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November Lockdown (Two threads merged)


matty40s

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27 minutes ago, haggis said:

If betting shops closed down it might see an end to horse racing. I can't understand how any sane person can condone something which is far from kind to animals. From the use of whips on horses to making them jump high fences at speed and fall and have to be put to sleep. How can that be considered kind to animals? I don't care how much the horse racing industry puts into the country, is it worth it to see animals suffer for the "enjoyment" of humans?  What happens to racehorses who don't make the grade or who can no longer win?  Don't think they spend the rest of their days in a nice field, do you? 

I don't think I have ever been in a betting shop (did they not used to be illegal?) but I think anyone who thinks that gambling like alcoholism isn't a bit problem in the UK is waring blinkers and seeing what they want to see. 

 

haggis - an animal lover who hates animal cruelty in any form. 

Thoroughbred horses in the Uk are well looked after, from foal to maturity.

 The people who look after them are well trained professionals. They look after animals and all that involves because they love animals. 

There is no doubt horses are injured in national hunt racing, they get immediate veterinary attention and put down soonest if necessary. I have been fortunate, the only horses I have seen break a leg were not racehorses, they stand still and wait their fate quietly if a vet or other qualified person has to be summonsed.

Statistics prove that risk of death and injury year by year is the same from birth to maturity, that is why they cost much the same to insure,  all horses not just racehorses.

It is far better that racing is kept legal and transparent than under the radar as would happen if it was 'stopped in the UK' 

 

Every where there is competition, and that means any sport, there will be betting, most sports betting is on football, which is heavily promoted by the betting industry.

The racing industry is seen as part of the betting industry,, so immediately has many opponents, those who take the moral high ground, who live in a world where evryone goes to Church on Sunday, brings up children to respect their elders and so on, they do not realise that is not the norm, they want it to be the norm, so they mix with normal' friends . Orher take the Animal Rights option, I have met some of them, and know that many were just thugs.

Racing has tried to change the attitude of those who link racing and betting shops, but it is ingrained. racing and beting are two pieces in the jigsaw that makes up the economy.

 

Edited by LadyG
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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Thoroughbred horses in the Uk are well looked after, from foal to maturity.

 

 

It is the time beyond maturity which was concerning Haggis, when they are too old to race.  I know of an organisation which rescues ex-racing greyhounds I have never heard of one which rescues ex-racehorses.

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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Thoroughbred horses in the Uk are well looked after, from foal to maturity.

 

 

You're joking!!! Or do you mean being sent abroad to be sold as meat is being well looked after?  Or being shot and used as dog food in this country? I agree that they are probably well looked after while they are earning money for their owners by winning but as soon as that stops it is curtains for the horse. 

 

haggis

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24 minutes ago, haggis said:

You're joking!!! Or do you mean being sent abroad to be sold as meat is being well looked after?  Or being shot and used as dog food in this country? I agree that they are probably well looked after while they are earning money for their owners by winning but as soon as that stops it is curtains for the horse. 

 

haggis

Retraining of Racehorses. The charity for the welfare of horses who have retired from racing.

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9 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

It  is excellent that such an organisation exists and thank you for bringing it to my attention. While it is good news that some ex racehorses go on to be retrained in other disciplines, there is no way the majority of the 7,000 or so horses retired from racing each year can be helped by that organisation and there are still a lot of ex racehorses who do not have such a good future. 

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have been in more betting shop than yourself I can assure you! I used to be a asbestos surveyor and spent a couple of years surveying a well known large chain of betting shops. The attitude of everyone in the betting industry I met was fleece the customer without them realising it was happening! I agree that in most cases they are a pleasant place to be, but they exist to make a profit at any cost! So I have placed bets at the dogs and the horses but never in a shop. I have also placed to online bets one for brexit and the other for Donald winning last time but only bet on sure things, that's why I haven't bothered this time. 

Well said.  Bookies are temples of misery for so many people.  The Betting industry have proven themselves completely incapable of self-regulation and have tried to find loopholes in the law at every turn, leading to increased problem gambling and underage gambling.  Gambling websites are just as bad.

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2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Well said.  Bookies are temples of misery for so many people.  The Betting industry have proven themselves completely incapable of self-regulation and have tried to find loopholes in the law at every turn, leading to increased problem gambling and underage gambling.  Gambling websites are just as bad.

Agreed. The National lottery isnt much better. Whilst it does give to charity because it has to its still those at the bottom of the food chain that buy the stupid thing hoping to become a milionaire. Its just dressed up to seem a nicer way to throw your money away.

As for the new Lockdown ? Ive just been to my localish fave dog walk woods by car and there is a busy a road motorway roundabout that was just as rammed in every direction as ever. Not a jot of difference round here.

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Agreed. The National lottery isnt much better. Whilst it does give to charity because it has to its still those at the bottom of the food chain that buy the stupid thing hoping to become a milionaire. Its just dressed up to seem a nicer way to throw your money away.

Since the lottery the number of adverts you see for gambling and other lotteries (charities and otherwise) has exploded.

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41 minutes ago, Jerra said:

It is the time beyond maturity which was concerning Haggis, when they are too old to race.  I know of an organisation which rescues ex-racing greyhounds I have never heard of one which rescues ex-racehorses.

The racing industry has addressed these concerns and there are plenty of places for the ex racehorse.

The Racing Establishment can only do so much, if the owner of the horse chooses to pay his bills and remove the horse then abandons in to the fates there is nothing to stop him, it is the same for any horse, or dsg, or farm animal. There are ordinary people out there who do just that, we had to have three staffie types put down and a greyhound re-homed when they were abandoned in their kennels on rented premises The dogs hed not been fed or cleaned for some time, we looked after them for a bit, to asses the situation, but in thr end it was agreed that only the greyhound could be re-homed

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9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Well said.  Bookies are temples of misery for so many people.  The Betting industry have proven themselves completely incapable of self-regulation and have tried to find loopholes in the law at every turn, leading to increased problem gambling and underage gambling.  Gambling websites are just as bad.

This is completely untrue.

Gambling is a legal activity, and is high.y regulated,you will not see many people under the age of 21 in a betting shop, they will be challenged for proof of identity, they really don't like the atmosphere and will go to those amusement  places instead.

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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

This is completely untrue.

Gambling is a legal activity, and is high.y regulated,you will not see many people under the age of 21 in a betting shop, they will be challenged for proof of identity, they really don't like the atmosphere and will go to those amusement  places instead.

Which are every bit as bad!!

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23 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Well said.  Bookies are temples of misery for so many people.  The Betting industry have proven themselves completely incapable of self-regulation and have tried to find loopholes in the law at every turn, leading to increased problem gambling and underage gambling.  Gambling websites are just as bad.

 

Usually seeing Match of the Day, adverts for gambling are plastered all over the place, and on the players' strips; they get minus marks for that.

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

This is completely untrue.

Gambling is a legal activity, and is high.y regulated,you will not see many people under the age of 21 in a betting shop, they will be challenged for proof of identity, they really don't like the atmosphere and will go to those amusement  places instead.

I didn't say underage gamblers were in betting shops.  Read what I said properly.

 

I could provide hundreds of examples, here's just one:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/15/nine-out-of-10-pubs-in-england-fail-to-stop-underage-gambling-fruit-machines

 

The gambling industry is an entirely amoral entity which is more than happy to push vulnerable people to bankruptcy and suicide.  Even when regulations are introduced to protect from this, the industry is constantly finding new ways to circumvent the law.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46286945

 

Edited by doratheexplorer
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The Government effectively reduced the legal age for Gambling when they set up the Lottry, making it seem OK  for everyone to gamble at any age, it actively encouraged people to think that they  could get rich quick , made it a normal progression from playing those fruit machine type 'games' from school days playstations and gaming, to make the transition from 'wining' fluffballs, and pbonus plays' to real money. That is mainstream gambling, nothing more than fixed odds betting. 

A raffle is a type of gambling, people buy tickets in order to support a charity, I am currently the recipient of a raffleI did not even enter, an empty Fortnum and Mason  wicker basket is my requested christmas present, I also got truffle mayonaise and   ground  coffee.

When Iwas 'on the comitte', I was charged withorganising the raffle, this consisted of asking the more affluent members to donate prizes, topping it up with a few bottles, and selling tickets, I think the value of the prizes was not far off the income raised,so it was not sometbing I ever did again.

21 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Which are every bit as bad!!

They are worse , far worse because they encourage the young to transition to addictive gambling games using real money. They are equivalent to alcopops.

They are not subject to overal authorities, the don't support Gambleaware 

They don't want to control excessive gambling, they are not mainstream 'the betting industry', they are owned and run by those people Asbestos Pete met thirty yezrs ago.

Things have changed. The UK betting industry is highly regulated, but the people who criticise have closed minds. They are always right in their own minds. They won't change their views.

Edited by LadyG
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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The Government effectively reduced the legal age for Gambling when they set up the Lottry, making it seem OK  for everyone to gamble at any age, it actively encouraged people to think that they  could get rich quick , made it a normal progression from playing those fruit machine type 'games' from school days playstations and gaming, to make the transition from 'wining' fluffballs, and pbonus plays' to real money. That is mainstream gambling, nothing more than fixed odds betting. 

A raffle is a type of gambling, people buy tickets in order to support a charity, I am currently the recipient of a raffleI did not even enter, an empty Fortnum and Mason  wicker basket is my requested christmas present, I also got truffle mayonaise and   ground  coffee.

When Iwas 'on the comitte', I was charged withorganising the raffle, this consisted of asking the more affluent members to donate prizes, topping it up with a few bottles, and selling tickets, I think the value of the prizes was not far off the income raised,so it was not sometbing I ever did again.

They are worse in that there are no controls, they are owned and run by those people Asbestos Pete thirty yezrs ago, things have changed.

Wasnt 30 years ago I am afraid and Smith still does them on refurb along with Gala bingo, they are not places of pleasure the are called profit centres 

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15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The Government effectively reduced the legal age for Gambling when they set up the Lottry, making it seem OK  for everyone to gamble at any age,

No they didn't!   There is an age limit below which you are not allowed to purchase lottery tickets.    To me you seem to be desperately trying to defend gambling because you enjoy it.

 

You quote a week where you took money out, how many weeks a year do you not come out on top?  When I was very young my Dad said in response to me commenting on what the local bookies son could afford  "you never see a poor bookie lad".

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

So, why are there any betting shops?

 

older generation .... these will close over time... much easier to catch people on their mobiles with 24 hours betting, no limits, no opening hours etc....  drag the young 'ens in to it..

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On 04/11/2020 at 08:26, Mike Todd said:

>>Some businesses are led by people who always have Plan B or adapt to circumstance (eg pubs moving into off sales) whilst others plough on regardless, often expecting someone else to solve their problems.<<

 

That's a very good point, and it is equally valid for huge multinationals and one-man-bands.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

So, why are there any betting shops?

 

For the same reason there are pubs!?...So people with the same addiction can socialize with each other and justify their addiction!!?:P

Edited by Leggers do it lying down
misspelling
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16 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

 betting, no limits,.

That's absolutely what I don't like about betting. An aficionado of alcohol or other drugs needs to spend only a finite amount per day to drink or take his fill, but gambling expenditure is limitless. It may be, as has been suggested in this thread, a good servant, but it sure enough is a bad master.

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Thoroughbred horses in the Uk are well looked after, from foal to maturity.

 The people who look after them are well trained professionals. They look after animals and all that involves because they love animals. 

There is no doubt horses are injured in national hunt racing, they get immediate veterinary attention and put down soonest if necessary. I have been fortunate, the only horses I have seen break a leg were not racehorses, they stand still and wait their fate quietly if a vet or other qualified person has to be summonsed.

Statistics prove that risk of death and injury year by year is the same from birth to maturity, that is why they cost much the same to insure,  all horses not just racehorses.

It is far better that racing is kept legal and transparent than under the radar as would happen if it was 'stopped in the UK' 

 

Every where there is competition, and that means any sport, there will be betting, most sports betting is on football, which is heavily promoted by the betting industry.

The racing industry is seen as part of the betting industry,, so immediately has many opponents, those who take the moral high ground, who live in a world where evryone goes to Church on Sunday, brings up children to respect their elders and so on, they do not realise that is not the norm, they want it to be the norm, so they mix with normal' friends . Orher take the Animal Rights option, I have met some of them, and know that many were just thugs.

Racing has tried to change the attitude of those who link racing and betting shops, but it is ingrained. racing and beting are two pieces in the jigsaw that makes up the economy.

 

I have not in recent times heard anyone in authority within the church take the moral high ground on betting and seek to oppose it in the way you suggest. However, the enormously important work done by Alan Smith, Bishop of St Albans and others, has highlighted the pernicious impact of FOBTs which are primarily located (deliberately) in areas of social deprivation. The matter was brought to the General Synod a while back which resoundingly endorsed the call for Government to take action to curb the impact that FOBTs have on those least able to afford and to resist. It is widely accepted that this work was a major factor in persuading the Government to take action and then to stop dragging its feet when it had committed itself to prompt action. I am pleased to say that I voted in favour of the motion.

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50 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's absolutely what I don't like about betting. An aficionado of alcohol or other drugs needs to spend only a finite amount per day to drink or take his fill, but gambling expenditure is limitless. It may be, as has been suggested in this thread, a good servant, but it sure enough is a bad master.

My late father was addicted to gambling...Maybe if I was a horse,I would have got some of his attention as a child!?

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