Anyone tried a kildwick compost loo?

[adam1uk]

8 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Yours and previous similar comments ha made me realise that that is precisely what will  happen. The majority of folks asking are new CCers who probably don't have any affinity for their environment in general or canals in particular. Rubbish disposal is at best poorly provided and Councils waste management is just not set up to deal with human waste - even where they have a cesspit emptying service. The thought of some poor lorry driver driving over bags of ordure as he dumps his load (sic!) at the landfill site fills me with horror. Dumping even small (relatively) quantities of urine into a hedgerow or worse - into a waterway reduces 'us' into a third world country.

Should I / we be concerned or are just being a bit prissy?

Discuss.  

I suspect this post just illustrates that you've never seen the output of a composting loo.  What you're left with after just a couple of months is a dry crumbly peat-like substance, that you'd be hard pressed to identify if you didn't know what it was.  Double bagging and putting it in the bin is exactly what the CRT advice is.

As for the urine, you'd think no-one ever went to pee in the hedge while on a long walk -- or even, heaven forbid, to save their loo tank.  And don't forget there are millions of cows and sheep peeing all over the countryside all the time.  Anyway, and others have pointed out, there are plenty of Elsan stations, so it's not difficult to empty the urine in those.

[Robbo]

31 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

I suspect this post just illustrates that you've never seen the output of a composting loo.  What you're left with after just a couple of months is a dry crumbly peat-like substance, that you'd be hard pressed to identify if you didn't know what it was.  Double bagging and putting it in the bin is exactly what the CRT advice is.

It won't be left for a couple of months tho, it will be disposed of as soon as the bucket/bag gets full, which will have freshly made poo in it.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Robbo

[OldGoat]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I suggest instead of moaning and hitting the nail directly on the head re newbies fitting " Composting " bogs? you spend your spare time designing something better? Maybe you could design a thing and call it a sewage system and maybe a toilet that has like a large briefcase fitted to it than can be removed in a matter of seconds and disposed of in the sewage system at a set of points throughout the country. You could name them " Elsan " points or something and perhaps " Cassette " or " Porta Bog " for the toilet?

Tim - I'm not moaning - there clearly is a demand for such devices, but the infrastructure is just not set up for disposal of the output.

[MtB]

Given it turns out to be legal to put human excrement straight into the crt bins and this seems likely to be what most composting bog owners will eventually develop the habit of doing,  why not cut out the huge expense of the supposedly composting toilet and shit straight into a bag and put it in the bin?

[OldGoat]

18 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It won't be left for a couple of months tho, it will be disposed of as soon as the bucket/bag gets full, which will have freshly made poo in it.

That's my concern - and was hinted at in the first post that I quoted. Disposing of the liquid waste in an elsan point or even a pub loo is OK, but with more not-moving-very-often craft coming onto the system, I can see some hygene challenges 

[Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Given it turns out to be legal to put human excrement straight into the crt bins and this seems likely to be what most composting bog owners will eventually develop the habit of doing,  why not cut out the huge expense of the supposedly composting toilet and shit straight into a bag and put it in the bin?

The cheap composting loos bucket you can add the "liner", so basically you are just crapping in a bag and putting in the bin.     Perhaps we can use the doggy doo disposal bins.

[tree monkey]

2 hours ago, Robbo said:

Most of these toilet's mentioned are not really composting toilets, the end output isn't compost!

This^, some peeps do compost properly mainly those with a mooring or access to a land based spot as far as I can see but drying poo and leaving in a sealed box isn't composting, however much mixing with sawdust and stiring is involved. 

Compost bogs are a great idea if living land based off grid and I am sure can be done as well whilst living on a boat but it takes more than drying the poo out and burying under a hedge.

 

49 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It won't be left for a couple of months tho, it will be disposed of as soon as the bucket/bag gets full, which will have freshly made poo in it.

And it still will only be a bucket of dried out poo

[Bargebuilder]

It is surprising what is actually legal and acceptable to the river authorities.

The journalist Steve Haywood from the publication Canal Boat and Tillergraph did some research directly with the Environment Agency and this is an extract from his article:

"Finally, I got confirmation that boats could empty their sea toilets on not just the Great Ouse, and the Medway, but on the tributaries of the Great Ouse and the river Nene as well. The answer to my suggestion of emptying my cassette over the side was circumspect. ‘The regulations don’t specify what sort of toilet is permissible, However, if a boater is discharging materials/chemicals that could potentially cause pollution and kill fish it would be an offence against the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975, Section 4(1)."

It would appear that tipping Elsan Blue into these rivers is illegal, but providing you don't use it, well...........

 

[frahkn]

2 hours ago, Robbo said:

You'll need quite a few boxes to leave for 6 months even for just one person using it!    Majority of these loos the contents will be just bagged up and shoved in the bin to be put in landfill, whilst the liquid part will be just outed into the canal or hedge.   People are just using them because its easier emptying, not because of some green cause composting rose crap.

This has been said a few times but I'm not sure it's correct.

I posted the following on a similar thread any no-one came back to argue with it.

I don’t follow this “huge volumes of shit” argument. I give you these figures and invite you to pull them apart.
If I give up a third of my forward hold I can fit a plastic kitchen bin measuring 34cm x 34cm x 100cm in it (I have one there at the moment).
This has an internal volume of say 100,000 cc.
The average volume of a persons stool is 130 cc per day (**). Add to this, a further 130 cc of coconut fibre (or whatever).
So even if there is no volume loss while in the toilet (unlikely given that there is a constant air draft and stool is 90% water) the total daily volume of “product’ will be  260 cc per person per day.
Therefore my kitchen bin can hold 380 days worth of product.
 
** Stool patterns of healthy adult males by Robert C Rendtorff Sc, D, M.D. and Mark Kashgarian M.D.  Tennessee College of Medicine.
 

I don't have a composting toilet but I am thinking of replacing my macerator pump-out with one next year. I would not do it unless I can truly compost the output and take it home to my garden compost bin (say) once a year.

Frank.

[Bargebuilder]

2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Dumping even small (relatively) quantities of urine into a waterway reduces 'us' into a third world country.

Like France, where there are 5000 miles of navigable waterways and at the last count (2015) there were just 40 pump-out stations.

It is frowned upon to 'flush' into marinas and harbours, but a blind eye is turned in most other places. Most inland vessels do indeed still 'flush' directly into the canal. 

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

Like France, where there are 5000 miles of navigable waterways and at the last count (2015) there were just 40 pump-out stations.

It is frowned upon to 'flush' into marinas and harbours, but a blind eye is turned in most other places. Most inland vessels do indeed still 'flush' directly into the canal. 

Just because the French do it.......

- anyway many / a lot of their canals  are canalised rivers with more flushing capability and they're all broad - so more water flowing.

How many boats do they have registered?

[AllanC]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

The cheap composting loos bucket you can add the "liner", so basically you are just crapping in a bag and putting in the bin.     Perhaps we can use the doggy doo disposal bins.

Not a bad idea if they were plentiful on the cut. But on a more serious note, how do dog owners deal with their daily collections of poo bags when boating?

[haggis]

11 minutes ago, AllanC said:

Not a bad idea if they were plentiful on the cut. But on a more serious note, how do dog owners deal with their daily collections of poo bags when boating?

I keep the full poo bags on the front desk till I find a poo bin. There seem to be plenty canal side so o never have many bags to get rid of 

Haggis 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, AllanC said:

Not a bad idea if they were plentiful on the cut. But on a more serious note, how do dog owners deal with their daily collections of poo bags when boating?

I put mine into a tupperware container (box not boat ) and keep them until we find a poo bin.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

I put mine into a tupperware container (box not boat ) and keep them until we find a poo bin.

Don't get it mixed up with your packed lunch

[AllanC]

30 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I put mine into a tupperware container (box not boat ) and keep them until we find a poo bin.

Well that's not so bad then. I imagine there are poo bins at most locks and bridges so you wouldn't have to travel far to find one. Hopefully they don't get abused like they do here and get emptied regularly.

My hound leaves a large deposit at least 3 times a day, so it would mount up quickly if I couldn't find a disposal point.

[mrsmelly]

4 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Tim - I'm not moaning - there clearly is a demand for such devices, but the infrastructure is just not set up for disposal of the output.

It was  wind up you old goat  read it again.

2 hours ago, AllanC said:

Not a bad idea if they were plentiful on the cut. But on a more serious note, how do dog owners deal with their daily collections of poo bags when boating?

I put ours in plastic bags and throw them up in a tree.

[AllanC]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

It was  wind up you old goat  read it again.

I put ours in plastic bags and throw them up in a tree.

Well can you start using more colourful bags. Christmas is coming.

[OldGoat]

28 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

It was  wind up you old goat  read it again.

I put ours in plastic bags and throw them up in a tree.

Well, you certainly got me ticking away.... Out of character for Tim, I thought......

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Well, you certainly got me ticking away.... Out of character for Tim, I thought......

You know me better than that  I will be out and about all next year ont boat so we will have beer? or Tea

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

You know me better than that  I will be out and about all next year ont boat so we will have beer? or Tea

That would be nice  - our first meeting was somewhat short. Just now recovering from a boiler (?) tube replacement (the nearest I can get in mechanical terms) so haven't been on the water all summer and some of the autumn as well. At least the boat is being looked after.

So provided the EA doesn't completely wreck the Thames I should be around 'later'

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Yours and previous similar comments ha made me realise that that is precisely what will  happen. The majority of folks asking are new CCers who probably don't have any affinity for their environment in general or canals in particular. Rubbish disposal is at best poorly provided and Councils waste management is just not set up to deal with human waste - even where they have a cesspit emptying service. The thought of some poor lorry driver driving over bags of ordure as he dumps his load (sic!) at the landfill site fills me with horror. Dumping even small (relatively) quantities of urine into a hedgerow or worse - into a waterway reduces 'us' into a third world country.

Should I / we be concerned or are just being a bit prissy?

Discuss.  

Like this you mean http://www.narrowboatworld.com/10156-a-wide-awakening

[OldGoat]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Like this you mean http://www.narrowboatworld.com/10156-a-wide-awakening

Pecisely - not often I agree with or read NB World, but....

[peterboat]

I have read through the last couple of days crap and wonder how you lot all manage I have 2 bins of poo on the bank with composting powder in them my 3rd bin is in the loo this is my output from the last 7 months or so!

However I see the same people every couple of days carrying those heavy cassettes to the loo to empty them come back with a bad back and odour de liquid poo Such hard work still if you all want to be stupid enough to like that system who am to stop you?

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have read through the last couple of days crap and wonder how you lot all manage I have 2 bins of poo on the bank with composting powder in them my 3rd bin is in the loo this is my output from the last 7 months or so!

However I see the same people every couple of days carrying those heavy cassettes to the loo to empty them come back with a bad back and odour de liquid poo Such hard work still if you all want to be stupid enough to like that system who am to stop you?

Ahh now your talking  I think composting bogs are probably good for people not on mains sewage etc or a smallholding etc with proper space to put the buckets to compostificate or as you do with a place on the bank. Trouble is too many are supposedly ccing  or static moorers with no where to let the stuff compostificise so in reality they are not composting toilets?