Jump to content

C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.


Alan de Enfield

Featured Posts

8 hours ago, booke23 said:


No they don't. 

 

I don't see how either your nor Bargbuilder's can have any merit unless either of you have any proof. On balance and taking human nature into account I think Bargebuilder is more likely to be correct.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't see how either your nor Bargbuilder's can have any merit unless either of you have any proof. On balance and taking human nature into account I think Bargebuilder is more likely to be correct.

 

In 15 years, I’ve never seen evidence of cassette emptying into canals. Have you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

In 15 years, I’ve never seen evidence of cassette emptying into canals. Have you?

 

In 40 years, neither have I, but, knowing how antisocial some boaters can be it wouldn't surprise me is there was a number who did / do.

 

On the other hand I'd expect a far greater number of dry-toilet owners to 'tip over the side' as a standard practice.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

In 15 years, I’ve never seen evidence of cassette emptying into canals. Have you?

I saw it done once, about nine years ago and I think it was on either the K&A or the upper Thames as that was the route for that particular holiday.

 

I would think, given how disgusting it is, that someone intending to tip the contents of their toilet cassette over the side would be very cautious and make absolutely certain that nobody was looking.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

They're not gonna do it when anyone is looking are they?

 

Of course.

Like I said I haven’t seen evidence. If you dump a cassette in a canal, the floating detritus would be evident for quite a while. Bits of toilet paper stuck to reeds etc would probably be evident for days, and I’ve never seen it. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but if it has it’s exceedingly rare…..unlike separating toilet users, where I suspect it’s exceedingly rare for them to pour the liquids down elsans.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've emptied my cassette over the side twice as there were no disposal facilities close by. Both times was to the East of Sea Reach No3 Buoy🤭

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, booke23 said:

If you dump a cassette in a canal, the floating detritus would be evident for quite a while.

I bow to your knowledge in that particular matter.

 

My personal experience from when I owned a barge and used to motor 3 miles off shore to pump out nearly a tonne of 'black' into the sea, was that it almost instantly sank with no trace at all on the surface after a few minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, booke23 said:

 

In 15 years, I’ve never seen evidence of cassette emptying into canals. Have you?

I have never seen anyone shot, or a bank robbery take place but I understand it happens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I bow to your knowledge in that particular matter.

 

My personal experience from when I owned a barge and used to motor 3 miles off shore to pump out nearly a tonne of 'black' into the sea, was that it almost instantly sank with no trace at all on the surface after a few minutes.

 

Different expeinces on different days - we have sea-toilets on 2 of our boats.

Toilet paper is not put down the toilet but put in the bin (as per much of the world does), so we do not ever get floating paper.

The black-water when pumped out may contain 'sinkers' or 'floaters' r a mixture of both.

If it is pumping out the tank following a period in harbour it tends to be 'sinkers' as it has broken down somewhat, if it is just a 'fresh single deposit' it is more often not a floater for a period of time (at least until it drifts out of sight)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Loddon said:

 

I Just read that and as a kid use to swim in Filby Broad, I think its Essex and Suffolk Water who draw water from there at Ormesby. Anyway there we were swimming in the broad when a larger browny popped up behind my friend, he had partake of this Aqua-Crapping you talk of

 Essex & Suffolk Water Filter Sand Washing Solution in England - CDE Projects | CDE (cdegroup.com)

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Different expeinces on different days - we have sea-toilets on 2 of our boats.

Toilet paper is not put down the toilet but put in the bin (as per much of the world does), so we do not ever get floating paper.

The black-water when pumped out may contain 'sinkers' or 'floaters' r a mixture of both.

If it is pumping out the tank following a period in harbour it tends to be 'sinkers' as it has broken down somewhat, if it is just a 'fresh single deposit' it is more often not a floater for a period of time (at least until it drifts out of sight)

We hired in France on the Canal De Midi and the boat had grey water holding tanks which stank and straight overboard toilets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I Just read that and as a kid use to swim in Filby Broad, I think its Essex and Suffolk Water who draw water from there at Ormesby. Anyway there we were swimming in the broad when a larger browny popped up behind my friend, he had partake of this Aqua-Crapping you talk of

 Essex & Suffolk Water Filter Sand Washing Solution in England - CDE Projects | CDE (cdegroup.com)

We hired in France on the Canal De Midi and the boat had grey water holding tanks which stank and straight overboard toilets

 

 

Our Motor Crusier is built to European standards and has both Grey & Black water holding tanks.

There are serious fines in some of the Med countries if you don't pump out both Grey and Black water into shore facilities.

 

You have a 'blue card' on which is recorded your pump out records (date and volume)  and they have calculations on the volumes that should be produced per day per person, so if you have not pumped out sufficient or frequently enough then it is assumed you have pumped out into the sea and the fine ensues.

 

Spain

Spain has holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

Greece

In Greece the regulations relating to discharges and pollution make a holding tank a practical necessity although we are not aware of them being a legal requirement as yet. Caution should also be exerted with grey water in Greece.

Turkey

Discharge of any kind may be considered illegal. A black water tank has therefore been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years. New rules have been coming into force in some areas of Turkey (such as the Mugla District) over the last few years which require vessels to carry a Blue Card. If the rules are enforced to the full all black and grey water will need to be collected and pumped out ashore; the Blue Card will be used to monitor the amount of waste water deposited ashore to ensure holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea.

 

France

French law requires that as of 1 January 2008 new vessels, whether French or foreign flagged, are fitted with a treatment system or retention tank for black water if they wish to have access to French maritime or river ports, moorings and anchorages.

Users of older vessels which are not equipped with treatment systems or holding tanks for black water are, like all other pleasure yacht users, required to comply with the rules which prohibit discharge in ports and designated anchoring spots. They must therefore use shore toilets.

How these rules are to be applied or enforced is not very clear but it is anticipated that guidelines or a further law defining the extent and manner of application and any sanctions will be issued in the future.

In principle it is forbidden to flush toilets into canals and rivers, but as pump out facilities are few and far between until now discreet overboard discharging has been tolerated, this may of course change.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although tempting to chose to believe only statements and speculation that suits ones point of view, we must guard against it.

 

I, as someone who thinks separating toilets can be the best option, happily accept that some separating toilet  users tip their urine into the canal. I am also happy to accept that some cassette users and perhaps even a tiny number of pump-out users also use their waterway as a sewer.

 

I would suggest that 'composters' wouldn't put the partly dried out solids into the canal because it would definitely float, unlike the fresh stuff from a cassette. They may well tip the partially composted compost into a hole they've dug in the woods, or bag it and bin it or even fully compost it as they should, although the latter is with little doubt the exception.

 

I would suggest also, if a 'composter' has converted from a cassette to almost eliminate the carrying of  containers of liquid waste, they would plumb their urine pipe into the hand basin water outlet so the pee goes directly over the side as it's produced a little at a time. Not great, but much better for the environment than disposing of many litres at once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, LadyG said:

Worse, because the plastic bags won't break down, it's a mad idea.

That was the 'improved' version in later 1960's. Our first hire boat had a sea toilet so no question about where the output went. A year later we had acquired a very small boat of our own and it came with a very simple elsan and spade for digging. 

 

A further year and we hired a larger boat to take a group of cub scouts on a trip (BTW we did not have to do Risk Assessments back then!) and that very definitely was a 'dig a hole' system - a rather amusing story there but I'll not bore you with that right now . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, LadyG said:

Worse, because the plastic bags won't break down, it's a mad idea.

Actually dog poo bags are biodegradable along with the bags that came with my toilet, I don't use them but I found them in the bathroom cabinet and they had turned to powder 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Actually dog poo bags are biodegradable along with the bags that came with my toilet, I don't use them but I found them in the bathroom cabinet and they had turned to powder 

There is a difference between biodegradable and compostable....biodegrading plastic bags simply turn into millions of parts of plastic becoming microplastics...bad for the environment, whereas compostable bags are normally made from corn starch or potato starch so are more benign. Nuclear waste is biodegradable too but that does not mean its safe....unless you wait  for hundreds of years. Do keep up there at the back will you?

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

None of us could possibly know for sure if boaters were burying their ' humanure' in its polythene bag, but I can't see the logic.

 

We are talking about a boater who is socially responsible enough to carry his/her dessicated poo together with a shovel, a distance from their boat to avoid being seen, dug a hole and then knowingly left the humanure in its bag to never decompose; unlikely.

 

More likely that they take the bucket and empty it's contents directly into the hole, or if they've transported it in a bag, tipped it out and put the soiled bag into the rubbish bin.

 

And no, I'm not condoning burying ones poo on someone else's land, but I'm sure it happens.

10 minutes ago, markeymark said:

Nuclear waste is biodegradable

I don't think so.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

We are talking about a boater who is socially responsible enough to carry his/her dessicated poo together with a shovel, a distance from their boat to avoid being seen, dug a hole and then knowingly left the humanure in its bag to never decompose; unlikely.

But how do you square that with the evidence that there are plenty of dog owners who are socially responsible enough to pick up their dog's poo in a plastic bag and then carry it a distance to avoid being seen, and then hang the bag in a hedge?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

But how do you square that with the evidence that there are plenty of dog owners who are socially responsible enough to pick up their dog's poo in a plastic bag and then carry it a distance to avoid being seen, and then hang the bag in a hedge?

Simply, that there is a lot more planning and effort involved with locating a bit of woodland in a quiet location, carrying a heavy bucket and a shovel to a suitable spot, digging a hole big enough to accommodate the dryish poo and back filling the hole. Even taking the trouble to obtain and carry a spade on a boat shows planning and intention. There is almost no effort involved with bagging a doggy dollop and hanging the bag in a bush.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

I bow to your knowledge in that particular matter.

 

My personal experience from when I owned a barge and used to motor 3 miles off shore to pump out nearly a tonne of 'black' into the sea, was that it almost instantly sank with no trace at all on the surface after a few minutes.

 

Yes, but the sea is deep and very wide. A canal is shallow and very narrow. 

 

3 hours ago, peterboat said:

Yes they do! I have seen the contents of them on land and floating in the water 


Well I've not seen, another boater with 40 years on the canals hasn't seen it, and ditchcrawler hasn't seen it and he's probably been on the canals a long time too. So I think we can at least say it's very rare. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.