Vetus Mitubish

[chopperit]

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

 

 

How does that work then?

To increase the low-speed torque of an engine is to increase the stroke, sometimes known as "shaft-strokin this is all that they are doing stroke comes from the piston thumb of rule 2 revolutions to ever stroke of the piston, have you heard of a re-bore , using over size rings ,  the block remains the same ,you re-bore it 

 

 Piston stroke. The distance the axis of the crank throws from the axis of the crankshaft determines the piston stroke  , bmw  mercedes they all do it ,  can you imagine the manufacturing cost to change the block on ever model ,  anyway its boring now this  don.t mean to be rude but i can not  be A with it anymore.

 

Dose anyone know a good cabinet maker around  Middlewich  

 

 

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, chopperit said:

have you heard of a re-bore 

By 5mm?  No. 

[chopperit]

On 08/05/2018 at 10:28, Gareth E said:

Another one to suffer from ridiculous Vetus spares prices. £92.50 for one set of piston rings, they are having a laugh. I had my work done at King's Lock. They accepted a head gasket that I found on Ebay, old stock, for 22.50 compared to the 80 odd quid of the Vetus one but when I suggested I supply the oil etc. they intimated I might want to pull my boat away rather than drive it. So, 30 quid for what, 2 litres of 'Vetus' oil.

 

I researched Mitsubishi parts and found Diamond Diesel and Real Diesels did them. They were a little cheaper, maybe 20 to 30 percent but still ridiculous prices.

 

I would never buy a Vetus engine, nor a boat that had one installed in it, and I spread the word. 

best think to do is find out what Mitsubishi block you have ,  why did you need a head gasket did head go ,how much did that cost ,

[Gareth E]

2 hours ago, chopperit said:

best think to do is find out what Mitsubishi block you have ,  why did you need a head gasket did head go ,how much did that cost ,

Real diesels and Diamond diesels were Mitsubishi parts, rather than Vetus branded.

 

My problem was that the piston rings were stuck in their grooves. This didn't seize the engine, they were stuck as to prevent them expanding and therefore I had very little compression. Cost me 730 quid, that was with me stripping down to enable the engine to be fork lifted out and then after it was lifted back in I recommissioned it. The 730 was for 2 sets of rings, new thermostat and gasket, heat exchanger gasket, oil, anti freeze and 10 hours of labour which seemed excessive, but what can you do? 

[chopperit]

 

how do you know this do you get some one with borescope to see what was going on , did you do a compression test ,

10 hours labor with the engine out , that taking Micky , i love to open up your engine and see what they have done ,  lot of the Mitsubishi blocks that were made for marine use or plant use use metal gaskets , they can be reused , 

 

but my advice, anyone that has an internal engine problem  get looked  at with a borescope can save a lot of money a messing around , do you only have a tiny engine bay ? you can change the rings with out removing pistons , its not a big job , i find it hard to believe all of the rings were gone did they give you back your engine bits top prove they had actually changed them ?  i would advise anyone to do this . 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by chopperit

[Bod]

10 hours ago, chopperit said:

 

how do you know this do you get some one with borescope to see what was going on , did you do a compression test ,

10 hours labor with the engine out , that taking Micky , i love to open up your engine and see what they have done ,  lot of the Mitsubishi blocks that were made for marine use or plant use use metal gaskets , they can be reused , 

 

but my advice, anyone that has an internal engine problem  get looked  at with a borescope can save a lot of money a messing around , do you only have a tiny engine bay ? you can change the rings with out removing pistons , its not a big job , i find it hard to believe all of the rings were gone did they give you back your engine bits top prove they had actually changed them ?  i would advise anyone to do this . 

 

 

 

Change piston rings, without removing pistons.

How is this done?

 

Bod

[Iain_S]

On 27/05/2018 at 19:09, Gareth E said:

(snip)

My problem was that the piston rings were stuck in their grooves. This didn't seize the engine, they were stuck as to prevent them expanding and therefore I had very little compression.  (snip)

Many years ago, Copperkins (the boat we used to have a share in) had a Vetus M4 which failed with the same symptoms. It was shortly after a re-build, and I put t down to the wrong rings having been used. They were jammed in their grooves, and I put it down to the rings not matching the pistons, with insufficient (i.e. no!) clearance between ring and groove. 

 

 

[Iain_S]

14 hours ago, chopperit said:

 

how do you know this do you get some one with borescope to see what was going on , did you do a compression test ,

10 hours labor with the engine out , that taking Micky , i love to open up your engine and see what they have done ,  lot of the Mitsubishi blocks that were made for marine use or plant use use metal gaskets , they can be reused , 

 

but my advice, anyone that has an internal engine problem  get looked  at with a borescope can save a lot of money a messing around , do you only have a tiny engine bay ? you can change the rings with out removing pistons , its not a big job , i find it hard to believe all of the rings were gone did they give you back your engine bits top prove they had actually changed them ?  i would advise anyone to do this . 

 

 

 

Not sure how a borescope can see the piston rings.

Have to say the only cylinder head gaskets I've met that I'd consider re-using are the ones on the Ruston Hornsby generators on a ship I;m involved with, and that's only after annealing and checking thickness. (The gaskets are all copper)

I also am interested in how to change piston rings without removing pistons. (Although a gynecologist who retrained as a mechanic was reputed to do it through the exhaust pipe  ) 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 hours ago, Iain_S said:

I also am interested in how to change piston rings without removing pistons. (Although a gynecologist who retrained as a mechanic was reputed to do it through the exhaust pipe)

There is unlikely to be much 'stretch' in an exhaust pipe , he must have had quite small hands.

[Eeyore]

On 29/05/2018 at 10:22, chopperit said:

 

how do you know this do you get some one with borescope to see what was going on , did you do a compression test ,

10 hours labor with the engine out , that taking Micky , i love to open up your engine and see what they have done ,  lot of the Mitsubishi blocks that were made for marine use or plant use use metal gaskets , they can be reused , 

 

but my advice, anyone that has an internal engine problem  get looked  at with a borescope can save a lot of money a messing around , do you only have a tiny engine bay ? you can change the rings with out removing pistons , its not a big job , i find it hard to believe all of the rings were gone did they give you back your engine bits top prove they had actually changed them ?  i would advise anyone to do this . 

 

 

 

There will be genuine worldwide interest in how to change piston rings without removing the pistons. I would suggest patenting the process immediately so that this lot on here don’t get their hands on it; or, not meaning to be rude, you could just say that you are bored with this conversation and walk away.

[Tony Brooks]

I am not sure how you would get a typical borescope into the cylinder. Into the pre-combustion chamber - easy via the injector hole. I think the glow plug hole would be too small and anyway it only goes into the pre-comustion chamber.

 

I think it would take some fiddling to get the scope through the throat into the cylinder even it the throat is large enough..

Edited May 30, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[chopperit]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure how you would get a typical borescope into the cylinder. Into the pre-combustion chamber - easy via the injector hole. I think the glow plug hole would be too small and anyway it only goes into the pre-comustion chamber.

 

I think it would take some fiddling to get the scope through the throat into the cylinder even it the throat is large enough..

 

sick of pepole making comments they know SFAA

 

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[Tony Brooks]

So the website does not give prices as far as I can see and are keen to give "demonstrations" so one can surmise that means expensive and we want to get a salesman in your door.

 

I very much doubt the 6 mm pen would go through the throat but I agree the smaller ones will BUT what if they do find something wrong, how will that be rectified. The engine would need stripping and for the vast majority of cases a compression and oil pressure tests would have indicated a fault. The engine will still need stripping.

 

We are talking tiny little engines here, not monsters as found in industry and commercial shipping etc. and the question is would the use of sucha  device save the customer/engineer any many and make the purchase economically sensible. Without a price we will not know. I suspect not.

[chopperit]

23 hours ago, Bod said:

Change piston rings, without removing pistons.

How is this done?

 

Bod

Sorry to many idiots on this site board now !!!

 

 

 

Hi Bod good question the first remark is not meant for you it's for the space cadet's  that no SFA 

 

you unbolt the bearings push the conrod up the bore then remove the rings replace the rings push the piston back in to place bolt the bearing back up, job  done, position remains in the block,  however if your going to remove the rings without removing the head then you would have to remove the crank , I would never do this.

[dor]

22 minutes ago, chopperit said:

Sorry to many idiots on this site board now !!!

 

 

 

Hi Bod good question the first remark is not meant for you it's for the space cadet's  that no SFA 

 

you unbolt the bearings push the conrod up the bore then remove the rings replace the rings push the piston back in to place bolt the bearing back up, job  done, position remains in the block,  however if your going to remove the rings without removing the head then you would have to remove the crank , I would never do this.

So you do remove the pistons!  Of course you would do it this way, providing th big end will fit inside the bore. On many, particularly  older engines, you can't do this and as a result can't withdraw the piston sufficiently to get to all the rings.

But what do I know, I've only been taking engines to bits for nearly sixty years.

[Boater Sam]

Odd how the semi literate become abusive when asked to explain their strange views. Your foul language is not appreciated, my wife reads this forum as I am sure do other females, please desist and reserve your potty mouth for elsewhere.

[chopperit]

4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Odd how the semi literate become abusive when asked to explain their strange views. Your foul language is not appreciated, my wife reads this forum as I am sure do other females, please desist and reserve your potty mouth for elsewhere.

ANOTHER SPACE CADET STRANGE VIEWS TELL ME  WHAT IS STRANGE IN FACT DOT BOTHER!

[WotEver]

Chopperit, this is a family forum. Please watch your language, there’s no need for it. 

[chopperit]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Chopperit, this is a family forum. Please watch your language, there’s no need for it. 

well, that explains a lot, didn't realize they were children, ive blocked the idiots now I won't be talking about anything to do with engines again because quite frankly I may as well be talking to a brick wall, 

[bizzard]

On certain older engines the pistons could be withdrawn from the bottom of the bore without removing the crankshaft. The old pre war design Ford 8 s/v engines for example but on the 10 hp version you couldn't .And I think you could on the old prewar 2 main bearing Austin 7 and Morris 8 engine too, but can't quite remember.  I can't think of any vehicle engine that you can't withdraw the con rods up through the bores, apart of course from certain engines with built up crankshafts, complete with there built on conrods with no removable big end caps, common on certain air cooled engines like in old Citroens and motorbike engines.

I once worked on a vintage 1925 3 litre Red label Bentley, these had a fixed cylinder head, a complete solid block and head all cast in one. You had to unbolt the block from the crankcase and lift it up clear to leave the pistons and conrods behind on the crankshaft.

[RLWP]

31 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I can't think of any vehicle engine that you can't withdraw the con rods up through the bores

BMC 1.5

[chopperit]

31 minutes ago, bizzard said:

On certain older engines the pistons could be withdrawn from the bottom of the bore without removing the crankshaft. The old pre war design Ford 8 s/v engines for example but on the 10 hp version you couldn't .And I think you could on the old prewar 2 main bearing Austin 7 and Morris 8 engine too, but can't quite remember.  I can't think of any vehicle engine that you can't withdraw the con rods up through the bores, apart of course from certain engines with built up crankshafts, complete with there built on conrods with no removable big end caps, common on certain air cooled engines like in old Citroens and motorbike engines.

I once worked on a vintage 1925 3 litre Red label Bentley, these had a fixed cylinder head, a complete solid block and head all cast in one. You had to unbolt the block from the crankcase and lift it up clear to leave the pistons and conrods behind on the crankshaft.

Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about, yes most early air-cooled engines are like that but then you're talking the Holy Grail like the early Porsche 365 crank and rods are one german engineering at its best let's all take a bow, we will never see it again in our lifetime.

[Gareth E]

My understanding is that the Mitubishi engine is a single block, rather than having a removable barrel. Therefore the only way to get to the piston rings is to remove the pistons, having removed the sump.

 

A compression test was done. This is testing my memory but seem to recall that the standard was 6-700 (whatever that is, psi? I don't know). One cylinder was at 350 the other under 200.

 

Happy to be corrected on the first paragraph if I'm talking rubbish, it was what I was told.

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, Gareth E said:

My understanding is that the Mitubishi engine is a single block, rather than having a removable barrel. Therefore the only way to get to the piston rings is to remove the pistons, having removed the sump.

 

A compression test was done. This is testing my memory but seem to recall that the standard was 6-700 (whatever that is, psi? I don't know). One cylinder was at 350 the other under 200.

 

Happy to be corrected on the first paragraph if I'm talking rubbish, it was what I was told.

I think 600psi is a bit high but the more than 10% difference between a whole set of low compressions is enough to indicate a strip down is required. Shoving a scope down the injector hole would not add anything useful to that.

 

It is a single block and crankcase cast in one piece and I think taking the engine out rather than trying to get the sump off and dealing with con rods in situ is likely to be the least costly and best option. I would hate to try torquing the big end nuts/bolts up with the engine still in the boat, it would be even worse if they used locktabs.

[chopperit]

On 31/05/2018 at 17:18, Tony Brooks said:

I think 600psi is a bit high but the more than 10% difference between a whole set of low compressions is enough to indicate a strip down is required. Shoving a scope down the injector hole would not add anything useful to that.

 

It is a single block and crankcase cast in one piece and I think taking the engine out rather than trying to get the sump off and dealing with con rods in situ is likely to be the least costly and best option. I would hate to try torquing the big end nuts/bolts up with the engine still in the boat, it would be even worse if they used locktabs.

if people would read what i put then you will see that i talked about having a CT done first , the last thing you want to be doing is taking an engine out that is the last resort