Hull survey without grinding off patches

[Boater Sam]

Thinking ahead a little to the 30 year survey of my hull.

At present it has a 2 pack epoxy zinc coating, 2 coats, onto bare steel and 6 to 8 coats of 2 pack epoxy black. This is all Sherwin Williams epoxy, originally from Leigh's paints of Bolton.

The base plate is uncoated.

 

This was done 20 years ago and apart from touching up scrapes it has had little attention over the years, just another coat of the black every 6 or 7 years.

The coatings are in excellent condition with no flaking or bubbling.

The zinc seems to be well bonded to the steel and has done a great job in preventing rusting.

 

So when it comes to the insurance inspection I am loath to have to grind of loads of patches from the sides for the ultrasonic thickness test.

 

The question is, can this testing be done without destroying the coatings? Has the equipment developed to the extent that it can test through the coatings?

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

can this testing be done without destroying the coatings? Has the equipment developed to the extent that it can test through the coatings?

My understanding is yes, but it needs to be the right tester and, probably more important, in the hands of someone who knows what he’s doing. I suggest you phone a few surveyors and see what they say. 

[NB Esk]

I believe the surveyor who usually does our boats has just upgraded his tester to one that doesn't need coatings removed.  Pricey equipment but the way forward.

 

 

[Boater Sam]

Any recommendations for a hull surveyor in the Middlewich local? With the better non destructive tester.

What's the going rate these days for 50' trad survey?

[David Schweizer]

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by David Schweizer

[Boater Sam]

9 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

I did not know that, I'm surprised as I thought all the companies required a survey, some at 25 years others at 30.

I've been with Craftinsure for 17 years, never claimed of course, who has? No reason to change but I will have to look into Saga, we are paying around £180 pa.

Saga must use different underwriters.

 

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

Eventually managed to complete their online form, hell that site is so slow.

You cannot get a quote for an appreciating asset, your purchase price has to be more than current value! No matter how long you have owned it or improved it, daft really when they boast that they will insure on agreed values.

Fudged it anyway, will see what they come back with.

Thanks for the info.

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

Eventually managed to complete their online form, hell that site is so slow.

You cannot get a quote for an appreciating asset, your purchase price has to be more than current value! No matter how long you have owned it or improved it, daft really when they boast that they will insure on agreed values.

Fudged it anyway, will see what they come back with.

Thanks for the info.

[WotEver]

30 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

will see what they come back with.

Even if it’s slightly pricier you save the cost of the survey. Unless of course you wanted an out of water survey for your own peace of mind too. 

[Fly Navy]

Thanks for the tip David.

[Dr Bob]

4 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

The question is, can this testing be done without destroying the coatings? Has the equipment developed to the extent that it can test through the coatings?

In answer to Sam's original question...prolly not needed now...the answer is yes. Our company ( a plastic testing lab) has equipment to test plastic pipe welds and easily shows thicknesses of plastic and metal (just standard ultrasonic probes - but with the right software). Whether you average boat surveyor has the right equipment or knows how to use it is, is a different matter. Technically it can be done and the right kit is available.

[koukouvagia]

5 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

Hmm.  I've just asked for a quotation from SAGA.  They want over £500 to insure my boat.  That's more than double my present premium and they require a full out of the water survey?.   I wont be changing.

 

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, koukouvagia said:

Hmm.  I've just asked for a quotation from SAGA.  They want over £500 to insure my boat.  That's more than double my present premium and they require a full out of the water survey?.   I wont be changing.

 

That's interesting, we payed something like £150, for a boat that was 35 yeard old,  Hampton is, of course, much older, which is what I suspect the higher quote is based on. They would not appear to be the people to use for an historic boat

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

They would not appear to be the people to use for an historic boat

 

They aren't!

 

Off topic, but our elderly Volvo V70 is insured with Saga for wife and I to drive.  It would have been helpful for something we are planning to do in a few weeks time to add a son to the cover at least temporarily for a week.  Son is 28, passed test over 5 years ago, and is accident & claim free, with no infringements ion his licence.

 

Saga's quote for this?  £200!   That's more than it costs for Cath and I to be covered for an entire year, and more than total insurance for a second car on which he is the main named driver.  OK, I know Saga is a company aimed at the over 50s, but £200?  That really is taking the proverbial.  Not very impressed with Saga right now

[Boater Sam]

16 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Have you tried to get an Insurance quote from SAGA? They do not require a hull survey on a Steel Narrow Boat (unless it is a Springer) for full Insurance cover. Our boat was 35 years old when we sold it, and the first hull survey it had in more than ten years was when it was being sold.

 

 

Eventually managed to complete their online form, hell that site is so slow.

You cannot get a quote for an appreciating asset, your purchase price has to be more than current value! No matter how long you have owned it or improved it, daft really when they boast that they will insure on agreed values.

Fudged it anyway, will see what they come back with.

Thanks for the info.

 

 

 

 

 

Got a quote, cheaper than Craftinsure @£168 pa but reading the policy document online they will not cover boat as a sole residence which it is for 8 months of the year. I'll have to ring them when back in UK.

Seem you cannot discuss a quote on line and they only write to you with the detailed quote.

Still cannot see how you ever insure as agreed value with them.

[David Schweizer]

7 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Got a quote, cheaper than Craftinsure @£168 pa but reading the policy document online they will not cover boat as a sole residence which it is for 8 months of the year. I'll have to ring them when back in UK.

Seem you cannot discuss a quote on line and they only write to you with the detailed quote.

Still cannot see how you ever insure as agreed value with them.

Surely If you live somewhere else for four months of the year, the boat cannot be considered as your sole residence. I seem to remember a similar condition with static caravans which are not considered as a sole residence if they are unoccupied for one month of the year, which I believe had to be a continuous period, not a combination of non contiuous weeks/days.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by David Schweizer

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Surely If you live somewhere else for four months of the year, the boat cannot be considered as your sole residence. I seem to remember a similar condition with static caravans which are not considered as a sole residence if they are unoccupied for one month of the year, which I believe had to be a continuous period, not a combination of non contiuous weeks/days.

 

 

 

That is how I have always looked at it but the way the form is worded the boat is my sole address in the UK and it is the same address as the mooring so they consider I have no other home!

My address in winter changes all the time as we move around and I don't think they would like an address in the Philippines either!

 

They are quite correct really, we live on the boat, just not all the time.

[Boredrider]

I am resurrecting this thread as I have the same problem as the OP.  My recently 2packed boat is currently advertised for sale, and I anticipate that any likely purchaser would be looking to have a survey done.  I am very reluctant to let a surveyor near the hull with an angle grinder!  So does anyone know of a surveyor, preferably in the North West, who has the expensive type of ultrasonic kit that will measure steel thickness through paint?

[OldGoat]

On 01/03/2019 at 16:18, koukouvagia said:

Hmm.  I've just asked for a quotation from SAGA.  They want over £500 to insure my boat.  That's more than double my present premium and they require a full out of the water survey?.   I wont be changing.

 

That's what happens when you try to get cover where the 'broker' knows didly squat about the risk. Perhaps they use 'dodgy policies at Lloyds' and talked to the aviation section.......

[David Mack]

On 01/03/2019 at 20:01, alan_fincher said:

 

They aren't!

 

Off topic, but our elderly Volvo V70 is insured with Saga for wife and I to drive.  It would have been helpful for something we are planning to do in a few weeks time to add a son to the cover at least temporarily for a week.  Son is 28, passed test over 5 years ago, and is accident & claim free, with no infringements ion his licence.

 

Saga's quote for this?  £200!   That's more than it costs for Cath and I to be covered for an entire year, and more than total insurance for a second car on which he is the main named driver.  OK, I know Saga is a company aimed at the over 50s, but £200?  That really is taking the proverbial.  Not very impressed with Saga right now

You can get temporary insurance for an additional driver, without going through your existing insurer. Several providers out there - google for "daily car insurance".

[Glynn]

1 hour ago, Boredrider said:

I am resurrecting this thread as I have the same problem as the OP.  My recently 2packed boat is currently advertised for sale, and I anticipate that any likely purchaser would be looking to have a survey done.  I am very reluctant to let a surveyor near the hull with an angle grinder!  So does anyone know of a surveyor, preferably in the North West, who has the expensive type of ultrasonic kit that will measure steel thickness through paint?

We used Jonathon B Jackson Ltd, Ulverston, Cumbria. He did the surveu without grinding. Very professional.

[hider]

28 minutes ago, Glynn said:

We used Jonathon B Jackson Ltd, Ulverston, Cumbria. He did the surveu without grinding. Very professional.

That is a bit extreme north west !

 

Any around in Cheshire or north Staffs?

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, hider said:

That is a bit extreme north west !

 

Any around in Cheshire or north Staffs?

Surly the buyer will specify the surveyor not you? 

[Glynn]

Extreme ?, he travelled to Barnoldswick, no problem.

[TheBiscuits]

32 minutes ago, hider said:

That is a bit extreme north west !

 

Any around in Cheshire or north Staffs?

Jonathan came down to Aqueduct marina to do our survey, it's catching him not in France or Scotland surveying yachts that is the trick.

 

He is also the chap that the big insurance underwriters use to do claims assesment, so the insurance brokers listen to what he says ...

[jetzi]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Surly the buyer will specify the surveyor not you? 

That's usually the case, but it seems reasonable as you are still the boat owner to have the right to reject any surveyor who would damage your coating?