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NervousPervous

GRP transport & launch

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Hi, after much to-ing and fro-ing about what boat I want & can afford I am currently thinking about dipping my toe in with a day boat or something with very basic overnight facilities, Max 20ft but probably nearer 17ft.

 

I have tried googling the answer to these questions but to no avail. 

 

1. How do you get a 17-20ft cruiser onto the canal or a river? Do Marinas have places to trailer them in or do they need craning? What are the logistics of launch from a road transport trailer?

2. How much would you say is the maximum weight sensible to safely self-transport and what kind of cruiser size would that be? Also what kind of towing vehicle would you recommend? I'm thinking it would be cheaper for me to hire said vehicle rather than pay someone else to transport the boat for me? I can't justify buying a large vehicle as I don't want a thirsty engine for daily use.

3. Finally, What kind of outboard HP would you recommend for both canal & river use? I've read that it can be hard to go slow enough in a GRP to steer effectively in the canal, does the HP make a difference to this? I would be on the canals to start with till I felt able to tackle a river but would want to make sure that I had enough oomph for the current when I'm ready.

 

Thanks all :)

Just thought I'd mention that I have a place to keep the boat out of the water - saving on mooring fees but obviously no use if I have to pay a fortune to get it in and out of the water all the time!

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Slipways which are how self launches are normally carried ore getting a lot less common on the canals other than at boat clubs, some I can think of are Ash Tree boat club on the T&M, Tamworth boat club and Stafford Boat club, Nantwich and above Hatton Locks, Mid Warwick Yacht Club, but how they would look on non members wanting to use them I dont know

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Aaah - Ok so I found a local canal slipway that charges £30 one way or £45 for both, with paid help available so I guess they would help me get it off and on the trailer.

 

So that's question 1 done! Cheers,

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Have a look here 

http://www.boatlaunch.co.uk/#/map

 

I found it via Google searching for "slipway guide". 

 

 

Not done towing myself but I think you would be fine with a normal car towing something like a 19ft Fairline with outboard. 10hp Honda should cover it comfortably. 

 

They (Honda 10) are heavy about 38kg so quite awkward to get on and off. Worth checking the transom condition if intending to tow with the outboard in place. 

 

Otherwise you could go for a 6hp which brings weight down to about 27kg then you can put motor in back of vehicle separately. 

 

Depends how strong you are. 

 

Edited by magnetman

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1 hour ago, NervousPervous said:

Hi, after much to-ing and fro-ing about what boat I want & can afford I am currently thinking about dipping my toe in with a day boat or something with very basic overnight facilities, Max 20ft but probably nearer 17ft.

 

I have tried googling the answer to these questions but to no avail. 

 

1. How do you get a 17-20ft cruiser onto the canal or a river? Do Marinas have places to trailer them in or do they need craning? What are the logistics of launch from a road transport trailer?

2. How much would you say is the maximum weight sensible to safely self-transport and what kind of cruiser size would that be? Also what kind of towing vehicle would you recommend? I'm thinking it would be cheaper for me to hire said vehicle rather than pay someone else to transport the boat for me? I can't justify buying a large vehicle as I don't want a thirsty engine for daily use.

3. Finally, What kind of outboard HP would you recommend for both canal & river use? I've read that it can be hard to go slow enough in a GRP to steer effectively in the canal, does the HP make a difference to this? I would be on the canals to start with till I felt able to tackle a river but would want to make sure that I had enough oomph for the current when I'm ready.

 

Thanks all :)

Just thought I'd mention that I have a place to keep the boat out of the water - saving on mooring fees but obviously no use if I have to pay a fortune to get it in and out of the water all the time!

There's quite a bit of useful information on the Wilderness Owners Club site. https://www.wilderness.org.uk/category/slipways-2  

 

If you can, try and have a go in a little outboard powered cruiser as yes the handling does take some getting used to, some are worse than others.  You really want the lightest engine possible so the boat is more balanced, 10hp is more than enough unless you are heading out to sea...   Those Wilderness boats have tiller steering which makes life a lot easier.  Steering an outboard with a tiller is actually great fun but most cruisers will have wheel steering and at canal speeds it can be tiresome especially if it is windy.  

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, NervousPervous said:

ooh - brilliant! thanks :)

2 points.

Many years ago I used tow and launch a Drascombe Lugger. At the time I was a strong, fit 6' 2" man. Even then it could be challanging. Many of the slips I could find fell well short of the description given. 

 

I've just looked on the site linked to earlier. I looked more closely at one (no names) that I know to this day. At least 6 years ago I and others struggled for several hours to help someone recover a sub 20' GRP cruiser out. Basically the slip had broken up completely . In the end the owner gave up and arranged to be craned out at a later date.

The only slips i ever found that were practical to use for day sailing belonged to sailing clubs most of which required membership.

Should add that the slip referred to above has got worse since then. Not sure the marina even advertises a slip any longer

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2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

There's quite a bit of useful information on the Wilderness Owners Club site. https://www.wilderness.org.uk/category/slipways-2  

 

If you can, try and have a go in a little outboard powered cruiser as yes the handling does take some getting used to, some are worse than others.  You really want the lightest engine possible so the boat is more balanced, 10hp is more than enough unless you are heading out to sea...   Those Wilderness boats have tiller steering which makes life a lot easier.  Steering an outboard with a tiller is actually great fun but most cruisers will have wheel steering and at canal speeds it can be tiresome especially if it is windy.  

 

 

 

 

Funnily enough the steering wheel and cruising chair are big pluses for me in a GRP although I do prefer the design of the Wilderness boats. There's something about sitting at the wheel of a GRP that I really fancy. Don't know why, have yet to try it out :)

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Re. going slow enough and steering:

My Honda 10 hp outboard, on tickover, gives a very slow running speed. Leisurely walkers on the towpath overtake the boat.  

 

While you've got the boat out of the water, you might like to consider fitting an add-a-rudder.  They cost under £40 and make a big difference to steering, with a quicker and more positive response and this is specially helpful at slow speeds.  Even with no power on but some movement (such as dropping into neutral when coming in to the canal side) you still have some steering as long as the boat's moving.

Edited by Tom Morgan

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To answer that you / we need to know the weight of the boat, engine, fuel and anything you load into it and the weight of the trailer.

 

My 17 foot 'day-boat' weighed 680kgs WITHOUT engine, fuel or any accessories

The trailer was 355kgs

 

Something like a land Rover Discovery or Mercedes ML270 will tow up to 3.5 tons.

A Renault Clio can tow 900kgs (if the car is loaded)

Many cars are limited to 2000 kgs

Electric vehicles are not homologated to tow trailers.

 

If you check 'the sort of car' you are thinking about, the specifications will show their towing capacity.

 

Remember - unless you are a 'wrinkly' with 'Grandfather rights' you need to take a separate driving test to be able to tow a trailer (big enough to carry most boats)

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

To answer that you / we need to know the weight of the boat, engine, fuel and anything you load into it and the weight of the trailer.

 

Something like a land Rover Discovery or Mercedes ML270 will tow up to 3.5 tons.

A Renault Clio can tow 900kgs (if the car is loaded)

Many cars are limited to 2000 kgs

Electric vehicles are not homologated to tow trailers.

 

If you check 'the sort of car' you are thinking about, the specifications will show their towing capacity.

 

Remember - unless you are a 'wrinkly' with 'Grandfather rights' you need to take a separate driving test to be able to tow a trailer (big enough to carry most boats)

Thanks - I didn't realise I had to take an extra test, is this a new thing? Having towed (and reversed - ugh) caravans and trailers before I must say it is part of the task that I am not really looking forward to so perhaps a few lessons and a test would be a good idea!

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3 minutes ago, NervousPervous said:

Thanks - I didn't realise I had to take an extra test, is this a new thing? Having towed (and reversed - ugh) caravans and trailers before I must say it is part of the task that I am not really looking forward to so perhaps a few lessons and a test would be a good idea!

 

If you passed your driving test before 1/1/1997 you have 'grandfather rights' and can tow.

 

However :

 

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can:

  • drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
  • tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it's loaded.

You have to pass the car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

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Wot annoys me is that if I want to hire a 7.5t truck I now need a to sit a test/do a 5 day course.

I've been driving for yonks, driven tractors since I was 13, / combine harvesters, hay balers,  four wheel trailers, horse boxes, horse trailers, small cattle trucks, large cattle trucks, a bus [double decker]. bikes, aeroplanes, ships, RIBs. quad bikes, all more difficult than  what is essentially,  a large van. 

Very sadly: this week a guy was killed locally when his load shifted and he tried to secure it.

Just be careful.

Edited by LadyG

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3 hours ago, LadyG said:

Wot annoys me is that if I want to hire a 7.5t truck I now need a to sit a test/do a 5 day course.

I've been driving for yonks, driven tractors since I was 13, / combine harvesters, hay balers,  four wheel trailers, horse boxes, horse trailers, small cattle trucks, large cattle trucks, a bus [double decker]. bikes, aeroplanes, ships, RIBs. quad bikes, all more difficult than  what is essentially,  a large van. 

Very sadly: this week a guy was killed locally when his load shifted and he tried to secure it.

Just be careful.

Aeroplanes.  Antonov AN225 ? :)

An-225-Depart-MSP-1170x429.jpg

Edited by bizzard

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Obviously the pilot is a man. He can't see out the window, but no matter, he's  "flying by wire" 

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Doubt if its flying automatically taking off or landing.  Many folk don't really know what fly by wire means which is not really anything to do with auto pilot ''George'' All it means is that all the adjustable flying surfaces are not worked direct by mechanically cables and rods but are electric hydraulic controlled and wired up via computer and still needs the normal pilots input when flying manually.  Biggest plane in the world, that, and only one of them, Ukraniam built near Kiev.

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Same as modern car accelerator pedals. It's a wired system not a cable. No direct physical connection between pedal and engine speed control. 

 

 

Edited by magnetman

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58 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Same as modern car accelerator pedals.

And oil pressure gauges, rev counters, speedometers, hand brakes etc

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On 20/10/2019 at 18:01, LadyG said:

Wot annoys me is that if I want to hire a 7.5t truck I now need a to sit a test/do a 5 day course.

What really does not annoy me is that anyone driving a 7.5t truck on the public road has to have a licence as evidence they are capable of doing so safely. :P

 

 

  • Haha 1

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9 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

What really does not annoy me is that anyone driving a 7.5t truck on the public road has to have a licence as evidence they are capable of doing so safely. :P

 

 

q

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On 22/10/2019 at 08:34, Sea Dog said:

What really does not annoy me is that anyone driving a 7.5t truck on the public road has to have a licence as evidence they are capable of doing so safely. :P

 

 

Yes, I did always wonder if it made sense that you could learn to drive and pass your test in a mini (a real mini not the current half minibus!) then hop into a 7.5 tonne lorry.

 

And I say that as someone who took an old Bedford TK out for a long drive on the morning after my 18th birthday party!

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