Declaring a home mooring

[Mike Adams]

19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Just make all moorings within (say) 1 mile each side of a 'popular area' limited to 24 or 48 hours and leave the remainder at 14 days. That would mean that nice spots (or in the centre of cities) could not be hogged and would become free for more users.

You could make the default mooring period say 48  hours at any location but give everybody say 6 scratch off permits each year to allow them to stay for up to 14 days anywhere that was not 24 hours.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think that a lot of new CCers (and maybe some old-timers) don't realise that it is the legal responsibility of the boater to convince C&RT that they are 'bona fide' navigating, it is not beholden on C&RT to prove they are not.

 

C&RT's suggestion that the boater keeps a log book is often viewed as an unnecessary intrusion into the 'freedom of boating'.

 

 

 

If you follow FB you will often see the question when is the licence checker at a certain place. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by ditchcrawler
Ask Matt

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I don't think 14 miles a fortnight is unreasonable but I don't see why it's necessary.

I would argue that as you agree that movement is necessary, a distance of some kind is also necessary.

 

Given that you agree that boats should “move” at the end of any mooring period, whether that be 14 days, (or less if specifically stated), you are opening up a can of worms to require that the meaning of “move” be open to definition.
 

Much simpler to provide an unambiguous and reasonable minimum distance, (unavoidably arbitrary). You have agreed that a mile a day is not unreasonable, so one could wonder why you resist?

 

I suppose it could be open to discussion as to whether this distance is the minimum per move, or the minimum per year, (or some other period).

[matty40s]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you follow FB you will often see the question when is the licence checker at a curtain place 

They dont know, the curtains are always shut.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Am I the only one who thinks; the way things are at the moment are pretty good?

And there’s no need for any faffing about re jigging the rules?

They’re simple and allow for some flexibility. 

 

My only annoyance is there are possibly too many 24hr and 48hr moorings appearing. Especially annoying where there’re no boats to be seen.

I like to make a slow journey spending time in villages and towns. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, matty40s said:

They dont know, the curtains are always shut.

Ta, you could have corrected it

[matty40s]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Ta, you could have corrected it

I'm no mod!!

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Am I the only one who thinks; the way things are at the moment are pretty good?

And there’s no need for any faffing about re jigging the rules?

They’re simple and allow for some flexibility. 

 

My only annoyance is there are possibly too many 24hr and 48hr moorings appearing. Especially annoying where there’re no boats to be seen.

I like to make a slow journey spending time in villages and towns. 

 

 

 

There is a big difference between the situation in the North and the South (particularly the Southern cities)

Just now, matty40s said:

I'm no mod!!

Wot - you never had a Scooter ……………………..

[Jerra]

37 minutes ago, Goliath said:

My only annoyance is there are possibly too many 24hr and 48hr moorings appearing. Especially annoying where there’re no boats to be seen.

I like to make a slow journey spending time in villages and towns. 

Surely all you have to do is moor just beyond the marked restrictions.

[Arthur Marshall]

42 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Am I the only one who thinks; the way things are at the moment are pretty good?

And there’s no need for any faffing about re jigging the rules?

They’re simple and allow for some flexibility. 

 

My only annoyance is there are possibly too many 24hr and 48hr moorings appearing. Especially annoying where there’re no boats to be seen.

I like to make a slow journey spending time in villages and towns. 

 

 

No, most of us would agree with you.  a lot of the argument is purely out of interest!

 

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Surely all you have to do is moor just beyond the marked restrictions.

Sometimes you physically can't, unlike the classic mooring on the Middlewich link where you can ONLY actually get into the side just outside the marked moorings.

 

[PhilR]

50 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

My only annoyance is there are possibly too many 24hr and 48hr moorings appearing. Especially annoying where there’re no boats to be seen.

I like to make a slow journey spending time in villages and towns. 

 

 

I reckon the appearance of more 24 hour and 48 hour moorings is great. It gives hire boaters and private holiday boaters more chance of finding an overnight or 2 day mooring.  CCers still have the same opportunity to occupy those moorings within the 24 or 48 hour time constraints. I reckon it helps to release honeypot moorings for visitors to towns and villagers. Anyone who wishes to stay longer should find a mooring outside the restricted area …. simple!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, PhilR said:

I reckon the appearance of more 24 hour and 48 hour moorings is great. It gives hire boaters and private holiday boaters more chance of finding an overnight or 2 day mooring.  CCers still have the same opportunity to occupy those moorings within the 24 or 48 hour time constraints. I reckon it helps to release honeypot moorings for visitors to towns and villagers. Anyone who wishes to stay longer should find a mooring outside the restricted area …. simple!

I think they’re unnecessarily increasing. 
I always think of the Shroppie and Middlewitch Arm that’s got more short term moorings than can ever be used. 
 

I’m trying to think of good example within a town. 

But hey ho, if that’s my biggest irritation, and it’s only a mini irritation in the grand scheme of things. 
 

It’s Probably just because I’m a lazy arse and don’t like walking to the local anyway

[Mike Todd]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There have been a number of posts on here that say "it wouldn't stand up", or "it wouldn't be allowed" or the "whole idea is nonsense" etc etc but  I do not recall ever seeing any legal action or discussions about this.

 

What you say would make sense but I'd suggest that the  way the law is written " …….

 

the Board are satisfied that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere; or

 

 

Does not say it must be able to 'get there under its own steam' just that it must be 'usable'. It could be argued that the Fat Boat had been lifted out and trucked to the South for a few months cruising, and that when they wanted to 'go home', it would be lifted out and trucked back to the North.

 

 

I wouldn't want to hazard a case against the possibility that the judge decided that the mooring must be available to/usable by the boat concerned!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I wouldn't want to hazard a case against the possibility that the judge decided that the mooring must be available to/usable by the boat concerned!

If it is 'big enough' then the mooring is usable by the boat concerned.

If there is no other boat using it then it is available to be used by the boat concerned.

 

The fact that it gets there by water, or by truck is irrelevant.

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I don't think 14 miles a fortnight is unreasonable but I don't see why it's necessary. What are we actually trying to achieve by enforcing distances on boaters? Is it so that we abide by the "spirit" of bona fide navigation? To what end? So that particular areas don't get clogged up and everyone gets a fair go at a mooring in a nice location? Maybe?

 

But is that really a problem outside certain areas? I certainly remember the vast majority of the canals and rivers I visited on my big cruise last year that most days I saw a handful of boats outside moorings and on some days I wouldn't see another boat.

 

I realise it's difficult to apply certain rules to certain areas and so a wide brush is far easier to apply.

As in so many matters with human behaviour, the problem arises when the marginal becomes the average.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is 'big enough' then the mooring is usable by the boat concerned.

If there is no other boat using it then it is available to be used by the boat concerned.

 

The fact that it gets there by water, or by truck is irrelevant.

You may well be right but, as I said, I'd not want to hazard a case on it!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The answer is really quite simple (but the Baton Twirlers would be up in arms)

Just make all moorings within (say) 1 mile each side of a 'popular area' limited to 24 or 48 hours and leave the remainder at 14 days. That would mean that nice spots (or in the centre of cities) could not be hogged and would become free for more users.

 

It would need enforcing and the enforcement penalties applied but It would only take a few cases (examples being made) before it was realised that C&RT were serious.

That is not a terrible idea.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

14 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

That is not a terrible idea.

It is a terrible idea. 
Awful. 
 

How about town centre moorings are 14day and the outskirts are 24/48hr?

 

Then anyone spending a fortnight shopping, pubbing, using laundrette etc spending money gets priority and don’t have to walk so far. 
Those just staying 24/48 hr aren’t gonna be put out by the walk because they’re only staying a short time. 
And of course the 24hr boater can use the 14 day mooring too   
 

So why not make them all 14 day
 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I would argue that as you agree that movement is necessary, a distance of some kind is also necessary.

 

Given that you agree that boats should “move” at the end of any mooring period, whether that be 14 days, (or less if specifically stated), you are opening up a can of worms to require that the meaning of “move” be open to definition.
 

Much simpler to provide an unambiguous and reasonable minimum distance, (unavoidably arbitrary). You have agreed that a mile a day is not unreasonable, so one could wonder why you resist?

I think partly because this regimented X days and X miles distance, X miles range is very regimented and doesn’t allow much for flexibility and I’m not convinced of the necessity of it all. I certainly “get it” in the prime spots but if I was moored here:

 

 

Between Calverly and Apperly Bridge on the L&L. I’ve never, ever seen a boat moored there, it’s in the middle of nowhere. If I was sat there for a month, I don’t see what inconvenience I would be putting on others. If I moored only there and the other side of Saltaire before I got to Bingley, again pretty much in the middle of nowhere where no one moors for the entirety of the year, how would that cause other boaters any issue? Of course, as I said before it’s easier to enforce rules and regulations if the same rules and regulations apply everywhere rather than there being different rules for different parts of the network, although it’s not really beyond their capabilities - I wonder if they actually patrol some of those parts. Seems to me you could almost get away with mooring in those two spots throughout the course of a year. Not that I will.

 

Quote

I suppose it could be open to discussion as to whether this distance is the minimum per move, or the minimum per year, (or some other period).

I’m sure you’re probably right and perhaps there should be a reasonable minimum distance, it all just feels like bureaucracy for it’s own sake rather than anything else. 

[TheBiscuits]

27 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

If I moored only there and the other side of Saltaire before I got to Bingley, again pretty much in the middle of nowhere where no one moors for the entirety of the year, how would that cause other boaters any issue?

Those are daft moorings though ... You want to moor right outside Saltaire Brewery at Shipley, especially when the brewery tap and bottle shop is open.

 

It's one of the very few places I have ever overstayed, because the beer festival on day 15 seemed "reasonable in the circumstances!"

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I wonder if they actually patrol some of those parts. Seems to me you could almost get away with mooring in those two spots throughout the course of a year. Not that I will.

C&RT claim that every yard of their waterways is patrolled and checked every 14 days and if a boat is seen twice then it is logged in their boat records.

You can ask C&RT for your movement history and see where they have recorded you.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I think partly because this regimented X days and X miles distance, X miles range is very regimented and doesn’t allow much for flexibility and I’m not convinced of the necessity of it all. I certainly “get it” in the prime spots but if I was moored here:

 

 

Between Calverly and Apperly Bridge on the L&L. I’ve never, ever seen a boat moored there, it’s in the middle of nowhere. If I was sat there for a month, I don’t see what inconvenience I would be putting on others. If I moored only there and the other side of Saltaire before I got to Bingley, again pretty much in the middle of nowhere where no one moors for the entirety of the year, how would that cause other boaters any issue? Of course, as I said before it’s easier to enforce rules and regulations if the same rules and regulations apply everywhere rather than there being different rules for different parts of the network, although it’s not really beyond their capabilities - I wonder if they actually patrol some of those parts. Seems to me you could almost get away with mooring in those two spots throughout the course of a year. Not that I will.

 

I’m sure you’re probably right and perhaps there should be a reasonable minimum distance, it all just feels like bureaucracy for it’s own sake rather than anything else. 

Hardly bureaucracy for it's own sake - If there was no need to move, and/or no minimum distance required, boaters without a home mooring would be free to set up home anywhere they liked, and stay there permanently.

 

You are right when you say there are some places where this would cause little/no bother, but there are many places where it would.

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

C&RT claim that every yard of their waterways is patrolled and checked every 14 days and if a boat is seen twice then it is logged in their boat records.

You can ask C&RT for your movement history and see where they have recorded you.

They emailed me twice to say that I had been seen on the Llangollen Canal and didnt have a CRT licence. I emailed back to say that my boat would need to be a Tardis to have achieved what they were claiming, as I hadnt left the Bridgewater since October 2011. (I have actually left it twice since then... once when I spent a night outside The Dover Lock Pub, and another just before Plank Lane Bridge).

[PhilR]

3 hours ago, Goliath said:

It is a terrible idea. 
Awful. 
 

How about town centre moorings are 14day and the outskirts are 24/48hr?

 

Then anyone spending a fortnight shopping, pubbing, using laundrette etc spending money gets priority and don’t have to walk so far. 
Those just staying 24/48 hr aren’t gonna be put out by the walk because they’re only staying a short time. 
And of course the 24hr boater can use the 14 day mooring too   
 

So why not make them all 14 day
 

Goliath

 

I am wondering if your comment was tongue in cheek or whether you are just being a bit selfish.

Are you suggesting that boaters mooring for 14 days in one place contribute more to

the local economy than overnight visitors?

I would have thought overnight/48 hour visitors would be bigger spenders.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by PhilR

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, PhilR said:

Goliath

 

I am wondering if your comment was tongue in cheek or whether you are just being a bit selfish.

Are you suggesting that boaters mooring for 14 days in one place contribute more to

the local economy than overnight visitors?

I would have thought overnight/48 hour visitors would be bigger spenders.

 

 

Especially if it is a full hire boat intent on enjoying themselves rather than a single old codger trying to eke out his meagre pension.

Edited June 7, 2020 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Hardly bureaucracy for it's own sake - If there was no need to move, and/or no minimum distance required, boaters without a home mooring would be free to set up home anywhere they liked, and stay there permanently.

Well, that’s not entirely true. If you’re moored up in the middle of nowhere, you still have to move at some point to fill up with water and to get rid of your rubbish. The location I pointed out on the map, there isn’t a water tap or elsan point for miles in either direction. I don’t think I’m suggesting that there be no need to move at all, I’m talking about rural places where you go for miles without seeing another person or boat. If you let someone set up there for longer than the 14 days - and would anyone realistically do this? Maybe some but probably few - you’re not really going to inconvenience anyone. Moving them on just “because” seems to me like policing for no good reason. They’re not harming anyone, they’re not inconveniencing anyone and they’d have to move anyway to get rid of waste and top up with water. I’m not saying let people stay there permanently but 4 weeks? 6 weeks maybe? Saves the CRT sending people out every week to police the back end of beyond.

[Jim Riley]

Re licence checking days, a member here, who shall remain nameless, told me he knew where the boundary was and the routine, between the patch of 2 licence checkers. CMer Heaven!