Nearly New Boats, Snagging and Surveys

[Blue Knight]

My apologies to you all for not being on-line today but we're up to our eyes in a small house project.

 

Anyway, I'm back now and I would like to take the opportunity to thank you all for such informative answers.  You're a great bunch.

 

A quick update if I may: Nicky and I sat down at length last night and went through a few pros and cons on the 'WB v NB' argument and we both agreed that I (mainly me!!) would get highly frustrated if I couldn't make full use of the C&RT network due to the restrictive size and length of our boat.

 

To than end we are starting to look at a few NBs for sale and for comparison too. One will be the 2005 57ft 2-pack hull NB (£45K) mentioned in my previous post and the other is in Huddersfield (quite modern inside) which is a fully kitted 2001 55ft Liverpool boat @ £45K with an Isuzu lump.

 

The price-point is a lot more palatable than a WB and both boats seem to offer us the ability to tour the canal systems, rather than be stuck in a small area to the North.

 

For some reason the 2001 boat was blacked and surveyed last month but I'm hoping to know why the survey occurred; i.e. Is this normal practice for an owner to have a survey done or was it a sale that fell through due to problems.

 

I'll report back soon

 

Thanks to all,

 

Andrew

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Blue Knight

[blackrose]

On 16/08/2020 at 17:55, matty40s said:

The Grand Union has a saucer shaped profile, ....so boats like 

 

And ..

 

Which have passed us in the last 2 days, scrape bottom both sides of the hull on the siit most if not all of the time.

Even a 10foot wide one I moved from Marsworth to Weedon was sticking in the silt for large parts of the trip.

 

I kept my slab sided 12ft widebeam on the southern GU for 5 years. I went up as far as Leighton Buzzard and regularly up to Marsworth. I went down the Paddington arm a couple of times to Limehouse and back to the GU via the Thames. In those 5 years I never once scraped the bottom or the sides so either my boat has a very atypical underwater hull shape, the profile of the canal bed has changed dramatically in the last 10 years or you're talking absolute nonsense? ?

[WotEver]

10 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

To than end we are starting to look at a few NBs for sale and for comparison too.

If you see one you like don’t go away and think about it. If it’s priced right it will sell in a day. If it doesn’t then it’s probably over priced. 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Blue Knight said:

For some reason the 2001 boat was blacked and surveyed last month but I'm hoping to know why the survey occurred; i.e. Is this normal practice for an owner to have a survey done or was it a sale that fell through due to problems.

It is not common for the seller to have a survey done, and I'd be worried that :

 

1) he was trying to use it to avoid having an 'independent survey' done by the buyer and is concealing something.

2) the survey found something and the sale fell thru'

 

If you do go ahead - make sure you have your own survey done.

[blackrose]

23 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That's just a bit of rust, consider the hulls with welds missing altogether! I know personally of one with multiple welding repairs required, not through wear and tear but omission. 

 

And be in no doubt that these issues aren't confined to Collingwood by any means.

[Blue Knight]

 

 

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If you see one you like don’t go away and think about it. If it’s priced right it will sell in a day. If it doesn’t then it’s probably over priced. 

Yes, it does seem to be that way at the moment WotEver. I've seen a few of the larger boats which are struggling but, like motorhomes, the dealers can't seem to get enough of the things to sell.

 

Flying out the door like hotcakes comes to mind.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Blue Knight

[blackrose]

22 hours ago, dmr said:

As you have observed, there are quite a lot of nearly new big widebeams for sale, most likely from people going through a similar thought process to yourselves....lets get the biggest boat we can so that its comfortable like a house. It appears not to be working out for many. 

 

I'd agree with that. For many, widebeam ownership hasn't worked out, but I can't help thinking that in many cases that's because the owners were presented with some sort of luxury lifestyle and imagined they wouldn't need to be boaty at all. So the fact it hasn't worked out is less to do with the actual boats and much more to do with the owners. 

 

Anyway, I can only really talk for myself. Widebeam ownership has worked out well over the last 15 years and there's no way I'd go back to a sewer tube.

21 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would say anyone who spends £200K on a boat and gets rid of it in less than 2 years doesn't have much interest in boats and is just buying a floating home, consequently wouldn't know what wants fixing and whats normal. Unlike houses the builder does not visit after a year to do a snagging survey the owner has to chace the builder.

Yes this is all true.

[Tracy D'arth]

Bear in mind the precious incarnation of Collingwood was Liverpool boats.

 

Look for Colecraft, Reeves, Mel Davis,Piper, Stoke on Trent, RLL and many other respected steel fabricators.

The fitters don't necessarily build the shells, but the shell is the foundation for a good boat.

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

 

When you are moving a boat like that you have to have someone looking down both sides of the boat to make sure you don't hit anything 

 

More nonsense. This forum never fails.

 

Comments like this display a complete lack of understanding. Do you get someone to look down the sides of your car as you take it though 6'6" width restrictions? Do you think lorry drivers get their mate to constantly look down the sides? No of course not because they know the width of their vehicles.

 

Somehow I've managed to move by widebeam all over the southern broadbeam system single handed without ever looking down the sides or hitting things.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by blackrose

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd have less than 6" each side if I could so it in the cruiser but I'm over 1' too high and 2 feet too deep.

One inch each side on the wheelhouse roof ? no fun had to be walked through  then a speedboat came the other way and wanted be to reverse back ? oh we laughed as the current carried me towards him.  It was the same on the way back not pleasant really especially with half a million gongoozlers

[Tracy D'arth]

19 minutes ago, peterboat said:

One inch each side on the wheelhouse roof ? no fun had to be walked through  then a speedboat came the other way and wanted be to reverse back ? oh we laughed as the current carried me towards him.  It was the same on the way back not pleasant really especially with half a million gongoozlers

Good job he had no sail up, you would have had to give way! 

[Keeping Up]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Good job he had no sail up, you would have had to give way! 

That depends if your boat is full-length or not (see Colreg 9b)

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

That depends if your boat is full-length or not (see Colreg 9b)

Could you tell in such a confined space?  Good point though, but canal rules, first in, first out.

[peterboat]

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Could you tell in such a confined space?  Good point though, but canal rules, first in, first out.

That was us then 

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Good job he had no sail up, you would have had to give way! 

 

The sailing vessel (the speedboat with a sail) would have had to give way to a widebeam in a narrow fairway irrespective of the widebeam's length unless the speedboat (with a sail) was over 20 metres OAL

 

In Rule 9 a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

I kept my slab sided 12ft widebeam on the southern GU for 5 years. I went up as far as Leighton Buzzard and regularly up to Marsworth. I went down the Paddington arm a couple of times to Limehouse and back to the GU via the Thames. In those 5 years I never once scraped the bottom or the sides so either my boat has a very atypical underwater hull shape, the profile of the canal bed has changed dramatically in the last 10 years or you're talking absolute nonsense? ?

10 years ago things got dredged and fixed.

A lot has changed since you were last here.

 

One of the boatmovers on the 1st boat pictured said he wouldnt be doing one of those again for love nor money.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is not common for the seller to have a survey done, and I'd be worried that :

 

1) he was trying to use it to avoid having an 'independent survey' done by the buyer and is concealing something.

2) the survey found something and the sale fell thru'

 

If you do go ahead - make sure you have your own survey done.

 

ABNB are trying to make having a survey before sale a condition of sale, some other brokers recommend having survey/blacking/anodes done so the boat can be sold and taken away quickly.

Most surveyors will transfer the ownership of the survey for a small fee in these circumstances. I would find out who has done the survey and take it from there.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I kept my slab sided 12ft widebeam on the southern GU for 5 years. I went up as far as Leighton Buzzard and regularly up to Marsworth. I went down the Paddington arm a couple of times to Limehouse and back to the GU via the Thames. In those 5 years I never once scraped the bottom or the sides so either my boat has a very atypical underwater hull shape, the profile of the canal bed has changed dramatically in the last 10 years or you're talking absolute nonsense? ?

Or you know what you are doing when steering your boat, unlike so many other wide boat owners.

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

More nonsense. This forum never fails.

 

Comments like this display a complete lack of understanding. Do you get someone to look down the sides of your car as you take it though 6'6" width restrictions? Do you think lorry drivers get their mate to constantly look down the sides? No of course not because they know the width of their vehicles.

 

Somehow I've managed to move by widebeam all over the southern broadbeam system single handed without ever looking down the sides or hitting things.

 

Ok. I missed the smiley. My comment was in response to DMR's about having a disagreement with the other half.

 

[Richard10002]

23 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

 Unlike houses the builder does not visit after a year to do a snagging survey the owner has to chace the builder.

That is not my experience after over 30 years in the property business.... you must have been very lucky with the builders you bought new homes from  

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Blue Knight said:

For some reason the 2001 boat was blacked and surveyed last month but I'm hoping to know why the survey occurred; i.e. Is this normal practice for an owner to have a survey done or was it a sale that fell through due to problems.

I have owned my boat since 2011 so, 8 years on, when I was lifting it for blacking and a bit of painting in September last year, I thought it would be good to have a survey. No thoughts of selling but, given that a lot can happen to steel in 8 years...........

 

In the event, the surveyors I contacted either couldn't make it, or didn't respond, so I didn't have a survey. It didn't matter, and I may revisit it next year.

 

I am posting because, if I had had the survey I was looking for, and had my circumstances changed such that I wanted to sell it shortly thereafter, my boat would have been blacked and surveyed, just like the one you are looking at, the posters here would have been equally suspicious, and all would ahve been entirely innocent, and the survey would have been very useful 

 

It isn't normal practice for an owner to have a survey, but it would only be a sign of a fallen through sale if it was not in the name of the owner. In fact, if the survey was available due to a fallen through sale, it would identify the reasons and you could take a view as to whether to proceed further.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

That is not my experience after over 30 years in the property business.... you must have been very lucky with the builders you bought new homes from  

 

We had our house built for us to our design on our own plot, on completion they handed over the keys but came back several times in the 1st few weeks to correct such things as 'stiff doors' etc. 

They came back after 12 months to do some rectification to cracking plaster, then came back in year 2 and year 3 for checks and any rectification we needed doing.

The house is 4000 square feet so was big enough to have a few problems but were very pleased with the quality of the build and the after-build service.

 

 

 

 

[MrsM]

On 16/08/2020 at 17:56, Blue Knight said:

Have you ever thought about writing a canal boat specific book.

 

I'd buy it. 

So would I!! Please do x

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The sailing vessel (the speedboat with a sail) would have had to give way to a widebeam in a narrow fairway irrespective of the widebeam's length unless the speedboat (with a sail) was over 20 metres OAL

 

In Rule 9 a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." The same Rule obliges a vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

 

 

Still us

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Still us

Yup, still your Right of Way.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yup, still your Right of Way.

That's cos we wus bigger than the little un an wud ave crushed I'm like matchwood!!! ?