Bins and recycling

[Johny London]

Just another one of my moans I'm afraid...

I've long given up trying to recycle anything. Used to keep all my glass separately etc and up north this seemed to be worthwhile. Down South there don't seem to be many useful recycling opportunities. Lately I've found it almost impossible to even find boaters refuse. 

It seems to me that all rubbish must eventually end up somewhere, so what is the point in making it hard for people by limiting disposal places? Not only that, but considering I'm talking about boaters facilities, why on earth do they not include oil banks too? 

They wouldn't put up with this in Germany...

 

 

Can we not have regular and consistent refuse and recycling locations? Is this something we could bring up with crt?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Johny London

[TheBiscuits]

The ones that irritate me most are the marked recyling bins that say very clearly "Loose plastic bottles and cans. No black bags, no general waste" - and look exactly like those ones because people ignore the signs.

Edited August 3, 2018 by NB Lola

[Boater Sam]

The percentage of boaters' bin waste that gets recycled is minimal anyway. The whole recycling system is flawed by the fact that it is worth nothing in real terms.

If it was undesirables would be stealing it.

Edited August 3, 2018 by NB Lola
Sensitive language

[BWM]

There certainly is a lack of facilities for refuse disposal around much of the system, but perhaps a bigger problem is boaters depositing items that should be taken to a refuse tip. These impractical items include mattresses, settees, fridges and most definitely waste oil. None of these are collected by bin men in a domestic setting, why should Crt be burdened with this expensive waste? And the rest of us have to put up with no space for ordinary domestic waste. Another issue I have experienced is caused by those too lazy to open the compound, raise the lid and place it inside the bin - others will cram the compound full of bags, rather than wait for them to be emptied. Both these scenarios result in the bins not being emptied as the driver doesn't have time, nor is it his job to do so.

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The percentage of boaters' bin waste that gets recycled is minimal anyway. The whole recycling system is flawed by the fact that it is worth nothing in real terms.

If it was undesirables would be stealing it.

You mean like they do in the fabric/clothes recycling banks?

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jerra

[Boater Sam]

I did specify bin waste, do you keep your togs in a bin? But precisely my point, the rag value is there but the waste that is most problematical is not rag.

Incidentally much of the clothing and shoes that isdonated for recycling or taken to charity shops ends up in the Far East, the markets in the Philippines are awash with American and European cast offs. New tee shirts for P10, about 15p!

Edited August 3, 2018 by Boater Sam
smellings

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The percentage of boaters' bin waste that gets recycled is minimal anyway. The whole recycling system is flawed by the fact that it is worth nothing in real terms.

 

Rubbish! In more ways than one!

Of course recycled materials are worth something.

To start with, the mixed waste as in the pics above costs the council circa £100/te to dispose of....either landfill or incineration. Take the recycle stuff out and thats a lot less material for the council to get rid off. That is big cost saved...so value to us! Paper, metal (ie Al cans), Glass etc are all worth recycling. OK, value of some of the materials has dropped but it is still viable to separate those materials. Plastics are an interesting one. 2 years ago, only 10% was recycled (ie milk bottles) with the rest bailed up and sent to the far east where the best bits were removed and the rest dumped in the rivers...only to end up in the sea. China is no longer taking it and therefore we have the problem of  recycling it. Does waste plastic have a value? I am involved with a company that is now using some very novel kit to separate mixed rigid waste polyolefins (from themselves and pvc/pet) and we sell the pure polyolefin as granules for £500 ish. We buy it in at £0, ie we take it off the collectors hands foc. Of course there is value in recycled materials.

The problem we have is every council collects its recycle in different ways and so it is not easy to see how you get value. The simplest way is two bins. One for black bag waste and one for mixed recycle ......if people could be trained to do that. Most of the waste locations on the canal in the Midlands though just seem to be all waste together. Recycling materials is not only good for the planet but it is going to save money for us in the long term with less waste for the councils to dispose of and no financial penalties for companies making stuff with no recycling.....how long is it going to be before the law says all plastic materials must contain 10% recycle?

[Dav and Pen]

We now boat in France and have done for many years. There have always been containers for glass but other waste was difficult to get rid of. The community recycling depots are usually only open to residents and in Belgium you needed a bar code to even gain entry to some of them. Now we are finding many more places for plastic and cardboard packaging know as the “tri” approach and the packaging has the tri mark on it if it is recyclable. Used oil is a problem but on the big rivers there are containers at some of the locks. General domestic waste is still a problem and there are very few skips for it, where they are specifically for boaters the locals still come and put there stuff it them. Rubbish bins on the roadside and in parks are useful if the opening is big enough to stuff a black bag through.

Luckily at my home mooring I have been introduced to the depot manager and now I have permission to take everything there.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Dav and Pen
Found photo

[Boater Sam]

Some truths in your comments Bob, but I have never seen a glass bin stolen, ally cans are cast aside, it takes 3 million to make 1 ingot. We weigh in steel scrap but the skip costs more than the profit on the scrap, no incentive at all.

The problem is that take the collection costs out of the equation there would be a value but include the collection, sorting and transport costs of small quantities of contaminated mixed waste and it is a negative profit. So no thefts of recyclable household waste take place. Its dumped in country lanes and field entrances all over.

 

My friend now lives in a sheltered housing estate, 63 households. Absolutely no recycling, the whole lot goes into black bags for landfill because the cost of enforcing proper segregation and storage  is prohibitive.

 

I have seen glass recovery wagons tipping in council tips, they use the cullet to make roadways on the tip because there is no profitable market.

 

Waste paper collection bins in our part of Cheshire have disappeared from every supermarket and town council car park site because they don't want it any more. Even the council tip which is now run as a business franchise rarely empty their paper bin because transport costs them more than the value recovered. So its always overflowing.

 

On our farm with alternate week collections of recyclables and general waste  we generates a lot of rubbish, frequently on the recycling days the whole lot goes in the same truck as landfill waste because they won't keep it seperate.

 

Sam.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

Some truths in your comments Bob, but I have never seen a glass bin stolen, ally cans are cast aside, it takes 3 million to make 1 ingot. We weigh in steel scrap but the skip costs more than the profit on the scrap, no incentive at all.

The problem is that take the collection costs out of the equation there would be a value but include the collection, sorting and transport costs of small quantities of contaminated mixed waste and it is a negative profit. So no thefts of recyclable household waste take place. Its dumped in country lanes and field entrances all over.

 

My friend now lives in a sheltered housing estate, 63 households. Absolutely no recycling, the whole lot goes into black bags for landfill because the cost of enforcing proper segregation and storage  is prohibitive.

 

I have seen glass recovery wagons tipping in council tips, they use the cullet to make roadways on the tip because there is no profitable market.

 

Waste paper collection bins in our part of Cheshire have disappeared from every supermarket and town council car park site because they don't want it any more. Even the council tip which is now run as a business franchise rarely empty their paper bin because transport costs them more than the value recovered. So its always overflowing.

 

On our farm with alternate week collections of recyclables and general waste  we generates a lot of rubbish, frequently on the recycling days the whole lot goes in the same truck as landfill waste because they won't keep it seperate.

 

Sam.

I blame councils for a lot of what you are saying. In Wales, they claim 80% of recyclable stuff is collected by the individual councils. Collect it and it can be recycled - even paper. If the economics dont stack up for any one material, you can be sure the rules will change so it is recycled. Contamination of paper is a big problem which hasnt been solved.

[ditchcrawler]

In Germany they wouldn't consider putting general waste in what is marked as a recycling bin or leave oil and batteries at the refuse point where there is a notice saying no oil or batteries. We passed the Middlewich Recycling centre the day before yesterday, someone just dumped their rubbish outside.

[Boater Sam]

That's unusual, its usually dumped in one of our farm gateways.

 

The Middlewich Recycling Centre is a case in point, no plastic bottles 'cept milk bottles, no paper labels or liners on cardboard cartons, anything with a recycling symbol on it that they don't understand goes in the landfill skip. Yet the timber skip is full of MDF and chipboard with screws and metal fittings.

They love taking anything they can weigh in for scrap, breaking perfectly good bikes, lawnmowers etc. Batteries this way please. But dispose of your waste oil and the plastic bottle goes in the landfill.

You are not allowed to walk in, boaters particularly, as it is "not a pedestrian area" even though right next to the canal. Oh, and disposing of anything they perceive as hardcore is chargable.

[Jerra]

Recycling seems to vary so much from area to area.  Our local "tip" recycling centre takes garden waste, rubble, cardboard, paper, hard plastic, soft plastic, small electrical appliances, fridges freezers, oil, car batteries, domestic batteries e.g. AA, fluorescent light bulbs, metal,  composite wood, solid wood and I think I might have missed some things.

 

However there are some daft rules - no 6 wheel vehicles, no double axle trailers and you can't walk in.  You can by arrangement get a permit for the 6 wheeler and the trailers.  I think they idea is that commercial enterprises are more likely to use the 6 wheeler/trailers or park outside and walk in with their stuff.

 

I have never worked out why businesses (who probably have the most to recycle) aren't allowed to.

[system 4-50]

2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

That's unusual, its usually dumped in one of our farm gateways.

 

The Middlewich Recycling Centre is a case in point, no plastic bottles 'cept milk bottles, no paper labels or liners on cardboard cartons, anything with a recycling symbol on it that they don't understand goes in the landfill skip. Yet the timber skip is full of MDF and chipboard with screws and metal fittings.

They love taking anything they can weigh in for scrap, breaking perfectly good bikes, lawnmowers etc. Batteries this way please. But dispose of your waste oil and the plastic bottle goes in the landfill.

You are not allowed to walk in, boaters particularly, as it is "not a pedestrian area" even though right next to the canal. Oh, and disposing of anything they perceive as hardcore is chargable.

I must have caught them on a good day when I walked in about 15 times having accumulated quite a backlog of offcuts and other rubbish.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Recycling seems to vary so much from area to area.  Our local "tip" recycling centre takes garden waste, rubble, cardboard, paper, hard plastic, soft plastic, small electrical appliances, fridges freezers, oil, car batteries, domestic batteries e.g. AA, fluorescent light bulbs, metal,  composite wood, solid wood and I think I might have missed some things.

 

However there are some daft rules - no 6 wheel vehicles, no double axle trailers and you can't walk in.  You can by arrangement get a permit for the 6 wheeler and the trailers.  I think they idea is that commercial enterprises are more likely to use the 6 wheeler/trailers or park outside and walk in with their stuff.

 

I have never worked out why businesses (who probably have the most to recycle) aren't allowed to.

Businesses have to pay

14 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I must have caught them on a good day when I walked in about 15 times having accumulated quite a backlog of offcuts and other rubbish.

A boater today did as well, there are even mooring bollards outside

[Boater Sam]

You did well, they must have liked you. Unless they have seen sense at last. 

The bollards outside are normally occupied by a boat belonging to one of the yard staff. The canal side cottage on the entrance road is for sale if anyone is interested.

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Businesses have to pay

Having been part of 2 businesses I know that.  The point I am making is that in our area at least it is cheaper to just have it taken away as rubbish.  If recycling is important more material would be recycled if it was free.  I know large companies can often recoup money on things they have to recycle but I am thinking of the small business say a high street shop.

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

You did well, they must have liked you. Unless they have seen sense at last. 

The bollards outside are normally occupied by a boat belonging to one of the yard staff. The canal side cottage on the entrance road is for sale if anyone is interested.

Sold and the boat is now moored between Barnton and Saltersford tunnel

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

That's unusual, its usually dumped in one of our farm gateways.

 

The Middlewich Recycling Centre is a case in point, no plastic bottles 'cept milk bottles, no paper labels or liners on cardboard cartons, anything with a recycling symbol on it that they don't understand goes in the landfill skip. Yet the timber skip is full of MDF and chipboard with screws and metal fittings.

They love taking anything they can weigh in for scrap, breaking perfectly good bikes, lawnmowers etc. Batteries this way please. But dispose of your waste oil and the plastic bottle goes in the landfill.

You are not allowed to walk in, boaters particularly, as it is "not a pedestrian area" even though right next to the canal. Oh, and disposing of anything they perceive as hardcore is chargable.

I have also twice walked into the Middlewich recycling centre with waste engine oil without any problem. A slightly comical aside was that the Chester recycling centre also says 'No Pedestrian Access' if I remember correctly, so I put the waste oil container in the pannier of my cycle and rode that in, no questions asked as I was now apparently a 'vehicle'.

 

 The only place I can remember there being an issue was in BANES (Bath) where you needed to prove residency (or you did in 2014, I don't know if it has changed now) to be allowed into the recycling centre. I even went into the council offices to ask how I could responsibly dispose of used engine oil, and the helpful lady there had no idea either. The follow up was that whilst in the local Halfords buying something else I asked the assistant there how I could get rid of waste engine oil, the muppet told me to tip it down the drain.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Wanderer Vagabond

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

I must have caught them on a good day when I walked in about 15 times having accumulated quite a backlog of offcuts and other rubbish.

I'm sure there is now a CRT sign on that mooring indicating you can use the tip.  Have they come to an agreement with the local council?

 

Admittedly I have just walked more than once before that sign went up, and got no aggro from the people on the site.

[Athy]

15 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

 

Luckily at my home mooring I have been introduced to the depot manager and now I have permission to take everything there.

 

That great French institution, "le piston"!

[mrsmelly]

Its seems obvious to me that whatever recycling methods have been introduced by the government must be correct as they will have taken advice from " Experts " like the ones that decided diesel engines are a great non polluting idea for motor cars.

[Boater Sam]

We get the "Where do you live" routine if we take a large item, TV, cooker or especially a fridge.

If the farm was 100yds further west, we would have to go to a different "recycling center".

Its the Cheshire East and Cheshire West dispute though what possible difference it makes I cannot imagine.

This came to light recently. Cheshire East will issue a bus pass in the local library, West it has to be on line. So the library is in East, but my bus pass issued a few years ago by the town hall nearby, still East, is for Cheshire West.

 

[Tanglewood]

Disposal of, or recycling, waste costs money.  Currently it is householders who pay the most through Council Tax.  I am on a lowish band (D) and pay nearly £2,000 per year for the services provided by my Local Authority.  My boat licence costs less that £1000.  There are 35,000 boaters, most of whom already pay through their licence, mooring fees  and Council Tax for waste disposal.  If folk are on their boats they are not using their bins at home - seems logical that this should be recognised and  that Councils and CRT ought to be better at ensuring rubbish is collected efficiently and hygienically.  

 

So far as commercial waste is concerned - if businesses are static they pay additional rates to have their waste disposed of - but that is waste that is created on a site.  Tradesmen will often dispose of householders waste, as part of the service - so again  in theory this has been paid for, because if someone takes their own old carpet to a tip in the boot of the car they are allowed to dispose of it, so what is the difference if a self employed carpet -fitter takes it for you?  Somehow though there seems to be a 'jobsworth' attitude which imagines that somehow waste is created by people who are not paying a Council to have that waste disposed of.  Then there is the problem of litter - which in some areas is nothing short of a national disgrace....

[dmr]

I have walked into the Middlewich tip many times over the last few years to dispose of engine oil and have never had a problem.

 

Over winter I went to the Winsford tip in the car. I was stopped at the entrance and asked if I lived in Cheshire. I expected to be asked for an address and ID (like they now do down South) so I confessed and said I lived on a boat. They asked if I was moored in Cheshire and when I said yes they let me in. Winsford tip is  the most organised and immaculate tip I have ever seen.

 

................Dave