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10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

If battery cells are shorting then the battery may start emitting sulphur dioxide that is a very dangerous gas - it smells of rotten eggs and tarnishes bright metal.

Hydrogen Sulphide!

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Half the people sitting on boats in marinas connected to shore power with a battery charger (or combi inverter/charger) switched on don't realise that their batteries are dead and only find out when they disconnect from the mains. 

 

If you're just staying in the marina then don't buy new batteries just yet because even with dead batteries you can drive your 12v DC system from the mains through the charger (assuming you have one and it's switched on). 

 

On the other hand if the 12v system on your boat died suddenly as soon as the mains power was cut then as others have said, that might suggest a setting on a combi isn't set correctly.

 

Anyway, don't buy new batteries until you understand things properly because you might not need them and even if you do you might kill them straight away.

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54 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Also tried starting the engine and looks like the starter motor is working either 

IS working, or ISN'T working either ?

 

41 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Also now feeling very stupid for not knowing what my battery isolation was as there is a large  plaque telling me....

Now you have found the 'red key switch' is it in the 'on position' ?

Now you have found the "1,2, both, off" switch is that in the 'both' position ? (then try it in the '1' position, if that works leave it there)

 

If so is everything working now ?

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Some points but not too helpful

 

The master switch with the red key. As @Jen-in-Wellies said these are very unreliable so do as he suggests and turn it on and off a few times, I woudl suggest that you take the red key out and screw up a little ball tinfoil or paper and put it down the hole under the key. If the 12V comes back on with no charger running you need a new master switch but get a quality one like BlueSea etc.

 

With both a master switch and a 1, 2, both, off switch its hard to guess how the boat is wired. the four position switch might be a bank selection cum master switch or it might be wired for charge selection. The reason this is important as that you seem to have only one other master switch. That would be workable for tow banks if it was in the negative but it looks as if there is a thick red wire running to the switch. This suggests its in the positive for one bank. probably the domestic bank - the discharged bank (I hope).

 

The white box is the mains consumer unit so that will have no influence upon the 12V side of things apart from it supplying the charger.

 

The line of ceramic/plastic "torpedo" euro fuses are the protection for your 12V circuits. this type of fuse is a pain in the situpon especially in damp environments. Make sure each fuse is tight in the holder and ensure the two fuse metal is clean where it fits into the clips. In an ideal world you I woudl advise changing this for one  with car type clade fuses once you solve the battery issue.

 

I think the four position switch might be set to both and is a battery bank selection switch.  When set like this the engine start and domestic batteries act as one big bank so if you do have a faulty battery it would discharge the whole lot or if you used the 12V for a long time with no charger the same would apply. I can't be certain about this because I cant see anything to indicate position on the switch knob.

 

It is important now to get the charger working and leave the four position switch to both so hopeful the charger will charge both banks but it will take hours and hours even if there are no faulty batteries.

 

Once you get it charging after an hour or so inspect the batteries. If any cell is bubbling a lot more than the others or if an cell is hot then that battery is faulty. if the ends of the battery case are bulging out it also indicates a the battery is close to the end of its like.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

IS working, or ISN'T working either ?

 

Now you have found the 'red key switch' is it in the 'on position' ?

Now you have found the "1,2, both, off" switch is that in the 'both' position ? (then try it in the '1' position, if that works leave it there)

 

If so is everything working now ?

Sorry isn’t working. And just tried this still no luck..!

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20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Some points but not too helpful

 

The master switch with the red key. As @Jen-in-Wellies said these are very unreliable so do as he suggests and turn it on and off a few times, I woudl suggest that you take the red key out and screw up a little ball tinfoil or paper and put it down the hole under the key. If the 12V comes back on with no charger running you need a new master switch but get a quality one like BlueSea etc.

 

With both a master switch and a 1, 2, both, off switch its hard to guess how the boat is wired. the four position switch might be a bank selection cum master switch or it might be wired for charge selection. The reason this is important as that you seem to have only one other master switch. That would be workable for tow banks if it was in the negative but it looks as if there is a thick red wire running to the switch. This suggests its in the positive for one bank. probably the domestic bank - the discharged bank (I hope).

 

The white box is the mains consumer unit so that will have no influence upon the 12V side of things apart from it supplying the charger.

 

The line of ceramic/plastic "torpedo" euro fuses are the protection for your 12V circuits. this type of fuse is a pain in the situpon especially in damp environments. Make sure each fuse is tight in the holder and ensure the two fuse metal is clean where it fits into the clips. In an ideal world you I woudl advise changing this for one  with car type clade fuses once you solve the battery issue.

 

I think the four position switch might be set to both and is a battery bank selection switch.  When set like this the engine start and domestic batteries act as one big bank so if you do have a faulty battery it would discharge the whole lot or if you used the 12V for a long time with no charger the same would apply. I can't be certain about this because I cant see anything to indicate position on the switch knob.

 

It is important now to get the charger working and leave the four position switch to both so hopeful the charger will charge both banks but it will take hours and hours even if there are no faulty batteries.

 

Once you get it charging after an hour or so inspect the batteries. If any cell is bubbling a lot more than the others or if an cell is hot then that battery is faulty. if the ends of the battery case are bulging out it also indicates a the battery is close to the end of its like.

Thankyou so much for this! I will try what you have suggested and re read a couple of times to get my head round it! Have attached other photos of the batteries also if it helps 

219E3004-98AC-46BC-9983-4BB0D46E6193.jpeg

A84E2EFC-F99B-4B2A-BBD4-481E27370C53.jpeg

CD3C353E-F896-4A14-B59E-535E071664EB.jpeg

8CD96733-1D29-4378-B75C-D23C5450B3D5.jpeg

Edited by Kismet
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11 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Sorry isn’t working. And just tried this still no luck..!

The black box with a picture of a sailboat and saying 'Hypertronic' is your battery charger - is the battery charger 'on'?

The grey box with the clear 'front' is your main 'fuse box' - are the switches in the 'on' position ? (sometimes when your electric goes off and comes back on it can trip the switches)

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Some points but not too helpful

With the 230v wired with Twin & Earth it could be anyones guess if there is any 'system' or convention to the rest of the eelctics.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The black box with a picture of a sailboat and saying 'Hypertronic' is your battery charger - is the battery charger 'on'?

The grey box with the clear 'front' is your main 'fuse box' - are the switches in the 'on' position ? (sometimes when your electric goes off and comes back on it can trip the switches)

Yes pretty sure both are on (and have tried flicking them the other way just incase I’m being stupid and no changes) 

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

I agree, all are up and that is usually the on position.

Unless the box has been installed upside down (not unknown)

 

I notice that it appears to have PVC cable running alongside / thru the Polystyrene insulation, which is not ideal.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Yes pretty sure both are on (and have tried flicking them the other way just incase I’m being stupid and no changes) 

Is all of the other 230v (mains) stuff working ?

Is the light on (or any humming) coming from the battery charger ?

 

I don't suppose you have a voltmeter or multimeter on board ?

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unless the box has been installed upside down (not unknown)

 

I notice that it appears to have PVC cable running alongside / thru the Polystyrene insulation, which is not ideal.

 

 

Is all of the other 230v (mains) stuff working ?

Is the light on (or any humming) coming from the battery charger ?

 

I don't suppose you have a voltmeter or multimeter on board ?

Still waiting for my electric to be topped up as the marina office hours during covid / lockdown are reduced! But when I get back onto the mains I’ll let you know. But pre to my electricity credit running out everything was working, even though I’m betting the 12v batteries had been not working for a while without me realising.. 

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13 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Still waiting for my electric to be topped up as the marina office hours during covid / lockdown are reduced! But when I get back onto the mains I’ll let you know. But pre to my electricity credit running out everything was working, even though I’m betting the 12v batteries had been not working for a while without me realising.. 

If those are the only batteries you don't have much capacity so living aboard you would discharge the domestic one (or both if that switch is set to both) quickly if you lost charge. Any number on the battery labels like 85, 90,100, 110, 115, 120 followed by Ah?

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8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If those are the only batteries you don't have much capacity so living aboard you would discharge the domestic one (or both if that switch is set to both) quickly if you lost charge. Any number on the battery labels like 85, 90,100, 110, 115, 120 followed by Ah?

Yes 110

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54 minutes ago, Kismet said:

 

 

CD3C353E-F896-4A14-B59E-535E071664EB.jpeg

 

You have two batteries with a common negative and separate positive wires, so it looks like one engine start battery and one to run the domestic 12V stuff. This is not a lot of battery capacity to run without either frequent engine running or a permanent mains connection to recharge.

My guess is that the 1-2-both switch has been set to both, so that the mains battery charger keeps both batteries topped up. But the problem is that with the mains having failed, both batteries have supplied the domestic electrics until they ran flat. Which is why you can't start the engine.

Ideally you need to get the mains sorted so you can recharge both batteries. The only alternative would be to borrow a fully charged battery from a fellow boater, put that in place of your start battery, and then with the switch set to whichever of the 1 or 2 positions connects only the start battery you should be able to start the engine. You can then switch to Both, which will recharge both the borrowed start battery and your domestic battery. You will need a few hours running to get a reasonable amount of charge into the domestic battery. If that works you could then stop the engine, remove the borrowed battery, put your charged battery in its place and put your old start battery in the domestic place. Then repeat the process to charge your second battery. You will now have swapped your two batteries, but I don't think that matters as they look to be identical.

When the engine is not running turn the switch to connect only the (new) domestic battery so that you don't run down the start battery.

Recharge with the switch set to Both. You will probably need to repeat this daily, so the sooner you can get the mains sorted, the better!

 

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13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

You have two batteries with a common negative and separate positive wires, so it looks like one engine start battery and one to run the domestic 12V stuff. This is not a lot of battery capacity to run without either frequent engine running or a permanent mains connection to recharge.

My guess is that the 1-2-both switch has been set to both, so that the mains battery charger keeps both batteries topped up. But the problem is that with the mains having failed, both batteries have supplied the domestic electrics until they ran flat. Which is why you can't start the engine.

Ideally you need to get the mains sorted so you can recharge both batteries. The only alternative would be to borrow a fully charged battery from a fellow boater, put that in place of your start battery, and then with the switch set to whichever of the 1 or 2 positions connects only the start battery you should be able to start the engine. You can then switch to Both, which will recharge both the borrowed start battery and your domestic battery. You will need a few hours running to get a reasonable amount of charge into the domestic battery. If that works you could then stop the engine, remove the borrowed battery, put your charged battery in its place and put your old start battery in the domestic place. Then repeat the process to charge your second battery. You will now have swapped your two batteries, but I don't think that matters as they look to be identical.

When the engine is not running turn the switch to connect only the (new) domestic battery so that you don't run down the start battery.

Recharge with the switch set to Both. You will probably need to repeat this daily, so the sooner you can get the mains sorted, the better!

 

Okay thanks for this! Yes you are right it was set to both and I always have set it to that, not sure if that is the right thing to do? Yes hopefully the mains will be sorted soon... So if I start re charging them is there a smart way to test if they are actually recharging? As opposed to dead and not taking any charge 

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10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

one to run the domestic 12V stuff. This is not a lot of battery capacity to run without either frequent engine running or a permanent mains connection to recharge.

 

21 minutes ago, Kismet said:

Yes 110

 

The problem you are going to have is that there is insufficent space there to install any more batteries. If you intend to cruise then you will have problems as you will possibly destroy a single battery in 1 day's usage by making it so flat it cannot recharge.

 

If you are simply going to stay in the marina then there is no problem to keep the batteries as they are and 'live off the battery charger'.

If you are planning to use the boat for cruising you will need to get 'someone in' to sort out where you can out a decent sized 'doemestic battery bank (probably at least 4 batteries). many liveaboards will have 6 or more. 

 

Come back when you have got your leccy reconnected.

 

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Clutching at straws time!!  Looking at #34, looks like you have a master switch similar to mine. As a "security measure" (??) the red bit is removable in the off position - it has a bayonet end which engages with the shaft of the switch.  If you have been fiddling with it, make sure the shaft of the red bit is well pushed in so that, when you turn it on, you are actually operating the switch - can you feel a switchy action? 🤔

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