BMV, Smartgauge, ammeter....

[Wittenham]

Promise passed its BSS resit today, trebles all around.  

 

I connected the BMV to the batteries, it reads 12.67 volts or so.  I have an unconnected Smartgauge and an ammeter still in its packaging, both gifts from the previous owner.  Is there a benefit to connecting up either/both of these?

 

thanks

[Rob-M]

Yes connect them all up so you can spend hours looking at the gauges to decide which is giving the best answer.

[Bod]

The Smartgauge is easy to fit, and simple to read.  Despite what some will say on here, Smartgauge will within it's stated limitations, give correct information.

Other systems do need very skilled setting up, and frequent recalibration to remain accurate. 

 

Bod 

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, Wittenham said:

Promise passed its BSS resit today, trebles all around.  

 

I connected the BMV to the batteries, it reads 12.67 volts or so.  I have an unconnected Smartgauge and an ammeter still in its packaging, both gifts from the previous owner.  Is there a benefit to connecting up either/both of these?

 

thanks

 

Congrats on the pass. 

 

The BMV IS an ammeter, so the additional ammeter would be redundant.

 

 

The Smartgauge would make a useful doorstop....

 

 

[Rickent]

If you have three, even better.

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Yes connect them all up so you can spend hours looking at the gauges to decide which is giving the answer you want to see.

Slight correction.

[Dr Bob]

I wouldn't be without an ammeter on my bote. BMVs are all you need if you learn how to use them and ignore SoC.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Bod said:

Despite what some will say on here, Smartgauge will within it's stated limitations, give correct information.

 

You need to come and look at two of mine then if you believe that.

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You need to come and look at two of mine then if you believe that.

Do you know which two to not believe?

Edited June 6, 2019 by TheBiscuits

[MtB]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

Do you know which two to not believe?

 

Yes. Two are shyte, one is accurate. 

 

Checked with a DVM tested for accuracy against another DVM checked for accuracy against a university instrument calibrated to something accurate.

 

That should do, shouldn't it? 

 

 

[Bod]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You need to come and look at two of mine then if you believe that.

 

 

If I recall correctly, you were advised, by many here, to return to the supplier, the ones, you felt were not reading correctly, and even the manufacturer asked you to return them.  I am not aware that you did.  

Apologies in advance if you did.

 

Bod

[Dr Bob]

A BMV tells you more than a smartgauge.If you have a BMV installed correctly then installing a smartgauge will only confuse unless you are knowledgeable about batteries and charging, in which case you can get benefit from both.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

If I recall correctly, you were advised, by many here, to return to the supplier, the ones, you felt were not reading correctly, and even the manufacturer asked you to return them.  I am not aware that you did.  

Apologies in advance if you did.

 

Bod

 

 

Whether or not I returned the two faulty ones is irrelevant. The point I was making is that of the three Smartgauges I purchased, two gave false and misleading readings new out of the box. And I do not 'feel' they give false readings as you insultingly put it, both give verifiably false readings, using calibrated instruments to test them. 

 

The reason I kept them is so I am able to refute posts like yours. Had I sent them back and been sent new, accurate Smartgauges I'm sure I would be accused of making a mistake. As it is, I still have them both and anyone who who doesn't believe I have two inaccurate Smartgauges is free to come and inspect and test them for themselves. . 

 

 

[nicknorman]

11 hours ago, Wittenham said:

Promise passed its BSS resit today, trebles all around.  

 

I connected the BMV to the batteries, it reads 12.67 volts or so.  I have an unconnected Smartgauge and an ammeter still in its packaging, both gifts from the previous owner.  Is there a benefit to connecting up either/both of these?

 

thanks

The BMV is useful to check voltages and monitor domestic battery charging current, the latter being the best way to know when the batteries are fully charged. The ammeter will not give any additional information if connected to the domestic batteries and has limited use if connected to the engine battery. I wouldn’t bother with it.

 

The smartgauge is very good at knowing the actual state of charge of the domestic batteries during discharge, and hence knowing when to start recharging. Comparing the State of Charge indications during discharge from the Smartgauge, and from the BMV set to the nominal battery capacity, is a really good way of knowing the health and actual capacity of the batteries (ie how much capacity has been lost due to battery ageing).

 

You should be aware that there was a batch of Smartgauges that left the factory badly calibrated and Mike the Boilerman had two. He refused to send them back to the manufacturer and instead runs a campaign to “rubbish” them on here. Which I feel is not helpful to people such as yourself.

 

A correctly calibrated Smartgauge is very useful. I have one which I use a lot. An incorrectly calibrated Smartgauge is of course rubbish. Since the Smartgauge works only by measuring voltage, it is quite easy to check the calibration simply by comparing the displayed domestic battery voltage with a known accurate voltage measurement from say an accurate digital multimeter or the BMV. If they agree, there is no problem.

 

We would all agree that it was bad that these Smartgauges were released by the factory badly calibrated, but that doesn’t change the fact that a correctly calibrated one is effective and useful.

Edited June 6, 2019 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

A correctly calibrated Smartgauge is very useful. I have one which I use a lot. An incorrectly calibrated Smartgauge is of course rubbish.

 

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

We would all agree that it was bad that these Smartgauges were released by the factory badly calibrated, but that doesn’t change the fact that a correctly calibrated one is effective and useful.

Agreed 100%. 

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

He refused to send them back to the manufacturer and instead runs a campaign to “rubbish” them on here. Which I feel is not helpful to people such as yourself.

Also agreed. It serves no purpose. 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

You should be aware that there was a batch of Smartgauges that left the factory badly calibrated and Mike the Boilerman had two. He refused to send them back to the manufacturer and instead runs a campaign to “rubbish” them on here. Which I feel is not helpful to people such as yourself.

 

Not really. I think the Smartgauge is an excellent piece of kit when it works. It just troubles me to see people writing about the Smartgauge as it is infallible. All I do is recount the facts with mine. 

 

Another fact is the faulty batch (as you put it, as if to minimise the problem they had) must have been quite big given I bought my two faulty Smartgauges 18 months apart. This means it is possible or even likely that ALL Smartgauges sold in that period, and possibly an indeterminate before and after too, were faulty. 

 

As yes they are easy to test for accuracy, but who ever does apart from me? 

 

 

I recommend all owners of a Smartgauge test theirs for accuracy as Nick describes. Of those here who did that, ISTR five or six were found. 

 

 

[Bod]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Whether or not I returned the two faulty ones is irrelevant. The point I was making is that of the three Smartgauges I purchased, two gave false and misleading readings new out of the box. And I do not 'feel' they give false readings as you insultingly put it, both give verifiably false readings, using calibrated instruments to test them. 

 

The reason I kept them is so I am able to refute posts like yours. Had I sent them back and been sent new, accurate Smartgauges I'm sure I would be accused of making a mistake. As it is, I still have them both and anyone who who doesn't believe I have two inaccurate Smartgauges is free to come and inspect and test them for themselves. . 

 

 

You are stating that 2 Smartgauges were not of merchantable quality, when you received them.  You have refused to return them for repair or replacement.

You have tested them against "calibrated" instruments, without knowing how these tests were done, and against what level of rigour, it is difficult to say how faulty the items are.

If they had been replaced, you would now have 2 useful instruments. 

Interestingly, I have had to return a Smartgauge, one much older than yours, and for a different fault, there was no suggestion that, I or anyone else had misused or misread the item, it was just quietly replaced.  In all I found the company fine to deal with.  (Usual disclaimers, no interest, except as a customer.)

 

Bod

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Bod said:

You are stating that 2 Smartgauges were not of merchantable quality, when you received them.  You have refused to return them for repair or replacement.

You have tested them against "calibrated" instruments, without knowing how these tests were done, and against what level of rigour, it is difficult to say how faulty the items are.

If they had been replaced, you would now have 2 useful instruments. 

Interestingly, I have had to return a Smartgauge, one much older than yours, and for a different fault, there was no suggestion that, I or anyone else had misused or misread the item, it was just quietly replaced.  In all I found the company fine to deal with.  (Usual disclaimers, no interest, except as a customer.)

 

Bod

 

 

All true. But you cannot deny they were selling faulty Smartgauges in the first place, which is all I am saying. 

 

You seem desperately keen to defend them. Very fishy. 

 

 

[cuthound]

11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I wouldn't be without an ammeter on my bote. BMVs are all you need if you learn how to use them and ignore SoC.

 

The SoC is reasonably accurate providing you check and adjust the battery capacity in the BMV settings menu at least twice a year and sync the BMV monthly when the battery is genuinely fully charged. However most people can't be arsed to do this and if you know how to understand at rest battery voltage readings, the percentage charge reading is uneccasary anyway.

 

The SmartGauge and BMV complement each other, you can use the SG to tell you discharged percentage and use the BMV to tell you how many amp hours that is and thus calculate the actual battery capacity.

Edited June 6, 2019 by cuthound
To add the last paragraph

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

All true. But you cannot deny they were selling faulty Smartgauges in the first place, which is all I am saying. 

 

You seem desperately keen to defend them. Very fishy. 

 

There are two entirely separate points at play, and I feel you tend to merge and confuse them.

 

1. The design of a Smartgauge is very clever, its functionality during discharge is to effortlessly show actual SoC, something no other device in common use on boats does. It is very easy to install. And as such, a Smartgauge is a very good and useful addition to any boat. These are the facts, nothing to defend here.

 

2. The manufacturing quality control went through a bad patch in that a number (quite possibly a large number) weren’t calibrated  properly (or at all) and thus give misleading readings. This is bad and there is no defence for it. However it is quite easy to determine if you have one of the bad ones, and you can send it back to be replaced. That is not a defence, merely a statement of fact.

 

In summary the good points about SG, which are inherent in its design, outweigh the annoyance of having to check once that the device is calibrated properly and possibly having to return it. Of course that shouldn’t happen, but life ain’t perfect! Anything else is cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

[bizzard]

Failure and catastrophe caused by modern computerised electronics has a new name. The aviation world pundits are calling it ''Automation Surprise''  ie Boeing 737 MAX.

I'm very happy with my little £3 dodgital Chinese voltmeter.

[Tony Brooks]

39 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Failure and catastrophe caused by modern computerised electronics has a new name. The aviation world pundits are calling it ''Automation Surprise''  ie Boeing 737 MAX.

I'm very happy with my little £3 dodgital Chinese voltmeter.

I wish I was as happy with my £30 digital Chinese voltmeter. I am sure it reads between 0.2 and 0.3 volts low. Not much good when assessing state of charge but at least wrong on the fail safe side of things.

[MtB]

47 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

There are two entirely separate points at play, and I feel you tend to merge and confuse them.

 

1. The design of a Smartgauge is very clever, its functionality during discharge is to effortlessly show actual SoC, something no other device in common use on boats does. It is very easy to install. And as such, a Smartgauge is a very good and useful addition to any boat. These are the facts, nothing to defend here.

 

2. The manufacturing quality control went through a bad patch in that a number (quite possibly a large number) weren’t calibrated  properly (or at all) and thus give misleading readings. This is bad and there is no defence for it. However it is quite easy to determine if you have one of the bad ones, and you can send it back to be replaced. That is not a defence, merely a statement of fact.

 

In summary the good points about SG, which are inherent in its design, outweigh the annoyance of having to check once that the device is calibrated properly and possibly having to return it. Of course that shouldn’t happen, but life ain’t perfect! Anything else is cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

 

 

Yes I agree with all of this.

 

And given that some (possibly a lot) of Smartgauges were sold inaccurately calibrated for a year or two, it seems sensible to warn people (e.g. the OP) about this, and recommend they check the calibration before relying on it? 

 

I don't feel pointing this out to people is cutting off my nose to spite my face, I've re-calibrated mine and they work fine now thank you. I DO however feel most owners of Smartgauges have no idea there was ever a problem and it should be pointed out when Smartgauges are being discussed, in case theirs is one of the faulty production run. 

 

 

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes I agree with all of this.

 

And given that some (possibly a lot) of Smartgauges were sold inaccurately calibrated for a year or two, it seems sensible to warn people (e.g. the OP) about this, and recommend they check the calibration before relying on it? 

 

I don't feel pointing this out to people is cutting off my nose to spite my face, I've re-calibrated mine and they work fine now thank you. I DO however feel most owners of Smartgauges have no idea there was ever a problem and it should be pointed out when Smartgauges are being discussed, in case theirs is one of the faulty production run. 

 

 

Pointing it out is fine. If you didn’t, I would! But comparing it to a doorstop isn’t quite the same thing. We knew what you were talking about, but it could have misled the OP.

Edited June 6, 2019 by nicknorman

[bizzard]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I wish I was as happy with my £30 digital Chinese voltmeter. I am sure it reads between 0.2 and 0.3 volts low. Not much good when assessing state of charge but at least wrong on the fail safe side of things.

£30 !!!! You were done Tony.