Nearly New Boats, Snagging and Surveys

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

The wide narrowboats with slab sided hulls and no tumblehome look to be "designed" for static living in a marina rather than extensive canal navigation.

 

I suspect builders thought "we already know how to build narrowboats so lets make them wider". I suspect a wide narrowboat is much easier to build than a Dutch barge style craft.

 

...................Dave

Probably - and of course, if it's going to be a static floating home, its lack of curvaciousness will mean extra internal space, which will be a great benefit to the people who live in it. That's presumably why you don't see many static caravans with flowing lines.

[WotEver]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

I assume the wheelhouse retracts or collapses in some way.

I can see hinges all along the bottom edges of the frames, so it looks like it.

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

Probably - and of course, if it's going to be a static floating home, its lack of curvaciousness will mean extra internal space, which will be a great benefit to the people who live in it. That's presumably why you don't see many static caravans with flowing lines.

 

Static Caravans are the widebeams of the land ? Touring caravans are also a bit like boats, most are to a similar design and mostly not very interesting, but some of the old ones are wonderful.  Maybe the Airstream is a land based Hudson?

 

A bloke I used to work with referred to coach built camper vans as self propelling Caravans.

 

Right, thats enough forum for today, time to get the tools out and do some boaty jobs.

 

.................Dave

[Athy]

8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I can see hinges all along the bottom edges of the frames, so it looks like it.

Now that you come to mention it, that is a bit of a clue, yes.

[Slim]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

Right, thats enough forum for today, time to get the tools out and do some boaty jobs

I agree, I've got to go down my shed and sort out gear to finish off painting my roof.

A final point . Has anyone every seen a relaxed widebeam helmsman on anything other than a river?

Final, final point. Can't go down the shed, it's just started chucking it down,-stair rods. 

[Athy]

45 minutes ago, Slim said:

 

 Has anyone every seen a relaxed widebeam helmsman on anything other than a river?

 

From evidence presented on this forum over a number of years, it's quite rare to see one with a helmsman at all, with the honourable exception of our friend Blackrose.

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, WotEver said:

I do remember Twizzle. But whenever I’ve mentioned him in the past I’ve always been met with puzzled looks. So it appears it’s just you and me

 

I remember him too, (and Sparky the battery boy ?).

 

Here is a clip.

 

 

[WotEver]

38 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Here is a clip.

My goodness! Why ever did I like it...?

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

My goodness! Why ever did I like it...?

 

Yeah, nostalgia ain't what it used to be! ?

[Bee]

20 hours ago, Athy said:

Off-topic, but what an eye-catching craft that is - a sort of steel version of the French pénichette which is roughly the same size. I assume the wheelhouse retracts or collapses in some way.

'Collapses' is one way of putting it, each section is way too heavy and terribly solid. Its all double glazed (so no condensation)  and made of some sort of nameless dense brown wood . If I did it all again (no chance) I would do it much lighter. Its actually a replica Dutch harbour tug, I think that the penichette is possibly based on a tjalk but I don't know. Its all narrowboat mechanicals, Beta 43 and nothing exotic about it at all. For all that boaty shape it was quite hard work on parts of the K&A and the G.U. It is quite at home in European waters (Except going backwards when it goes in random circles)  and really could do with a bowthruster but they're a bit dear so it will continue going backwards in circles whilst I blame the wind /wife / everybody else.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Athy

[MrsM]

Hi Blue Knight. We are about a month or so ahead of you as we've just bought our first used NB after 25 years of camping, caravanning and motorhoming. We've bought a bog standard, rather tatty, 58ft, reverse layout, cruiser stern, 6'10" beam NB and are thrilled to bits with it. We will be heavy leisure users rather than liveaboards so the lack of extra width isn't such an issue for us. We certainly would not have experienced some of the amazing waterways that we've spent the last 9 days on had we bought a wider boat. To throw you yet another curved ball we met some very happy people in the Northampton area who live in glorious luxury on very beautiful WBs and keep smaller boats for moving around on. Given the relatively low price of used WBs per sq/ft of living area compared to NBs that is perhaps not such a bad idea? Not for us, but then we are lucky to have a house to go back to when we need it. Very good luck with your hunt and, like you, we were surprised at the variability of boat prices. We also were impressed with ABNB and were very taken with a beautiful semi-trad but it sold before we could make our minds up. We spent over a month travelling all over the country looking at every suitable boat and it pays to move quickly when you've found one you like (not quite sure why we ended up with our ugly duckling?! ?). If you get the Newark boat say hello because that is where we are heading once Meadow Lane has reopened! Happy searching. Mx

[Blue Knight]

13 hours ago, WotEver said:

Have you spent any time on a narrowboat?  If you’re used to a motor home then the width is much the same, you simply have far more length. Layout makes a huge difference, those with a corridor down half the length of the boat feel claustrophobic to me. It is self-evident that a wider boat will feel more spacious but until you’ve spent some time on a narrowboat you won’t really know what it feels like. 

Not really, WotEver, I am only experienced in GRP boats (amateur level) and motorhomes (experienced) but the missus and I have a good understanding of how we like to live in small spaces.

 

It seems that the sales of NB/WB are so buoyant at the moment that we could probably manage to buy something very affordable this year, have an adventure or two for a year and then change if necessary for something bigger or more appropriate to our needs.

 

I would like nothing better than to make a good choice first time around but I think I'm wishing too hard there?

 

The big positive is that the annual operating cost of an NB would certainly be more palatable to that of a WB.

 

 Thanks for your advice,

 

Andrew

 

[WotEver]

24 minutes ago, MrsM said:

not quite sure why we ended up with our ugly duckling?

Because it chose you

[Blue Knight]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You want 'curved ball' - a 12' 6" foot beam will pretty much navigate those exact same waterways. The manufacturer is making a 'Marketing statement' to lull you away from wider boats.

 

The problems come into play when you meet another 12 foot beam boat going the other way and the 'channel' (the dredged bit) is only 20 feet wide (just enough for two 7 foot boats to pass)

 

Theory and practice are very different 'beasts'. The reality of cruising a 'fatty' (as I think you found out) is not always pleasant.

 

 

 

My short experience of WB boats, in tight spaces, Alan, was not good and I'm tending to lean to your last paragraph sir.

 

Moreso I'm still pondering a few thoughts over the reasons why you left the scene in Oct-19 to go back to choppy water. You are clearly a very knowledgeable and experienced chappy so I'm taking your points very seriously indeed.

 

One of the main reasons why Nicky and I are leaving the motorhome bubble is that it is becoming ever more restrictive to use a motorhome in the UK, hence the reason why the boat scene really appeals (and I have no interest in wandering around France or Spain either).

 

The only thing going in my favour is that my wife said the other day "we're still young'ish and should just go for it".

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

 

 

[Blue Knight]

13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Just to add to your confusion, I think a 9ft boat is worse than a 7ft boat.

 

On the 14ft broad canals you have to do all the locks by yourself as you are too wide to share, there's a 5 or 6 foot gap between the boat and the lockside so you can't easily cross using the cabin roof and you have to open all 4 gates.

 

I think the best size for the Northern canals is about 57 x 12 feet.  14 feet is too wide for easy cruising as some lock gates won't fully open if there is silt or debris behind them.

 

55 x 12 would be easier on the C&H when it reopens but 57 will fit.

Now that's what I call a proper curved ball. Can I call myself 'quietly assessing' instead of confused.

 

...............Nah, lets just stick with confused ?

 

Do you run a 55x12 yourself?

[MrsM]

17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Because it chose you

So true! ? And I'm sure Blue Knight's boat will choose him too.

[Blue Knight]

Just now, MrsM said:

So true! ? And I'm sure Blue Knight's boat will choose him too.

.........so the actual boat choice is a bit like Harry Potter; i.e. the wand chooses the wizard.

 

?

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Blue Knight said:

.........so the actual boat choice is a bit like Harry Potter; i.e. the wand chooses the wizard.

 

?

Absolutely. 

[MrsM]

1 minute ago, Blue Knight said:

.........so the actual boat choice is a bit like Harry Potter; i.e. the wand chooses the wizard.

 

?

Haha yes it is rather, regardless of how sensible you try to be at the start.

[Blue Knight]

12 hours ago, dmr said:

And then there is the issue of moored boats, especially wide'uns. The K&A for example was designed for wide boats but the designers did not plan for lines of moored boats intruding into the channel. A couple of bits on the K&A down towards Bath can be tricky enough in a narrowboat. Also some of the wide canals were never really built for widebeams, the locks were widened to take a pair of narrowboats side by side.

 

The Rochdale is no longer really a widebeam canal, especially  at the Manchester end, it can be done but its not enjoyable, This leaves the L&L and the Wigan flight as the only cross-Pennine route.

 

...............Dave

That's a useful set of points Dave.

 

We would have been better off the other day in the WB if it were not for a few boats that were moored in some right dodgy locations (on tight bends and close to the entrance of a bridge etc).

 

............we also had a NB day tripper boat crew who decided to slow down and stop in the middle of the canal. That was fun as the disc breaks on our WB just didn't work well. I best consider fitting bigger callipers, discs and pads next time eh ?

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

Edited August 18, 2020 by Blue Knight

[Blue Knight]

14 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Haha yes it is rather, regardless of how sensible you try to be at the start.

 

You know what's going to happen though, don't you..........One boat will choose Nicky and one will choose me.

 

Solo travelling it is then ?

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Blue Knight said:

That's a useful set of points Dave.

 

We would have been better off the other day in the WB if it were not for a few boats that were moored in some right dodgy locations (on tight bends and close to the entrance of a bridge etc).

 

............we also had a NB day tripper boat who decided to slow down and stop in the middle of the canal. That was fun as the disc breaks on our WB just didn't work well. I best consider fitting bigger callipers, discs and pads next time eh ?

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

There are a fair few widebeam owners who love it all and make it look easy. I have a strong image of a small woman with dreadlocks on the K&A who handled a big dutch barge single handed without ever looking stressed or even slightly out of control. The problem is people who move to the canals on the strength of watching a TV program and aspire to buy a boat that is as close to a house as they can find. I suspect the answer is to start with a narrowboat, do some boating and cruising the system, and then move to a wider boat if that's what you then feel is right for you.

 

........................Dave

[Blue Knight]

1 hour ago, MrsM said:

Hi Blue Knight. We are about a month or so ahead of you as we've just bought our first used NB after 25 years of camping, caravanning and motorhoming. We've bought a bog standard, rather tatty, 58ft, reverse layout, cruiser stern, 6'10" beam NB and are thrilled to bits with it. We will be heavy leisure users rather than liveaboards so the lack of extra width isn't such an issue for us. We certainly would not have experienced some of the amazing waterways that we've spent the last 9 days on had we bought a wider boat. To throw you yet another curved ball we met some very happy people in the Northampton area who live in glorious luxury on very beautiful WBs and keep smaller boats for moving around on. Given the relatively low price of used WBs per sq/ft of living area compared to NBs that is perhaps not such a bad idea? Not for us, but then we are lucky to have a house to go back to when we need it. Very good luck with your hunt and, like you, we were surprised at the variability of boat prices. We also were impressed with ABNB and were very taken with a beautiful semi-trad but it sold before we could make our minds up. We spent over a month travelling all over the country looking at every suitable boat and it pays to move quickly when you've found one you like (not quite sure why we ended up with our ugly duckling?! ?). If you get the Newark boat say hello because that is where we are heading once Meadow Lane has reopened! Happy searching. Mx

Hi M, that's a really fantastic and encouraging bit of advice and thanks for posting it up.

 

I would be interested to hear more of your travels, adventures and experiences.

 

Many thanks,

 

Andrew

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

There are a fair few widebeam owners who love it all and make it look easy. I have a strong image of a small woman with dreadlocks on the K&A who handled a big dutch barge single handed without ever looking stressed or even slightly out of control. The problem is people who move to the canals on the strength of watching a TV program and aspire to buy a boat that is as close to a house as they can find. I suspect the answer is to start with a narrowboat, do some boating and cruising the system, and then move to a wider boat if that's what you then feel is right for you.

 

........................Dave

Dave, I think that's the plan from now onwards; i.e. try something manageable and reassess from there.

[TheBiscuits]

8 hours ago, Blue Knight said:

Do you run a 55x12 yourself?

 

No, a 45 x 7 as I wouldn't want to miss out on the narrow canals ...

 

I have steered many different sizes of boats on the Northern canals though, sometimes to show their owners how to control them and sometimes just to help friends move their boats.

 

My comments about the 14 foot beam are from practical experience of getting stuck in locks where the tailgates won't open.  I am well practiced in clearing debris and silt from behind or under lock gates, so there was serious effort put into trying to open the gate, not just one push and give up.

[matty40s]

8 hours ago, dmr said:

There are a fair few widebeam owners who love it all and make it look easy. I have a strong image of a small woman with dreadlocks on the K&A who handled a big dutch barge single handed without ever looking stressed or even slightly out of control. 

That could be WiltshireWanderer off here.

Being a Dutch barge means it was probably  boat shaped under the water, not brick like the modern Collingwoods and Aqualines.

They do tend to float better and not drag the sides as much.