November Lockdown (Two threads merged)

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

In normal times I would agree but as the insurance companies have said, these are exceptional times. . I would be suprised if the armed forces offered their employees those terms. We are at war with an invisible enemy. Having said that if someone wanted to dip out I wouldn't think bad of them. 

I dont think teachers are fighting the virus 

[Rickent]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is apparently been proven that your immunity is only lasting about 5 months.

Every scientific organisation from the WHO downwards is saying herd immunity will not work, all that will happen is that millions will dies and the world will lose the older genarations (60 + years old) in adddition to a considerable number of 40+ year olds.

Sorry but that is untrue,  antibodies wane after a short period of time, the immune system remembers viruses via T cells, once infected and recovered, you are immune.

If this isn't the case what is the point of vaccination.

Vaccines produce herd immunity, that is how they work.

There are enough scientists out there, epidemiology experts and nobel prize winners that are trying to get governments to go herd immunity but we are listening to government advisors that have interests in pharmaceutical companies manufacturing vaccines.

Sweden went down the herd immunity route and they seem to be doing OK.

[Jerra]

18 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Herd immunity is the only thing that works,  we will ultimately achieve

Can you explain how that will be achieved,  Currently immunity seems to last only 5 - 7 months.   Which means if you had Covid in the early lockdown by now you would have lost or nearly lost the immunity.

 

So with such short immunity please  explain how we achieve herd immunity.

Just now, Rickent said:

Sorry but that is untrue,  antibodies wane after a short period of time, the immune system remembers viruses via T cells, once infected and recovered, you are immune.

 

That is then theory for most diseases.  However other coronaviruses don't act like that, you don't become immune to the 4 which cause the common cold or the flu ones.

[churchward]

3 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Sorry but that is untrue,  antibodies wane after a short period of time, the immune system remembers viruses via T cells, once infected and recovered, you are immune.

If this isn't the case what is the point of vaccination.

Vaccines produce herd immunity, that is how they work.

There are enough scientists out there, epidemiology experts and nobel prize winners that are trying to get governments to go herd immunity but we are listening to government advisors that have interests in pharmaceutical companies manufacturing vaccines.

Sweden went down the herd immunity route and they seem to be doing OK.

That is not the case there are plenty of virus and other disease we can catch more than once and not because it mutates but that eventually a bodies immune system looses the immunity over time. Sometimes that may be years and sometimes that may be months.

51 minutes ago, Rickent said:

If lockdown works,  why are we having another one.

If lockdown doesn't work, why are we having another one.

Do you only ever change the oil in your car once?

[Jerra]

8 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Sorry but that is untrue, 

You had better read this New Scientist article.   It is entitled:

 

It is bad science to say covid-19 infections will create herd immunity

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2257258-it-is-bad-science-to-say-covid-19-infections-will-create-herd-immunity/#ixzz6cXno9mR1

[matty40s]

15 minutes ago, Rickent said:

 

Sweden went down the herd immunity route and they seem to be doing OK.

You were doing well until you got to this bit. Sweden is now struggling, deaths and cases far higher than any of their Scandanavian neighbours, their hospitals are going to teach saturation within weeks. Chances are, they will have to have a proper lockdown this time.

[alias]

8 minutes ago, matty40s said:

You were doing well until you got to this bit. Sweden is now struggling, deaths and cases far higher than any of their Scandanavian neighbours, their hospitals are going to teach saturation within weeks. Chances are, they will have to have a proper lockdown this time.

To illustrate:

 

[Jerra]

31 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Sweden went down the herd immunity route and they seem to be doing OK.

Perhaps you had better read this Times article:

 

The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the World

 

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

[rgreg]

CRT update:

Our response to coronavirus

In these unprecedented times we are supporting the national effort to keep everyone safe, while making sure people still have the opportunity to gain the mental and physical benefits of being by the water.

As the Government has announced that, in England, from Thursday 5 November, non-essential travel should be avoided, and overnight stays limited to work purposes only, we are advising boat licence holders to restrict your movement and not to stay overnight on your boat unless it is your primary residence from Thursday. 

Boat licence terms & conditions regarding movement every 14 days will be suspended for the 4 week period from Thursday until 2 December when these restrictions are due to come to an end. 

We're currently updating our FAQs about coronavirus, which we will publish on Monday 2 November.   

The Welsh Government introduced a two-week lockdown from 23 October: take a look at our FAQs for more information.

We will keep the situation under active review and update you in line with changing circumstances and government guidance. Please refer to the government guidance for England and Wales for more information.

Sign up to Boaters’ Update and our stoppage notifications to get regular updates by email.

[alias]

39 minutes ago, Rickent said:

There are enough scientists out there, epidemiology experts and nobel prize winners that are trying to get governments to go herd immunity but we are listening to government advisors that have interests in pharmaceutical companies manufacturing vaccines.

I think you will struggle to find many scientists or doctors qualified to comment on medical issues who  are not funded by government (i.e. public funds) or the pharmaceutical industry one way or another.  

[magpie patrick]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Reported

And sent to the place of wailing and grinding of teeth

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I dont think teachers are fighting the virus 

 

They are fighting the immediate effects of the virus and the long-term consequences of the virus. 

[TheBiscuits]

14 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

And sent to the place of wailing and grinding of teeth

And I've just reported Alan's quote of the offending post as it contains the same link.

[Rickent]

35 minutes ago, alias said:

I think you will struggle to find many scientists or doctors qualified to comment on medical issues who  are not funded by government (i.e. public funds) or the pharmaceutical industry one way or 

 

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Can you explain how that will be achieved,  Currently immunity seems to last only 5 - 7 months.   Which means if you had Covid in the early lockdown by now you would have lost or nearly lost the immunity.

 

So with such short immunity please  explain how we achieve herd immunity.

That is then theory for most diseases.  However other coronaviruses don't act like that, you don't become immune to the 4 which cause the common cold or the flu 

 

 

[Jerra]

Just now, Rickent said:

 

 

 

As has been pointed out he is a single voice crying in the wilderness.   Now go and read the two links I provided you with.  Then you might be able to post some sensible facts.

[alias]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As has been pointed out he is a single voice crying in the wilderness.   Now go and read the two links I provided you with.  Then you might be able to post some sensible facts.

Not sure why my post was quoted alongside yours but I'll just point out that Yeadon's money comes from a nice fat redundancy payment and a pension from Pfizer. 

 

The scientific problems with his assertions in this video have also already been aired on at least two other threads here. Do we have to go through them again?

 

I suppose one thing about a disease with an exponential growth rate is that you don't have to wait very long before the conspiracy theorists arguments are disproved.

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by alias

[Alan de Enfield]

Fire bombings' looting, riots all starting to happen across Europe.
Local officials appealing directly to the Presdent of The European Council

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/01/governments-lose-control-virus-revolt-civil-unrest-continent

As Europe's governments lose control of Covid, revolt is in the air

On Thursday evening, huge traffic jams built up as Parisians attempted to flee the capital and head for second homes before a 9pm curfew. “The Parisians who have fled to their second homes,” he says “are running the risk of infecting inhabitants of provincial and rural areas. They have been very badly received.

“Inequalities between classes and between regions have been exacerbated by the pandemic. The truth is, social and cultural tensions have rarely been so acute in France, but the political classes are attempting to mask them by appealing to a sense of republican unity.”

 

 

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

As has been pointed out he is a single voice crying in the wilderness.   Now go and read the two links I provided you with.  Then you might be able to post some sensible facts.

https://time.com/collection/great-reset/

same rag that's promoting this madness.

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, Rickent said:

https://time.com/collection/great-reset/

same rag that's promoting this madness.

What about the New Scientist do you call that a rag as well?

 

EDIT to add what is wrong with a rethink about how we live.   Long past time in the opinion of many.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Jerra

[Slim]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It was interesting watching a Professor of 'infection dieseases' said last night that the problem that Europe has is that until they 'close their internal borders'they will never get it under control. The EU have refused to amend their 'freedom of movement' to get C19 under control.

 

She made an interesting presentation (including saying our Government had acted both incorrectly and waiting too long)

Was that the professor from Scotland on the BBC at around 4.30 yesterday afternoon? She was excellent. I don't know if a clip of her comments  are available but if so they are it is well worth watching.   

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Slim said:

Was that the professor from Scotland on the BBC at around 4.30 yesterday afternoon? She was excellent. I don't know if a clip of her comments  are available but if so they are it is well worth watching.   

I would suspect it will be available on iPlayer.   I agree excellent and worth watching.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Slim said:

Was that the professor from Scotland on the BBC at around 4.30 yesterday afternoon? She was excellent. I don't know if a clip of her comments  are available but if so they are it is well worth watching.   

That's the one - Edinburgh (I think)

 

If you happen to find a link I'd be keen to watch it again. She made a lot of sense.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's the one - Edinburgh (I think)

 

If you happen to find a link I'd be keen to watch it again. She made a lot of sense.

This is the link it she starts just over 21 minutes in.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pj5h/bbc-news-special-coronavirus-update-31102020

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

This is the link it she starts just over 21 minutes in.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pj5h/bbc-news-special-coronavirus-update-31102020

Yup Proffessor Devri Sridhar (Chair of Global Public Health)

 

I think she makes a very good point in that the SE Asian population have more of a social conscience, they don't go into isolation to protect themselves, (they already have the virus) they do it protect others.

 

A very different culture to 'the West'

Edited November 1, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[alias]

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

This is the link it she starts just over 21 minutes in.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pj5h/bbc-news-special-coronavirus-update-31102020

This may also be of interest:

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2020/10/devi-sridhar-longer-uk-delays-lockdown-longer-it-will-last