying a dry toilet's urine bottle. The latter must be easier, as well as less frequent. And if what the dry toileters tell us is true (I've never had one so I don't have direct experience), the emptying of the solids is much less frequent than cassette emptying.

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11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Cassette contains piss + poo + flush water. Urine bottle only contains piss. So inevitably there is less liquid(ish) to dispose of for the dry toileter

But the main attraction is that it's something you can surreptitiously  dump it under a hedge without feeling like a complete tramp - it's never going to be taken to an elsan because the whole point is to be elsan free.

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24 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

they brag about once every three months on this very thread. Ergo they never use an elsan at all,

 

Yes they do, but what they never mention is what happens if four people are using it. I can tell you.....you end up having to empty it every week! 

 

And with four you end up with a full urine container (2 gallons) every 24 hours. Which glugs and splashes all over the place.....no nice air vent valve like a Thetford cassette.

Edited by booke23
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A full toilet cassette weighs about 20kg, which I find very heavy, particularly if the sluice is a distance from the boat: I didn't have a posh one with wheels. Of course one could empty more frequently, but it only lasts a few days as it is.

 

The poo in a separating toilet is almost all water when fresh and the fan which extracts any smell from the heads draws air over the 'deposits', very effectively drying it out over time. Even after two months with two people adding to the 20 litre bucket, it weighs much less than 20kg and probably less than 10kg, although I've never weighed it. Inevitably there'll be some recent poo that hasn't had a chance to dry, which is why one 'should' use a 3 bucket system if you live aboard.

 

It's not difficult to store 2 full 20l buckets on board, after all, what volume was the black water tank that you used to have that you no longer need, mine was 800 litres. You still need to duct away any pongs and allow oxygen into the buckets to stop digestion going anaerobic, so you need a hose and a computer fan to create a small amount of negative pressure; very easy to do if you're a bit handy.

 

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14 hours ago, Midnight said:

It was 😳

 

Of those boaters I know who have compost toilets 100% pour their p*ss into the cut and since the double bagging ban bury their poo on or near the towpath. 

So we have gone back to what we did in the 70's dig a hole in a nearby field, fill it and then cover it over.

That's progress? 😟

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16 minutes ago, Loddon said:

So we have gone back to what we did in the 70's dig a hole in a nearby field, fill it and then cover it over.

That's progress? 😟

 

Except back in the 70s we didn't need a £1,200 composting bog to do it.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Except back in the 70s we didn't need a £1,200 composting bog to do it.

 

 

Separating/composting toilet costings.

 

Wooden toilet seat £20

Lidded 20l bucket £10

Separating inset £50

Computer fan £5

Air ducting £15

Urine bottle £5

 

That's £105, more of course if you long for an oak clad super dooper design, plus a morning's work putting it together: another reason for the increasing popularity I shouldn't wonder.

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1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

IMG_20220522_092042.jpg

 

 

 

 

Go back to the 1600s "Family time".

This is similar to what was in the 'outhouse' of our family home , ours had opening flaps at the front for the 'staff' to access and remove the deposits - no doubt resulting in lovely fresh Rhubarb !

 

 

 

 

 

Privi 3 Seater.png

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12 hours ago, David Mack said:

Still got to manouevre it through the boat from the bathroom to the deck and then onto the bank, and once at the elsan point to lift it up to above the disposal pan/hopper.

 

Which is the main reason we have a pumpout loo, I have enough back problems without that every 3 to 4 days

Edited by ditchcrawler
spilling
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16 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But some don't

Perhaps, rather than speculating on the sins of others, we should hear from the 'separators' on here as to what they do for disposal.

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12 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Perhaps, rather than speculating on the sins of others, we should hear from the 'separators' on here as to what they do for disposal.

 

I agree, but would we get the truth? Especially when an arch promoter of such toilets ignored questions about how the results of things like IBS, Crones, and food poisoning were dealt with. It seems you add more sawdust but how do you clean the spatter without adding more water and possibly disinfectant.

 

Now think about the photo we have just been shown and the materials list given. The time & timber to make that rather fine top and surround - ignored, the varnish for the same - ignored, cabling - ignored, fuse & switch - ignored, cost of vent pipe and fittings - ignored, and housing for computer fan - ignored. Now, I am happy to accept the OP may have had all these to hand so at the time did not cost him anything, but they did cost at some time.  So in my view there is definitely a degree of ignoring unwelcome aspects of such toilets rather than a full and frank discussion.

 

This is not aimed at Peterboat because as far as I can tell he has the facilities and  does the whole thing properly as may the OP, but I have not seen a clear statement about what he does with the separated liquids.

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18 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Perhaps, rather than speculating on the sins of others, we should hear from the 'separators' on here as to what they do for disposal.

 

The few that have answered the question say Urine is tipped in the 'hedge bottom', solids (were) bagged and put in the biffa bins.

 

Even our own muppet (Dr Bob) said that was his plan whilst cruising.

 

 

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4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Except back in the 70s we didn't need a £1,200 composting bog to do it.

 

 

Mine was 400 squids years ago admittedly 

36 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree, but would we get the truth? Especially when an arch promoter of such toilets ignored questions about how the results of things like IBS, Crones, and food poisoning were dealt with. It seems you add more sawdust but how do you clean the spatter without adding more water and possibly disinfectant.

 

Now think about the photo we have just been shown and the materials list given. The time & timber to make that rather fine top and surround - ignored, the varnish for the same - ignored, cabling - ignored, fuse & switch - ignored, cost of vent pipe and fittings - ignored, and housing for computer fan - ignored. Now, I am happy to accept the OP may have had all these to hand so at the time did not cost him anything, but they did cost at some time.  So in my view there is definitely a degree of ignoring unwelcome aspects of such toilets rather than a full and frank discussion.

 

This is not aimed at Peterboat because as far as I can tell he has the facilities and  does the whole thing properly as may the OP, but I have not seen a clear statement about what he does with the separated liquids.

I have said on here that the pee is emptied into my IBCs where its diluted with rain water and used to water the allotment it's a valuable source of nutrients for the plants 

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10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Mine was 400 squids years ago admittedly 

I have said on here that the pee is emptied into my IBCs where its diluted with rain water and used to water the allotment it's a valuable source of nutrients for the plants 

I know you did, I specifically excluded you because you seem to do it as it needs to be done.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

The time & timber to make that rather fine top and surround - ignored, the varnish for the same - ignored, cabling - ignored, fuse & switch - ignored, cost of vent pipe and fittings - ignored, and housing for computer fan - ignored. Now, I am happy to accept the OP may have had all these to hand so at the time did not cost him anything, but they did cost at some time

I'm pleased that you are interested in some more detail.

 

I did say half a day for a simple setup and I dad say it would cost a lot more for an oak clad super model such as that pictured; there was no attempt made to deceive anyone.

 

On my boat, the containing box was a cabinet that was already there, cut down to receive the equipment. I didn't offer costs for the box because they can range from 5 scraps of OSB pulled from a skip, or a discarded wooden kitchen worktop, through to ply, faced or otherwise, tongue and groove pine, right up to solid oak. 

 

All the bits and pieces, 0.5mm cable, a tiny switch, a vent grill etc. all a few pounds from eBay where all the other components came from.

 

I did include the cost of the vent pipe, but threw you by calling it air duct. The computer fan is simply screwed to the inside of the vent hole in the containing box, so no cost there, well four tiny screws.

 

As you can see, you can spend a lot more, but you needn't.

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50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I know you did, I specifically excluded you because you seem to do it as it needs to be done.

Then it's a reminder to the rest that read this a8dondo it properly Tony. 

On the Facebook widebeam group I posted to somebody of how to compost properly, and if they didn't don't go the composting route! Now whilst I am pro composting I am against the bag it and bin it as CRT have said it's a no no. Its the same with electric cars and boats, I want and know that it's the way to go but only if your car/boat engine is knackered and you can afford it. Many London boaters could easily go electric for their couple of miles every couple of weeks 

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29 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I'm pleased that you are interested in some more detail.

 

I did say half a day for a simple setup and I dad say it would cost a lot more for an oak clad super model such as that pictured; there was no attempt made to deceive anyone.

 

On my boat, the containing box was a cabinet that was already there, cut down to receive the equipment. I didn't offer costs for the box because they can range from 5 scraps of OSB pulled from a skip, or a discarded wooden kitchen worktop, through to ply, faced or otherwise, tongue and groove pine, right up to solid oak. 

 

All the bits and pieces, 0.5mm cable, a tiny switch, a vent grill etc. all a few pounds from eBay where all the other components came from.

 

I did include the cost of the vent pipe, but threw you by calling it air duct. The computer fan is simply screwed to the inside of the vent hole in the containing box, so no cost there, well four tiny screws.

 

As you can see, you can spend a lot more, but you needn't.

 

OK, so fair enough. Now how about addressing the IBS, Crones, food poisoning problem. With IBS and Crones it is likely to be ongoing very wet motions, so presumably the sawdust consumption would be a lot higher and all involve high volume, highish pressure, ill directed discharge. If you need to clean the inside of your bucket or the bowl in the case of a more sophisticated loo that suggests a liquid and possibly a disinfectant will get into the bucket so that is even more sawdust. That in turn suggest a much shortened "taking out of service" period. With a cassette or pump out there is no issue with adding extra water to clean the toilet and as they say composting of any waste needs about 50% water it suggests more then that will inhibit the initial breakdown of the solids.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

OK, so fair enough. Now how about addressing the IBS, Crones, food poisoning problem. With IBS and Crones it is likely to be ongoing very wet motions, so presumably the sawdust consumption would be a lot higher and all involve high volume, highish pressure, ill directed discharge. If you need to clean the inside of your bucket or the bowl in the case of a more sophisticated loo that suggests a liquid and possibly a disinfectant will get into the bucket so that is even more sawdust. That in turn suggest a much shortened "taking out of service" period. With a cassette or pump out there is no issue with adding extra water to clean the toilet and as they say composting of any waste needs about 50% water it suggests more then that will inhibit the initial breakdown of the solids.

Mine goes into the hot bin at the allotment it breaks down very fast I throw in weeds, grass and all the other food based veg waste.

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22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Now how about addressing the IBS, Crones, food poisoning problem. With IBS and Crones it is likely to be ongoing very wet motions,

I would suggest that a separating toilet isn't appropriate for everyone, and if you are unlucky enough to suffer from a condition that means you always or regularly produce runny deposits, an alternative should be considered.

 

For the occasional accident, dodgy sea food and the like, a bit of extra sawdust would cope fine. One can always retire one bucket until it dries out a little, replace it with a partly full one or a clean one, bringing it back into use a few days later.

 

As for splatter, antiseptic wipes work well, add no extra moisture to the 'compost' but should be deposited in the waste bin of course.

 

A major clean-up is also easy: The lid of the box, attached to which is the urine separator, lifts off completely, so just take it outside, wipe it clean, then spray it with disinfectant spray, wipe it again and reinstall. The separator insert includes a downward pointing shield that directs poo and splatter towards the bottom of the bucket, so the sides of the bucket are shielded and remain clean.

 

There won't be any smell in the heads because the toilet container is under negative pressure. Even passed wind doesn't usually escape during use!

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5 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Perhaps, rather than speculating on the sins of others, we should hear from the 'separators' on here as to what they do for disposal.

That was not speculation, I was moored behind one

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11 hours ago, Loddon said:

So we have gone back to what we did in the 70's dig a hole in a nearby field, fill it and then cover it over.

That's progress? 😟

Worse, because the plastic bags won't break down, it's a mad idea.

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On 21/05/2022 at 19:30, ditchcrawler said:

But some don't

I'm sure you're right, but then, some cassette toilet users tip that over the side too.

 

It could well be that the same sort of people who have converted from tipping their cassettes overboard, have taken to separating and tipping their pee overboard.

 

Neither is acceptable, but at a little pee is better than the entire contents of a cassette I suppose. Their 'dry' toilet is probably in the woods or in a waste bin somewhere, but you'll never change the antisocial habits of some.

 

 

 

 

 

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