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I've just realized why my count is so low, I don't venture out enough from the Virtual Pub. No, on second thoughts I don't think I should venture out from the Virtual Pub.

Not sure what you are driving at there. If one is representing "all boaters" then of course there will be people of this kind of opinion and other extremes too. In any organisation even if they do not wish to admit it there will be odd ball views and people on the outer limits of what may be seen to be the normal. As much as I may disagree with much of the view in the article the person has a right to express it regardless of another persons view of it or indeed an organisation representing a minority.

Just to be absolutely precise on the terminology, the DC system has a Positive wire and a Negative wire; it does not have a neutral. The AC system has a Live and Neutral, and an earth. As you say, on an AC system it is the Live and the Neutral that complete the circuit while the earth is there purely for protection. On the DC side, great care is indeed taken to isolate the Negative from the hull. This is to ensure that current returning from the load does not flow through the hull, because that would cause corrosion of the hull. However the DC negative is then securely bonded to the hull at one clearly defined point (the earth bond) that is usually near to the batteries. There are several reasons for this, one being a safety measure and one being to ensure bypass the unknown path through the engine ancillaries (prop-shaft, control cables, etc). As an example, consider the case where the battery positive cable shorted to the hull but there was no bond between the hull and the negative; a fault current would then flow back to, say, the Morse control lever and down the control cables to the engine and hence back to the battery; the Morse cables would probably catch fire. In addition to the need to the bond the DC negative to the hull, now consider the AC earth. If it were not bonded to the hull, there is always the possibility that under fault conditions there could be 240v between the earth and the hull (suppose the earth wire on your shore lead pulled out and dropped on to the live pin for example). This is obviously incredibly dangerous - imagine being in a kitchen where the taps were at hull potential because of the copper piping but the casing of the pop-up toaster was at 240v because of an earth fault! SO it makes sense to bond the earth of the AC system to the hull as well. This bonding also ensures that fuses, RCDs, and circuit breakers will all work as planned. There is one problem, as described further up however, that if these two bonds are one and the same there is a safety hazard if they become detached from the hull, and thus are bonded to each other but not to the hull. All the safety problems of an unbonded system happen at once, together with the risk that battery negative will become live at 240v if a fault causes the ac earth to become live. Finally the question of bonding neutral to earth, which is necessary to ensure that the live stays live and the neutral stays neutral, and also ensures that an RCD will work to protect you..When you are on shore power, this bonding is at the sub-station and does not need to be on the boat (unless there is an isolating transformer in the bollard beside the boat). If you power the boat's ac system from an inverter or generator, however, it is necessary for you to do what the power station does, namely to bond the earth to the neutral as close to the source of power as possible. I think that covers it - or does it? Ask again if I've not made it clear, things like this are too important to leave to chance.

Statistically, one in seven Dwarves is (are) Grumpy

Maybe he's grumpy because he's fed up with people judging him by his living situation and choice of boat.

You get more room and better facilities in an American maximum security prison cell as a live aboard forget it unless you're a hobbit or something, Even with the worlds biggest cratch cover it wouldn't be worth the money. K

A few points: the new generation of LED TVs have lower power consumption than their LCD predecessors. But I don't know what is available at 12v - we have a mains TV and use an inverter to power it. A typical modern smallish (21") LED TV uses about 30watts, that would be about 2.5 amps at 12v. You should consider whether you want terrestrial tv or satellite. This is a bit like pump out vs cassette. With terrestrial you will get a variable signal according to your location. To get an adequate signal anywhere you need a pretty big aerial on a pole. It can be harder to know where to point the aerial, since you don't get a picture until you retune the tv (if you have moved location). You can use a small omnidirectional aerial but you will probably be unable to get a picture in many places. With satellite, the dish is always pointed in the same direction and no need to retune the tv each time. The only thing is that you must have a clear view of the satellite - not through trees etc. It is at elevation of around 20 degrees at 158 degrees azimuth (ie SSE). Personally we prefer satellite and just consider exactly where we are going to moor (look at Nicholsons or google maps to check the line of the canal and whether there are trees to the SSE). But plenty of folk are happy with terrestrial. Pretty much all TVs have a built in digital tuner (so there is no need for what you call a digibox). Some have a built in Freesat tuner, although it might be better to get a tv with a separate Freesat tuner since you will have much more choice of TVs and of course gives you the option to have either satellite or terrestrial according to where you moor. If you go for satellite, I would suggest a magmount dish that you can take down when you are cruising, rather than some monstrous permanent fixture on the roof!

Or you could rename your boat "Dirtywater Fox No 2"

Well he does start it off by saying it's designed to provoke comment, so clearly he has been successful in that respect. My only point of agreement with him would be that, whilst there is no need to moan about dirty or tatty boats, there is a need to moan about piles of junk cluttering up the towpath. I can see no excuse for that. Fortunately it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. However, a nightly fee for Continuous Cruisers mooring, now there's an idea...

. Onanist! [quote Judging by his surname, quite possibly.

No, you are right. I certainly didn't mean that to be offensive. I quite forgot about Martin's recent loss (though maybe my ref to animal heaven was an unconcious thought) .... So to TDH please don't be agrieved with me ... I apologise for my clumsy timing

Ouch... i'm sure you didn't REALLY mean that to be as nasty as it sounded? (in view of TDH's recent loss i mean..) But then i'm quite a sensitive soul!

I have to disagree (my opinion of course). The primary responsibility is always for the moored boat to be securely tied. In exchange, I will slow to a reasonable speed when passing said boat. What I will not do is slow to 1mph passing a 1 mile length of linear moorings where the boats are all swinging like mad because no one can be bothered to tie properly. George ex nb Alton retired

people were living on the canals long before you were even born, let alone before you bought a boat. Learn to share, the same as the majority of us. If you like speed boating, bear in mind we are an island, surrounded by waters you can buy a speedboat for.

So now some want the canal to be a motorway.............. wonderful......

it was a serious comment. An attempt to find a reason for no-one applying for the vacancy of hand-holder. I'm inclined to volunteer but I haven't steered a cruise for 30 years, nor am I local but as no-one else is offering, I'll travel up and take you out for a couple of hours of practise Lily May. You'll prolly have to wait a week or two though... MtB

my mooring is on the Coventry canal Nuneaton br 24 , nine years ago we had 15 boats on the mooring , now we down to nine boats! when ask the moring officer the reply is crt policy to close down the number of on line moorings due to the marine in the area! we have a nice mooring on line with own garden and car park space not on tow path side , the lost of six boats around 4 k lost of funds, what the point? we have local boaters who wish to moor here

Is nobody free to ride shotgun for Lily May, just so she can get her confidence level up a notch or two Phil

Ask Martin ( The dog house ) to give you a few credits.

Who's been grave digging? Richard

Apologies again, I really didn't mean it to come across like that, I guess sometimes the internet can be more difficult to navigate than real life but I am still puzzled by this boat's steering system.

bow thrusters on a narrowboat are known to those in the know as "fish mincers" generally as thats all there use is...most of the time they are fitted to ladies boats along with pump out loo's inverters and smart gauges....also availible for men with no facial growth and office workers arms..

It has the affect to take over your life ..Things like this..If you met the guy and had dealings with him them like countless others past and present berth holders are exactly the same.. It is just some folk are more prone to loading the rifle and letting someone else pull the trigger. I don't think Paul G is jumping ship he is showing a degree of humanity towards another human being.. Whichin my background is you don't kick a man(? )when he is down and out! .I suggest we all revert back to page 3 and his viral exposure of his email!! For myself and cohorts of others we just want him out of our lifes!

For goodness' sake Martin give it a rest will you Your constant carping criticism is very wearing

Here's some more advice from another 'old fart' which you probably won't like, or even understand. A lot of brokers follow this board and those who do, now have a pretty clear understanding of the way you are thinking. This will help them achieve a better outcome (for them) for sales negotiations than otherwise. You may not have mentioned the next two boat names but brokers reading this board will now be keeping a weather eye open for a young lad with a bit of a demandy attitude. They even have a photo of you to help them recognise you when you turn up. Getting a clear understanding of the attitudes and motivations of the other side is always of enormous help in conducting negotiations. You probably won't really appreciate quite how much until you are quite a bit older, given your current attitude. Do let us know how you get on, AFTER concluding negotiations! MtB

Just for mischief, as MtB would have it - a case could be made for the marine industry members in future [supposing there will be a future for marinas on the canals] to suggest that CaRT actually pay them a percentage, for every off-line berth, that means a boat that would otherwise be taking up towpath space on CaRT waterways, is kept from congesting the [finite] navigable waterspace – while still being encouraged to be licensed, with all the attendant extra CaRT income entailed in increased licensed boat numbers. According to BW statistics, there are already more licensed boats on the system than there ever were boats [working or pleasure], on the system at the height of commercial freight use, i.e. more now than at any time in the past. If those numbers are to increase still more, as the authority wishes them to, then ‘storing’ them offline when not ‘in use cruising’ is going to be essential. That has to be worth CaRT paying an incentive premium for. Even for those boats that don't actually want to go cruising, better that they are offline than on, causing the sort of congestion problems both CaRT and numerous customers and neighbours complain of. Especially when s.8 is the only solution CaRT see to such problems. Better a small premium to an offline berth provider than a stiff legal bill and bad PR.

This as been a very interesting debate, but I would imagine that Lt Roland Wilson would like to put it behind him. Its nice to talk about the pros and cons off any situation, and hopefully we learn from it, but give the lad a rest. I don't know if he is a member on here but surely, whether he was in the right or wrong he as suffered enough with out us going over it. To be honest some of the debate as been quite personal between individuals and nothing to do with the subject matter and should be part of another thread. Anyway if I'm out of order pointing this out, tough! that's how I feel