'Clearing' of Visitor Moorings?

[pearley]

Although I'm no longer a member of the RBOA they kindly still send me the magazine. Below is a report from the latest issue. I'm not sure if the word 'clearing' came from them or CRT.

 

Am I just being thin skinned?

 

Association of Lea Cruising Clubs (ALCC)

 

In line with our ongoing positive relationship with ALCC,

I attended a meeting during the evening of Tuesday 13th

September. Broxbourne Cruising Club, Lea & Stort

Cruising Club and Rammey Marsh Cruising Club were all

represented. Sam Thomas and Sorwar Ahmed, both from

CRT, also attended.

 

Sorwar presented an update on the development of the

London Mooring Strategy, and once again practically the

whole meeting was taken up with the cruising clubs concerns

over the volume (and sometimes poor standard) of boats that

now populate visitor and casual moorings along much of

the two rivers. As stated in my earlier reports, the clubs are

concerned at not being able to reliably arrange club member

cruises due to this volume.

 

After considerable debate, it was agreed that CRT will look

at the possibility of temporarily clearing (other) boats from

public moorings on a number of pre-arranged dates/locations

throughout the year to enable ALCC to then allocate the same

dates/locations to its member clubs for their cruise-outs, so

as to help overcome this problem.

[Athy]

Sounds reasonable - but where will these boats go once they have been cleared from the visitor moorings? Any which have overstayed deserve to be moved on, of course, that's the rule - but what about those which haven't?

[nicknorman]

Sounds reasonable - but where will these boats go once they have been cleared from the visitor moorings? Any which have overstayed deserve to be moved on, of course, that's the rule - but what about those which haven't?

 

But this sort of thing does happen routinely at other places, eg central Birmingham, Braunston and Stoke Bruerne, so as a concept it is nothing new. It is just the overall congestion in the area in question that makes it contentious.

 

It is the nub of the problem that there are so many boats wanting to use them just to live on, that it is very hard for anyone who actually wants to cruise, to do so.

Edited November 23, 2016 by nicknorman

[Tim Lewis]

Although I'm no longer a member of the RBOA they kindly still send me the magazine. Below is a report from the latest issue. I'm not sure if the word 'clearing' came from them or CRT.

 

Am I just being thin skinned?

 

Association of Lea Cruising Clubs (ALCC)

 

In line with our ongoing positive relationship with ALCC,

I attended a meeting during the evening of Tuesday 13th

September. Broxbourne Cruising Club, Lea & Stort

Cruising Club and Rammey Marsh Cruising Club were all

represented. Sam Thomas and Sorwar Ahmed, both from

CRT, also attended.

 

Sorwar presented an update on the development of the

London Mooring Strategy, and once again practically the

whole meeting was taken up with the cruising clubs concerns

over the volume (and sometimes poor standard) of boats that

now populate visitor and casual moorings along much of

the two rivers. As stated in my earlier reports, the clubs are

concerned at not being able to reliably arrange club member

cruises due to this volume.

 

After considerable debate, it was agreed that CRT will look

at the possibility of temporarily clearing (other) boats from

public moorings on a number of pre-arranged dates/locations

throughout the year to enable ALCC to then allocate the same

dates/locations to its member clubs for their cruise-outs, so

as to help overcome this problem.

 

Happens at Canalway Cavalcade, and most other boat rallies every year!

 

Tum

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Sounds reasonable - but where will these boats go once they have been cleared from the visitor moorings? Any which have overstayed deserve to be moved on, of course, that's the rule - but what about those which haven't?

I would have thought they could go on the Cruising Club moorings which would be unused ...

[Athy]

I would have thought they could go on the Cruising Club moorings which would be unused ...

Good idea - if the Cruising Club will agree. I assume their moorings are somewhere up the Lea & Stort Navigation?

 

Happens at Canalway Cavalcade, and most other boat rallies every year!

 

Tum

Yes, Tum (?), but, while that's comparable in theory it probably isn't comparable in practice. For example, it happens at Shackerstone each year - but the Shack. moorings aren't habitually crammed with boats moored nose to tail and two abreast, as I gather is common in parts of London.

[Tim Lewis]

Good idea - if the Cruising Club will agree. I assume their moorings are somewhere up the Lea & Stort Navigation?

Yes, Tum (?), but, while that's comparable in theory it probably isn't comparable in practice. For example, it happens at Shackerstone each year - but the Shack. moorings aren't habitually crammed with boats moored nose to tail and two abreast, as I gather is common in parts of London.

 

For Cavalcade about 80 boats have to move for the event.

 

Tim

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I would have thought they could go on the Cruising Club moorings which would be unused ...

Sorry, but I should have used an emoticon - the post was somewhat tongue in cheek.

[ditchcrawler]

Sorry, but I should have used an emoticon - the post was somewhat tongue in cheek.

I thought it was a good idea

[Geo]

Would this be for a day, or would they want all the VMs clear for the week or whatever it is of their cruise?

 

How often each year would they want this done. Most other places are only once a year.

[ditchcrawler]

Also like all of Braunston both before and after the event.

[b0atman]

I will email CRT of my plans for 2017 so that reserved moorings will be in place for me .

I do not know the area but why should boat clubs expect preferential service over other boaters ?

organised events are a different matter i.e crick and floating trader markets.

[john6767]

I will email CRT of my plans for 2017 so that reserved moorings will be in place for me .

I do not know the area but why should boat clubs expect preferential service over other boaters ?

organised events are a different matter i.e crick and floating trader markets.

My thought too. Why should clubs get preference over individual boaters in the use of visitor moorings, does not seem fair to me.

[KevMc]

My thought too. Why should clubs get preference over individual boaters in the use of visitor moorings, does not seem fair to me.

The OP posted :

 

"After considerable debate, it was agreed that CRT will look at the possibility of temporarily clearing (other) boats from public moorings on a number of pre-arranged dates/locations throughout the year to enable ALCC to then allocate the same dates/locations to its member clubs for their cruise-outs, so as to help overcome this problem."

 

Now if I was representing CRT and there had been considerable debate I might just have said something similar cos it doesn't commit them to actually doing anything ... just looking into a possibility of doing something.... then after due consideration (maybe even after reading this thread) they can decide it just ain't going to happen. But maybe I'm just an old cynic.

[Victor Vectis]

My thought too. Why should clubs get preference over individual boaters in the use of visitor moorings, does not seem fair to me.

Hear hear.

 

And I don't like this either:

 

"the cruising clubs concerns over the volume (and sometimes poor standard) of boats that now populate visitor and casual moorings along much of the two rivers."

 

Judgemental and a good example of shinyboateritis at it's worse.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Victor Vectis

[cheshire~rose]

My thought too. Why should clubs get preference over individual boaters in the use of visitor moorings, does not seem fair to me.

 

I don't think it is specifically boat clubs that do - any organised event can apply for mooring to be cleared for their dates. It does not necessarily mean they will get it.

 

I suspect boat clubs tend to do more organised events than individual boaters?

 

Many boat clubs actually put a great deal back, both into the CRT coffers by their moorings or by taking care of the canal in their locality. That is not to say that private individual boaters don't do the same of course but when these things are done by a group the results of their efforts tend to get noticed more.

 

I am sure if CWDF were to apply for similar for a banter we would get the same sort of consideration. It is just that we tend to be far less organised and most people enjoy the fluidity of banters not being too organised ......

 

.......and who would we appoint as harbour master?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

I don't think it is specifically boat clubs that do - any organised event can apply for mooring to be cleared for their dates. It does not necessarily mean they will get it.

 

I suspect boat clubs tend to do more organised events than individual boaters?

 

Many boat clubs actually put a great deal back, both into the CRT coffers by their moorings or by taking care of the canal in their locality. That is not to say that private individual boaters don't do the same of course but when these things are done by a group the results of their efforts tend to get noticed more.

 

I am sure if CWDF were to apply for similar for a banter we would get the same sort of consideration. It is just that we tend to be far less organised and most people enjoy the fluidity of banters not being too organised ......

 

.......and who would we appoint as harbour master?

How about that guy in Liverpool?

[matty40s]

My thought too. Why should clubs get preference over individual boaters in the use of visitor moorings, does not seem fair to me.

When BW under Salty(sic) Ashes project, in 2011 tried to introduce some ridiculous guidelines into the Lee and Stort without any planning or evidence, the Boaters en masse worked together to get the ridiculous plans withdrawn.

As a swiftly pulled together group which cemented London Boaters as a reasonable but challenging force, not only did they find that BW had no factual stats for their project, they had done no groundwork into the likely impact on the river or water supply, they also had no record of any complaints about navigational difficulties, moorings issues or anything else which might have triggered the "project".

The London Boaters worked over the consultation period (and had to force an extension to meet the minimum legal requirement allowed as BW tried to slip it in when nobody was watching).

LondonBoaters contacted all impacted waterway users along with an environmental consultant, fishermen, canoe clubs, cruising clubs, walkers, cyclists,marinas and even the local police were canvassed for opinions.

Plans to make sure the users of the Lee and Stort were listened to and concerns were actioned were drawn up.

The local cruising clubs agreed to give dates of BBQs at certain locations so that LB would make sure the moorings were clear for Cruising Club events.

For many years, the cruising clubs were the only users of the L&S other than a few liveaboards, this has obviously changed, however, LB tried to help the CC functions continue, along with recommending no movement when rowing events were on etc.

These were all presented to BW

 

The Sally Ash plans were dropped with no fanfare.

She lost at the first public meeting at Stanstead Abbots, where she lost control and Damien Kemp had to take over.

 

 

 

I am sure if CWDF were to apply for similar for a banter we would get the same sort of consideration. It is just that we tend to be far less organised and most people enjoy the fluidity of banters not being too organised ......

 

.......and who would we appoint as harbour master?

We did 2013, thanks to Cloggy , Gnossal VM had official reserved for a CWDF banter notices for a good length, we filled it and more.

 

CRT DO need challenging as BW did before them, otherwise they will do as they see fit, introduce something under the guise of a good day to bury bad news.

 

and yes, I was the one who found the 2 week consultation notice stuck to my boat above Tottenham Lock in early 2011 and got the ball rolling.

Edited November 23, 2016 by matty40s

[john6767]

I don't think it is specifically boat clubs that do - any organised event can apply for mooring to be cleared for their dates. It does not necessarily mean they will get it.

 

I suspect boat clubs tend to do more organised events than individual boaters?

 

Many boat clubs actually put a great deal back, both into the CRT coffers by their moorings or by taking care of the canal in their locality. That is not to say that private individual boaters don't do the same of course but when these things are done by a group the results of their efforts tend to get noticed more.

 

I am sure if CWDF were to apply for similar for a banter we would get the same sort of consideration. It is just that we tend to be far less organised and most people enjoy the fluidity of banters not being too organised ......

 

.......and who would we appoint as harbour master?

The point being that everyone pays the same licence fee, and therefore should have the same consideration in the use of visitor moorings, on rivers they are scarce enough. I don't see a club going for an outing is really the same thing as say the historic rally at Braunston.

 

If the boat clubs put effort back in, then that is great and to be commended, but it is volenteering, they should not expect to get anything back for that.

[cheshire~rose]

The point being that everyone pays the same licence fee, and therefore should have the same consideration in the use of visitor moorings, on rivers they are scarce enough. I don't see a club going for an outing is really the same thing as say the historic rally at Braunston.

 

If the boat clubs put effort back in, then that is great and to be commended, but it is volenteering, they should not expect to get anything back for that.

 

Why don't you see it as being the same thing?

 

What is the difference? Braunston is a gathering of like minded folks with historic boats putting on a display of canal heritage.

 

Why is a club outing not the same thing? I am not saying that ALL club outings are but why are you so willing to dismiss a club outing as not being something significant to the people involved?

 

Our club has an outing every year - it is very well attended and even though we have to raft up on the tiny bit of mooring available (which happens to be a lock landing) and use planks to get to the towpath the further away you get we have not needed to ask CRT to secure the mooring for us - because there isn't one and if it is a VERY busy day on the canal then we might see one other boat come through (who we work through the lock with some cheerful banter) I would like to think that if we needed to book the mooring for this event which is now part of the heritage of our canal then we would get it without problem but there seems to be a suggestion that a club outing is nothing important.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67388&hl=whitsunday

 

I have attended 3 of these now and look forward to next years event. Please don't tar all club outings with the same brush

[john6767]

Why don't you see it as being the same thing?

 

What is the difference? Braunston is a gathering of like minded folks with historic boats putting on a display of canal heritage.

 

Why is a club outing not the same thing? I am not saying that ALL club outings are but why are you so willing to dismiss a club outing as not being something significant to the people involved?

 

Our club has an outing every year - it is very well attended and even though we have to raft up on the tiny bit of mooring available (which happens to be a lock landing) and use planks to get to the towpath the further away you get we have not needed to ask CRT to secure the mooring for us - because there isn't one and if it is a VERY busy day on the canal then we might see one other boat come through (who we work through the lock with some cheerful banter) I would like to think that if we needed to book the mooring for this event which is now part of the heritage of our canal then we would get it without problem but there seems to be a suggestion that a club outing is nothing important.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67388&hl=whitsunday

 

I have attended 3 of these now and look forward to next years event. Please don't tar all club outings with the same brush

 

Braunston is a public even that if I am not mistaken raises money for charity. It is more than a group of friends getting together for their own entertainment. The two types of use seem totally different to me.

[cheshire~rose]

I don't understand where you get the idea of it being a group of friends getting together?

 

I have met a number of people for the first time at that club event. They might be friends now but they weren't when I met them.

It is public, there are no gates with tickets on, if people want pie then they have to buy a ticket in advance to get it but it has been known for people passing on the towpath to join in.

 

Yes the two events differ drastically in size but has Barunston always been the size it is now? I don't know perhaps someone can enlighten me?

 

Is it size that makes the difference then?

 

You are now suggesting that the fact that money is raised for charity that makes a difference?

I have not seen that mentioned anywhere but most boat clubs do a great deal to raise money for charities - just because the evnt is not as big as Branston and so the revenue raised might not be as great does that mean it should be dismissed?

[Jerra]

My problem with moorings being reserved is nothing to do with who has reserved them but when they are reserved. On a number of occasions I have passed long lengths of towpath with signs saying no mooring reserved for XYZ and you know they event isn't for a number of days.

 

If the area must be reserved send somebody out say 24 hours before preferably less rather than 2 or 3 days. It might be reasonable to reserve a mooring for say a weekend event but not from Wednesday and then the signs not taken in for a few days after.

 

Just my opinion other opinions are available.

[cheshire~rose]

I agree Jerra

 

If an event is planned for Saturday and Sunday then it is fair to reserve moorings from Friday to Monday and it is also fair that signs stating they are reserved are in place well in advance so that anyone tying there beforehand knows they are going to have to move by a certain date but reserving moorings for days on end is not fair

[furnessvale]

My problem with moorings being reserved is nothing to do with who has reserved them but when they are reserved. On a number of occasions I have passed long lengths of towpath with signs saying no mooring reserved for XYZ and you know they event isn't for a number of days.

 

If the area must be reserved send somebody out say 24 hours before preferably less rather than 2 or 3 days. It might be reasonable to reserve a mooring for say a weekend event but not from Wednesday and then the signs not taken in for a few days after.

 

Just my opinion other opinions are available.

The signs I have seen are normally put out well in advance but have operative dates much closer to the actual event.

 

IMO this is essential, as any innocent boater mooring up where there are no signs displayed, has a reasonable expectation of being able to remain there unmolested for the full duration permitted on that mooring.

 

In some locations this could be 14 days therefore a notice restricting use of that mooring needs to be in place 14+ days in advance.

 

George ex nb Alton retired