November Lockdown (Two threads merged)

[Mike Todd]

17 hours ago, LadyG said:

I don't go to garden centres, but I do go to museums, libraries, and sometimes, the Edinburgh Woolen Mill , which is closing after about fifty years trading (including in garden centres) due to political interference.

I also visit betting shops, and that is 'cos I used to work in the racing industry, nothiing to do with gambling.

Betting shops are exemplary, they could not do more to prevent the spread of disease yet they have been closed. The betting companies are bringing down the shutters in the UK . Online betting will replace betting shops, the government have killed another Uk industry. Taxation will be avoided, the government drove the betting companies away, and now they will stay away.

For your information, thr British Thoroughbred industry was, until recently the tenth biggest (£) industry in Gt Britain and Ireland, employing hundreds of thousands directly, and many more thousands indirectly, it was not unusual for a racehorse to sell for a milliion or several million, dollars or GBP, now all the horses sold are going abroad, this is because the racing industry has been brought to it's knees by political interference, it was already on a knife edge, and now it is unsustainable.

I have been based in Retford recently, if we remove the shops which currently are closing down, and the betting shops and one or two banks, that will leave an impoverished town centre, and I would say that Retford is a good example of a pleasant town centre in 'midfle England', by which I mean pleasant, and moderately prosperous, by 2021, it eill be charity shop , cheapo shops and empty shops, fewer banks, less variety, no reason for people to visit.

What political interference caused EWM, and the other parts of the same corporate, to go bust? I thought it was because their demographic was aging, falling off the log and not going shopping during the pandemic.

[Athy]

18 hours ago, LadyG said:

The betting companies are bringing down the shutters in the UK .

It's good to see that the bug is having some positive effects.

[Alway Swilby]

18 hours ago, LadyG said:

I have been based in Retford recently, if we remove the shops which currently are closing down, and the betting shops and one or two banks, that will leave an impoverished town centre, and I would say that Retford is a good example of a pleasant town centre in 'midfle England', by which I mean pleasant, and moderately prosperous, by 2021, it eill be charity shop , cheapo shops and empty shops, fewer banks, less variety, no reason for people to visit.

That's because everyone shops at Amazon!

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

It's good to see that the bug is having some positive effects.

Not really, the betting will go offshore and international, so the tax revenue we do get(which is massive), we will lose.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

the betting will go offshore 

Precisely, so there would be no physical shops luring people who can't afford it to go in and lose money.

[Cheshire cat]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Precisely, so there would be no physical shops luring people who can't afford it to go in and lose money.

They will simply bet online

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Precisely, so there would be no physical shops luring people who can't afford it to go in and lose money.

Jesus Christ!

 

Haven't you heard of online betting...

[Cheshire cat]

Good news. The government has had a change of heart. Pubs and Breweries can do offsales providing it has been pre-ordered by use of the internet, phone or post! 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

What political interference caused EWM, and the other parts of the same corporate, to go bust? I thought it was because their demographic was aging, falling off the log and not going shopping during the pandemic.

I'm not sure about that statement. The point is that country has been brought to it's knes and The High Street cannot survive, an 'ordinary', fairly succesfull busines has closed it's doors, so, what chance do the fly by nights or indeed any business have?

Boris stuffed money into the economy, and yet all these businesses have failed to survive, your high street economy has dried up.

[Cheshire cat]

1 minute ago, StationMaster said:

Jesus Christ!

 

Haven't you heard of online betting...

They're in a different millenium in Norfolk ?. They haven't got motorways yet.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

Precisely, so there would be no physical shops luring people who can't afford it to go in and lose money.

Athy, when were you last in a betting shop?

[Machpoint005]

4 hours ago, Athy said:

It's good to see that the bug is having some positive effects.

 

Betting shops might not be the venue of choice for most of us, but before getting on our middle-class high horses perhaps we should bear in mind that there is (or at least there used to be) an important social aspect to going to the bookies' and having a flutter among friends, then watching the racing unfold. Not my taste, but who am I to criticise? 

 

Many people prefer not to go down to the rugby club and watch the local fourth team get spannered.

4 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Good news. The government has had a change of heart. Pubs and Breweries can do offsales providing it has been pre-ordered by use of the internet, phone or post! 

 

I suspect that rather than being a change of heart, it's an injection of reality into the "we never thought of that" which has characterised the whole sorry story. Logic hasn't been to the forefront, and we all know that "Boris doesn't do detail". 

 

 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Athy said:

It's good to see that the bug is having some positive effects.

That is making me very angry.

I go in to the betting shop, I am not 'lured', I go there for an afternoon's entertainment, it is far cheaper than going to some 'Cinema' which costs an arm and a leg, sells popcorn and al the rest of it, at fantastic margins., and you get  90 minutes of screenplay, and God knows how much advertising.

THE UK THOROUGHBRED INDUSTRY IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST INDUSTRIES IN THE UK 

The betting shop, on the High Street is a place where people can go without an entry fee, it is clean, it is friendly and there are never any drunks,

The staff are friendly, professional, and helpful, for some people this is their only escape from their bedsit. No one has to spend money, it is their choice, if anyone is spending more than they can afford they will be warned off A few people are addicted to gambling, they don't go to betting shops, they go to unregulated places.

I only know about bettng shops because I used to work in racing, nothing to do with gambling, I am interested in racing, the betting shops have TV, and also the trade papers, in the past you could get free drinks, including bottled water, and toilet facilities.

If I had to hang around in any town for a few hours for any reason, or if I neeed the toilet, I went to William Hills, other betting shops were available. The government has done it's best to stop the industry, these companies will bite the bullet for a while, but eventually, they just give up and concentrate on making profits, and that means getting out of the High Street, out of the racecourses, stopping  sponsorship and all other returns to the Uk,  they will close down shops, sack staff, leave those shops empty, and go online from Gibralter or any country where they pay less tax.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by LadyG

[Machpoint005]

5 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

They're in a different millenium in Norfolk ?. They haven't got motorways yet.

 

I know that sinking feeling only too well -- the dual carriageway ends east of Kings Lynn, then the sign says "Great Yarmouth 67 miles".

 

 

[peterboat]

Just now, LadyG said:

That is making me very angry.

i go in to the betting shop, I am not 'lured', I go there for an afternoon's entertainment, it is far cheaper than going to some 'Cinema' which costs an arm and a leg, sells popcorn and al the rest of it, at fantastic margins., and you get  90 minutes of screenplay, and God knows how much advertising.

 

4.99 squids for 2 using meerkat movies cheaper than betting and far more entertaining 

6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Betting shops might not be the venue of choice for most of us, but before getting on our middle-class high horses perhaps we should bear in mind that there is (or at least there used to be) an important social aspect to going to the bookies' and having a flutter among friends, then watching the racing unfold. Not my taste, but who am I to criticise? 

 

Many people prefer not to go down to the rugby club and watch the local fourth team get spannered.

 

I suspect that rather than being a change of heart, it's an injection of reality into the "we never thought of that" which has characterised the whole sorry story. Logic hasn't been to the forefront, and we all know that "Boris doesn't do detail". 

 

 

Actually I call it common sense change if needed is a good thing rigid plans like a lot want are often a disaster 

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

That is making me very angry.

i go in to the betting shop, I am not 'lured', I go there for an afternoon's entertainment, it is far cheaper than going to some 'Cinema' which costs an arm and a leg, sells popcorn and al the rest of it, at fantastic margins., and you get  90 minutes of screenplay, and God knows how much advertising.

 

 

I don't know if you would agree that the FOBTs (bandits) are a problem, but I'm with you all the way on the racing.

 

Mind you, I can count my visits to betting shops on the fingers of one hand: as a punter it was to collect my winnings when Troy won the Derby, and a few years later to back a couple of outsiders in the National. Most recently I went in as an environmental consultant to Ladbrokes, in case I was asked about it in Court.

 

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Actually I call it common sense change if needed is a good thing rigid plans like a lot want are often a disaster 

 

If you are going to change something you need a plan in the first place.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

That is making me very angry.

It is really sad seeing those who can least afford it spend their money on the hope of a win to be able to afford to live.

 

 

 

I was visiting the Ford designers in Dearborn (Detroit).

One of the saddest sights I have ever seen was on a Friday evening in a Casino just over the American / Canadian border in Windsor.

 

There were 100's of Detroit motor industry 'blue collar workers' from the US side waiting to get in, and the locals we were visiting said it was the same every Friday (pay-day) and of course the majority would go home with rather less than they arrived with.

The lived in hope that they would win enough to change their lives, but ended up not being able to feed the family the following week.

 

Very sad.

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I don't know if you would agree that the FOBTs (bandits) are a problem, but I'm with you all the way on the racing.

 

Mind you, I can count my visits to betting shops on the fingers of one hand: as a punter it was to collect my winnings when Troy won the Derby, and a few years later to back a couple of outsiders in the National. Most recently I went in as an environmental consultant to Ladbrokes, in case I was asked about it in Court.

 

 

If you are going to change something you need a plan in the first place.

Oh how we laffed and thanked our lucky stars that Jeremy didnt win the GE

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

Good news. The government has had a change of heart. Pubs and Breweries can do offsales providing it has been pre-ordered by use of the internet, phone or post! 

I'm glad they read this forum then. 

Luckily, they have probably gone to bed before Doghouse/unhappynomad pops in.

[Kiwidad]

27 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I'm glad they read this forum then. 

Luckily, they have probably gone to bed before Doghouse/unhappynomad pops in.

Yay, you will be able to get a stock of drambuie in ?

[Athy]

4 hours ago, StationMaster said:

Jesus Christ!

 

Haven't you heard of online betting...

Thank you for the appellation, and yes, I have.

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Athy, when were you last in a betting shop?

Not this century. Probably in 1989. Why?

Edited November 3, 2020 by Athy

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm not sure about that statement. The point is that country has been brought to it's knes and The High Street cannot survive, an 'ordinary', fairly succesfull busines has closed it's doors, so, what chance do the fly by nights or indeed any business have?

Boris stuffed money into the economy, and yet all these businesses have failed to survive, your high street economy has dried up.

You are still missing the point - EWM's business model was on the slide before March. (Sad, 'cos I used to like them, at least the large branch down in Cornwall)

 

On the wider point, clearly a lot of the economy has been very badly impacted by the pandemic  - on a very small scale, our life has been seriously altered by one particular failure - and as Grayston Perry picked up (a but unfortunate in how his expressed himself) - much will never return. But nature abhors a vacuum and new things will eventually grow up in their place. Whether or not one things the new is better than the old, as seen personally, it will have the advantage that it exists. A failed idea was never a good idea, at least at the time of failure. Some businesses are led by people who always have Plan B or adapt to circumstance (eg pubs moving into off sales) whilst others plough on regardless, often expecting someone else to solve their problems.

 

I realise that that might seem like an extreme free market position, and I am not really that way inclined because, unlike M Thatcher, I do believe that there is such a thing as society - think of food banks for instance - but I also believe that we were given brains for a purpose and that is to think around the corner and not be only driven by the winds.

[LadyG]

On 03/11/2020 at 18:44, peterboat said:

4.99 squids for 2 using meerkat movies cheaper than betting and far more entertaining 

Actually I call it common sense change if needed is a good thing rigid plans like a lot want are often a disaster 

I don't think you or Athy have been in a betting shop in the last ten years, if ever , but you think you know they are bad places, full of stupid  people who are spending their last penny every day, that is how I imagine these unregulated amusement places are run, but as I explained before, the betting shop is run by International organisations, at the moment they pay moneys back in to the racing industry, a significant part of the funding of racing comes from betting organisations.

The British Racing Industry is huge, all parts are important, if the betting shops closed permanently, and I think they have closed many thousands this past two years, £millions are lost to the treasury,  money is lost to the Local Authority, to staff, etc etc.

International companies who own and run the betting shops will just remove the selves from the UK.

Addicted gamblers are a minority, they may end up in prison or on the streets, but they are few and far between, the betting industry is overseen by the Betting Industry Authority, and others, they are subject to draconian financial penalties and strictures if the do not take proven measures to prevent money laundering, addictive gambling, or heavy gambling from individuals who do not have massive financial resources. They monitor individual behaviours all the time, to the point that anyone attrmpting to 'feed' a fobt with hundreds of pound (money laundering) will find the machine closes down on them. People who criticise betting shops have no idea what goes on, but they feel entitled to assume the worst, to the point that they even know how much people spend on a bet or an afternoon!

I have an online account, I know exactly how much I have put in to that account in the last four years, and if I checked my own bank account I could find out how much I have taken out. This month I have taken out a hundred pounds and put in £15, I only know this 'cos it is unusual, to take out so much, my account is limited to a deposit of £25per month.

There are more pubs than betting shops, and they are populated by people who spend ridiculous amounts of money in then instead of going to the super arket and buying a 12pack of Stella and drinking themsrlves silly at home. Scotland i troduced a min cost for alcohol and cut back on 'offers/multi packs, but I expect there are just as many drunks and alcoholics as there ever were. I don't see a Temperance movement taking iff in the UK, those who disaprove of alcohol probably never go in to pubs, but they know they are bad places, full of people spemding their last penny on drink.

Edited November 5, 2020 by LadyG

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

I don't think you or Athy have been in a betting shop in the last ten years, if ever , but you think you know they are bad places, full of stupid  people who are spending their last penny every day, that is how I imagine these unregulated amusement places are run, but as I explained before, the betting shop is run by International organisations, at the moment they pay moneys back in to the racing industry, a significant part of the funding of racing comes from betting organisations.

The British Racing Industry is huge, all parts are important, if the betting shops closed permanently, and I think they have closed many thousands this past two years, £millions are lost to the treasury,  money is lost to the Local Authority, to staff, etc etc.

International companies who own and run the betting shops will just remove the selves from the UK.

Addicted gamblers are a minority, they may end up in prison or on the streets, but they are few and far between, the betting industry is overseen by the Betting Industry Authority, and others, they are subject to draconian financial penalties and strictures if the do not take proven measures to prevent money laundering, addictive gambling, or heavy gambling from individuals who do not have massive financial resources. They monitor individual behaviours all the time, to the point that anyone attrmpting to 'feed' a fobt with hundreds of pound (money laundering) will find the machine closes down on them. People who criticise betting shops have no idea what goes on, but they feel entitled to assume the worst, to the point that they even know how much people spend on a bet or an afternoon!

I have an online account, I know exactly how much I have put in to that account in the last four years, and if I checked my own bank account I could find out how much I have taken out. This month I have taken out a hundred pounds and put in £15, I only know this 'cos it is unusual, to take out so much, my account is limited to a deposit of £25per month.

There are more pubs than betting shops, and they are populated by people who spend ridiculous amounts of money in then instead of going to the super arket and buying a 12pack of Stella and drinking themsrlves silly at home. Scotland i troduced a min cost for alcohol and cut back on 'offers/multi packs, but I expect there are just as many drunks and alcoholics as there ever were. I don't see a Temperance movement taking iff in the UK, those who disaprove of alcohol probably never go in to pubs, but they know they are bad places, full of people spemding their last penny on drink.

I have been in more betting shop than yourself I can assure you! I used to be a asbestos surveyor and spent a couple of years surveying a well known large chain of betting shops. The attitude of everyone in the betting industry I met was fleece the customer without them realising it was happening! I agree that in most cases they are a pleasant place to be, but they exist to make a profit at any cost! So I have placed bets at the dogs and the horses but never in a shop. I have also placed to online bets one for brexit and the other for Donald winning last time but only bet on sure things, that's why I haven't bothered this time. 

[haggis]

If betting shops closed down it might see an end to horse racing. I can't understand how any sane person can condone something which is far from kind to animals. From the use of whips on horses to making them jump high fences at speed and fall and have to be put to sleep. How can that be considered kind to animals? I don't care how much the horse racing industry puts into the country, is it worth it to see animals suffer for the "enjoyment" of humans?  What happens to racehorses who don't make the grade or who can no longer win?  Don't think they spend the rest of their days in a nice field, do you? 

I don't think I have ever been in a betting shop (did they not used to be illegal?) but I think anyone who thinks that gambling like alcoholism isn't a bit problem in the UK is waring blinkers and seeing what they want to see. 

 

haggis - an animal lover who hates animal cruelty in any form.